KingOfAll_Tyrants

Pimped out aquariums, a forum sponsor, does this as well. Pm them. I’ve worked with them before, but have not bought a product from them. Yet.

Agreed, the more I learn about this fish the less and less I think it should be available for sale (obligate Acropora eater?), save by specific request of someone who knows what there getting into. (how to make a reasonable "someone who knows" standard is a harder issue, especially in an open market industry) Moving way off topic..... As far as wild vs. captive livestock, I think we're nearing a major inflection point. Biota is now selling captive bred (presumably maricultured: bred in pens in the inshore lagoons of Palau) yellow tangs for $100. Pacific East Aquaculture, a sponsor, appears to have them in stock. This comes after the Kona fishery in Hawaii is closed (the only place in the world where they breed in large numbers), and Hawaii-origin yellow tangs available for sale now come from other (from what I hear much less productive) parts of Big Island or from (also less productive) other islands. More thinking aloud: Do we think now is a time to work to make captive bred yellow tangs the norm? I would say "not necessarily". As mentioned elsewhere, there is no *catch limit* (vice court injunction functionally banning collection) for yellow tangs in Hawaii, but at the same time population surveys going back to the late 70s state that yellow tang populations on the Kona coast have are in decline. (in fact the surveys are opposite, though the anti-aquarium fanatics naturally dispute the surveys) At the same time, wild collection, with (enforced) sustainable catch limits, can be very environmentally friendly compared to aquaculture in completely artificial cultivation (like ORA does), since taking a limited number of wild juvenile fish has almost no inherent environmental impact compared to the power, seawater, waste disposal, etc. you'd need to breed fish in completely artificial conditions. [this is especially true for species like the Yellow tang which have IIRC a month+ long pelagic state] That being said, buying captive bred livestock always is best, after a certain collection volume is reached, IMO. Are we willing to advocate, for instance, that the Hawaii government adopt a perhaps a 50,000 fish per year catch limit for yellow tangs? (1/4 the current catch rate, IIRC) This would in many ways be giving in to some degree to for the fishes, etc.'s lobbying and litigation campaign. The remainder of demand would be filled by Biota and other breeders, probably (possibly?) at a $90/fish price. I suppose such a thing might be possible if a catch limit were enforced, and the big distributors (e.g. Quality Marine) supported it. (emphasis on *might*, in a frankly un-market economy industrial organization) Would we then be content that price? This would make the yellow tang basically a beginner unfriendly fish. (mind you, I might support that, in that IMO they should not be in average size 60 gallon and smaller standard sized tanks, and I can't fathom why they are so commonly available compared to even kole, naso, or convict tangs - beyond being easy to collect) Anyway, just thoughts. Happy New Year!

Ah, I see your point. Yeah, looking at this this supposedly eats acros only. Honestly, I'd guess these were leftovers from a public aquarium order or something like that. That also might explain the price - a relative fire sale. Just thinking aloud, I could understand your position from a collection standpoint. Something like this should not be collected save for specific orders from someone who knows how to take care of them. Not selling fish that can't be maintained in the average (say 20-50gallon) tank, and special ordering everything else, would be an interesting concept, though I don't know how viable it would be in an industry predominantly, to my understanding, geared around "pushing livestock"*. So once it's in the inventory it'll probably be treated like anything else. :( At least Liveaquaria gives some sort of warning (similar to how they have a 100gal minimum tank size for yellow tangs, or admittedly somewhat inadequate warnings about mandarin diets), whereas I think there are plenty of fish we see in LFS' that should only be in specialized or 75+ gallon tanks. * I wouldn't mind an alternate model. Have captive bred examples of the top 20 or so nano-to-medium sized fish - clowns, cardinals, dottybacks, firefish, etc., and special order more exotic things airfreighted directly from the collector - for admittedly a substantial per-fish fee, which I think would be the killer for such an industry model.

Well, they do give an upfront warning. That is about all you can do.

