Coral Hind March 5, 2012 March 5, 2012 Coughing up blood and almost paralyzed! It sounds like that guy had it worse then Steve. I think it was dschflier that had an incident a year or so ago that brought the CDC out to his house to take samples from his Palys.
Chad March 5, 2012 March 5, 2012 ^wow. Did anything come of that? I could easily see a knee-jerk reaction attempting to do something like banning or restricting them. I don't want to be a member of that club either...
Coral Hind March 5, 2012 March 5, 2012 Chad, I don't know what exactly came out from the visit. His event wasn't from boiling them, he was breaking his tank down and was removing zoas and palys to sell. Shortly after selling the corals he got flu like symptoms, weak and body aches, his hands became almost un-usable.
Origami March 5, 2012 March 5, 2012 I've done this. Almost in the same manner, though I didn't use hot water. I used cold water and was punished, within 2 hours, with flu-like symptoms (fever, convulsing-chills, muscle aching, and low blood pressure). Others here, including, Jan were exposed, too. The last time that I handled these palys, I wore an organic (insecticide) respirator, shoulder-length gloves, and an eye shield and suffered no symptoms afterward.
.OptimusPrime. March 5, 2012 March 5, 2012 (edited) Wow! Definitely don't want that to happen to me whenever I get corals. Sorry for the newbie question, but does this apply to all zoas and palys? Learned something new today, so thanks I will definitely be investing in protective equipment later. Not sticking my hand in the tank anymore. Edited March 5, 2012 by .OptimusPrime.
Chad March 5, 2012 March 5, 2012 ^No it does not. Zoanthiids and Palythoas have a varying degree of the palytoxin in them depending upon the specific variety. Some are worse than others and some don't have any at all. As noted in the article on SteveOutlaw http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/04/05/world%E2%80%99s-2nd-deadliest-poison-in-an-aquarium-store-near-you/, the local variety is especially high in the toxin. Best to be conservative if you do not know what you have. It is also OK to stick your hand in your aquarium... the palytoxin is inside the animals. Only a concern if you are handling them, but especially a concern if you are intentionally damaging them (fragging, removing, etc.).
extreme_tooth_decay March 5, 2012 March 5, 2012 Palytoxin is lethal by several parenteral routes....administered to the alimentary tract (oral or rectal)....
Coral Hind March 5, 2012 March 5, 2012 irreversible blindness at topically applied levels of approximately 400 ng/kg, despite extensive rinsing after ocular instillation. I definately need to wear those safety googles more then I do.
steveoutlaw March 5, 2012 March 5, 2012 Coughing up blood and almost paralyzed! It sounds like that guy had it worse then Steve. I think it was dschflier that had an incident a year or so ago that brought the CDC out to his house to take samples from his Palys. Yep, he got it worse than me......but he breathed it in for 1/2 hour......I only had one inhale of the stuff. I had the couging up of blood and collapsed lungs, but luckily I didn't get to the point of paralysis!! Not sure about dschflier, but the CDC came out and tested the Palys in my tank soon after my incident to confirm that they in fact contained Palytoxin, and that it could be aerosolized. They had mentioned trying to pursue regulating them but I don't think anything ever came of it. Bottom line, the CDC told my that ALL zoantids and palythoas contain toxin that can make you very sick. However, only certain palythoas contain the palytoxin.
Ryan S March 5, 2012 March 5, 2012 Yep, he got it worse than me......but he breathed it in for 1/2 hour......I only had one inhale of the stuff. I had the couging up of blood and collapsed lungs, but luckily I didn't get to the point of paralysis!! Not sure about dschflier, but the CDC came out and tested the Palys in my tank soon after my incident to confirm that they in fact contained Palytoxin, and that it could be aerosolized. They had mentioned trying to pursue regulating them but I don't think anything ever came of it. Bottom line, the CDC told my that ALL zoantids and palythoas contain toxin that can make you very sick. However, only certain palythoas contain the palytoxin. and yet how many folks on RC didn't believe what happened to you? maybe with more incidents those folks will finally believe?