Lots of good posts and thoughts here. I'll directly answer the OP: If I wanted to entertain those folks arguments, I'd ask them if they could differentiate between an Acropora, Montipora, Pocillopora or Sinulara - without google or a guide book. Have they grown any of those species? When they failed, why did they fail, and what did they try to do better? What could cause that kind of failure on at least a part of an island's coral reefs? What could be done to stop such failure on an island or larger basis?

My WAG: yes. Hawkfish is quite small and would be an easy meal. Also, note that the moray comes from rocky areas of shallow waters (intertidal zones, reef rocks, patch reefs, etc.), while the hawkfish lives on gorgonians and black corals in the deeper portions of your typical reef slope (10-100m darker, more constant flow, etc.). They would not be found together naturally in the wild, I think.

Thanks for posting all of these details. Unfortunately, I was unwell this weekend and unable to go. :( I hope someone else went?

Excellent. Thanks! I hope to go.

I saw this in the "News" forum, but could not find any further info on this anywhere (when I bring up the calendar it's blank). Does anyone have further info on this?

They ship to our area for $10, IIRC. And they’re a sponsor.

Hello, I'm interested in a few products on your website (we can discuss further details by PM). I live near Rosslyn and I'd like to pick up in person. Is that possible? Thanks!

Aha. Sorry, should have been more specific, and accounted for the same size pump. CP 90 (the 3000-ish gah jebao. Not current generation, I believe) is $85, versus Icecap 3k’s $160, and Maxspect 250’s $160 pump only. The Icecap comes with a controller, the Maxspect does not, which costs over $100 more. But the maxspect's controller is quite advanced; highly recommended (especially if you use a second pump) unless you want to hook to the apex. From my understanding, the Icecap's is not as advanced, but still much more advanced than the Jebaos. The Jebao only has three settings, and a limited amount of control of the settings. Your call of course on how valuable that is. IMO, it's a lot, as a Maxspect and Jebao (PP4) owner. I'm a big believer in varying the amount of flow you have throughout the day. But of course I don't have anywhere near the experience to say "it's better for the corals" or anything like that. https://www.amazon.com/Jebao-CP-90-Cross-Maker-Controller/dp/B07B6BMCQ9/ref=asc_df_B07B6BMCQ9/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=242166465819&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9766883529619705023&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9016792&hvtargid=aud-465161895813:pla-464847831348&psc=1#featureBulletsAndDetailBullets_secondary_view_div_1536457113397 https://www.saltwateraquarium.com/3k-gyre-generation-aquarium-flow-pump-icecap/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw5s3cBRCAARIsAB8ZjU2xU0kSmHlSUWQYzpOmZkj2qyCl94aKu-iPw1Rp6kYJwYZjKCcE61UaApj8EALw_wcB https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/xf250-gyre-pump-only-5300-gph-maxspect.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw5s3cBRCAARIsAB8ZjU3qnaAVPiQ_pD8ViBwIUp63qWwYkaXUrBUIUZJctLwDGEA2Pgi25Q4aAkLzEALw_wcB

Jebao at the very least clones other products, at the very worst is the brand name for an OEM factory selling modified versions of its contractee's intellectual property. (IIRC a few years ago there was a lawsuit with Hydor, basically saying that Jebao cloned one or another pump). That being said, from what I've seen the Jebao PP/SW/OW/SOW series pumps (IIRC all basically the same, just different model years) appear to be better than the Koralias, with more options, so they are still a reasonable buy in my book, especially since they seem to be fairly reliable. As far as the CP series, their gyre clone, the gyre is a much more complicated, precise, and less mature (i.e. less easy to successfully copy) design than a standard wave maker. From my time using the gyre, they are a somewhat complicated system which should work with no problem, but can frequently be finicky I'm told the CP25/40 is not as well designed as the original gyres, that Jebao predictably cut some corners with them, and that quality and reliably significantly lags the Maxspect or Icecap gyres. But I don't have any firsthand experience with them. I personally would pass on the Jebao CPs and get an icecap gyre for not much more (and IIRC much better control options). But the instant I say this I'm sure someone will come out and say how great their CP25 or 40 is. (to which I say "great, please tell us more").

I would think ORA could give you a group from the same cluch if you call the Liveaquaria Florida office. Beyond Mitch, one of the guys at BRS breeds clowns as a side job and has a few groups available: https://www.vossenaquatics.com/fish BRS's latest video on their harem tank is excellent too, IMO. https://youtu.be/ZFxzfPEAjIE

ORA sells them through liveaquaria too. Drop shipped straight from the ORA facility in Florida to your home… ( or even better, to the UPS customer service near your home if you do “hold for pickup”. Ships out the night before, and arrives at the UPS facility by 8:30 in the morning) https://m.liveaquaria.com/category/3353/ora-fish?c=3352+3353&r=

As others have said, any reputable salt mix will be perfectly fine. Instant ocean is the cheapest by far – on amazon prime or chewy maybe 1/3 the price of red sea salt that I use (not coral pro). I use red sea salt because its parameters are closer to what I want for a SPS tank. Red Sea Coral Pro is also fine; but has higher levels of certain elements. They recommend it for mixed reefs. https://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-recipes/

I had one pick at an acro frag, starting with . Unfortunately, that acro was on its way out, so I think (and some others "confirmed" it on R2R) that it was eating the STN'd tissue. Has not bothered any other frags so far. Though, admittedly, most of them are on magnetic frag holders...........

RR, welcome to WAMAS! How did you drill/plumb the 40B to your sump? I ask because I'm thinking of doing the same thing, if I don't get approval for a custom tank. :(

Yeah I remember that gorgonian. It was a fairly big piece that we cut into like 15 frags. (I packed most of those gorgonian frags). I disagree about the smell - it definitely had one, but I honestly think acroporas smell worse......... :D (as an aside: thanks, mogurnda for donating it. I almost took a frag, except that I am at my limit for soft corals) Seriously, that looks like a Eunicea species. Julian Sprung's (dated and not necessarily 100% accurate in its ratings; if only because it has too many genuses to be fully accurate down to the species and color type) guide to corals lists them as a "2/10" for aggressiveness. Most Caribbean photosynthetic gorgs get 1/10 or 2/10 ratings, except Pseudopterogorgia, Muriceopsis (both 4/10), and Pseudoplexaura (3/10).

One dude in this thread – who has a tank full of gorgonians – says that at least some species do chemical warfare. However, since he has so many mixed together, he can’t say which ones. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/war-coral-trouble.383866/#post-4701837 However, I am interested. Do you have pics of the Gregorian? I remember it at fragfest, but I don’t have a frag. ( for those curious, the war coral was in another tank for a month, and then came back. It’s now a mostly as good as new and is growing quite well. However there is one spot that refuses to grow back. I’m wondering maybe if it was the flow or something like that. I did put activated carbon into the tank)

Dr. Mac, Good meeting you last weekend, and thank you for coming! The maxima I got from you is doing well. I also hope it was worth all the trouble and the drive for you.

Yes. I’ve used two different Standard 3.5 inch cables from Monoprice ($2/piece)

Just picked up an excellent book on the cardinal: Banggai Cardinalfish: A guide to captive care, breeding, and natural history. Highly recommended to those who are interested in doing this in the future. Stephen, if you’re interested in a second try sometime, I could lend you the book. An/or give you the summaries of what it says I’m reading, with the time comes

Sorry for the typo, fixed in caps.

Don't have them, but I've seen them and considered them. Some people say that Radion is the best LED. Other people say that LEDs are nowhere near as good (IIRC for SPS) as T5s and metal halides. They're quite pricey and big, IMO. That being said, I'm a Kessil user and if you use an appropriate number of Kessils (e.g. 1 360W for each 18" to get 200+ PAR in the main part of the tank, , ref: BRS's review of the 360). If you're looking for softies or sps, especially in smaller tanks, you don't need so much light. Radion's app apparently lets you play with the spectrum as you like. Kessil is much simpler: you get a certain intensity of blue light, and you can add green/red by turning a dial. I think that you need the wxm module to use the radions with an apex. You can just plug the kessils directly into the port in the apex, IIRC. (I'm researching this now, but don't have an apex yet).