steveoutlaw March 5, 2012 March 5, 2012 and yet how many folks on RC didn't believe what happened to you? maybe with more incidents those folks will finally believe? Actually it got so bad with people sending me nasty messages on RC that I had to change my username. A lot of people didn't want to believe that it happened and were accusing me of trying to get stuff regulated. I mean, I got some really nasty messages and all the RC folks said was "we don't interfere in personal disputes". Gotta love trying to help people out!!
darkcirca March 5, 2012 March 5, 2012 Actually it got so bad with people sending me nasty messages on RC that I had to change my username. A lot of people didn't want to believe that it happened and were accusing me of trying to get stuff regulated. I mean, I got some really nasty messages and all the RC folks said was "we don't interfere in personal disputes". Gotta love trying to help people out!! Part of the reason I'm glad I posted here about my experience. I will say, I won't be going anywhere near those corals again without gloves. I learned my lesson.. twice.. and I do not wish that upon anyone. Not as bad as you, thankfully.
DaveS July 28, 2012 July 28, 2012 I seem to recall a picture of the plays being posted somewhere, anyone know where it is? I have some plays to remove and wondering if I should get the hazmat suit...
zygote2k July 28, 2012 July 28, 2012 I pick up palys and handle them on a somewhat regular basis. I make sure there are no open wounds on my hands and I usually do all fragging underwater, then rinse my hands thoroughly underwater when I am done. I've had no ill effects yet.
treesprite July 28, 2012 July 28, 2012 Are the ones people are talking about a drab green to pale brown? It's hard to tell the colors from the pictures, but they look like some I have a batch of in my tank which originally I got from Jason.
Origami July 29, 2012 July 29, 2012 Are the ones people are talking about a drab green to pale brown? It's hard to tell the colors from the pictures, but they look like some I have a batch of in my tank which originally I got from Jason. The ones I had were kind of a dull brown with a short stalk. They were sort of gray-dull, meaning it was a really muted brown. Really non-descript. I wouldn't call them green at all. Not even a tinge. Thin, flat oral disk that, in colonies, overlapped with each other so that you could not see their matted stalks. At full size, each oral disk was 3/8 to 1/2 inch across, I'd say. The second one down on this page is the closest picture I could come up with of the ones I was fighting: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50977&title=palys-palys-and-more-palyspics-addded Mine came from rock that I got from dhoch when I bought his tank.
steveoutlaw July 30, 2012 July 30, 2012 Here is the article with the pics of the one from my tank. They're ugly and they're mean!! http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/04/05/world%E2%80%99s-2nd-deadliest-poison-in-an-aquarium-store-near-you/
surf&turf July 30, 2012 July 30, 2012 The ones I had were kind of a dull brown with a short stalk. They were sort of gray-dull, meaning it was a really muted brown. Really non-descript. I wouldn't call them green at all. Not even a tinge. Thin, flat oral disk that, in colonies, overlapped with each other so that you could not see their matted stalks. At full size, each oral disk was 3/8 to 1/2 inch across, I'd say. The second one down on this page is the closest picture I could come up with of the ones I was fighting: http://www.utahreefs...alyspics-addded Mine came from rock that I got from dhoch when I bought his tank. My daughter calls them Stink Bug Palys.
smallreef July 30, 2012 July 30, 2012 Crazy man,,, just crazy... and this is why I have big thick plastic gloves
flooddc July 30, 2012 July 30, 2012 The ones I had were kind of a dull brown with a short stalk. They were sort of gray-dull, meaning it was a really muted brown. Really non-descript. I wouldn't call them green at all. Not even a tinge. Thin, flat oral disk that, in colonies, overlapped with each other so that you could not see their matted stalks. At full size, each oral disk was 3/8 to 1/2 inch across, I'd say. The second one down on this page is the closest picture I could come up with of the ones I was fighting: http://www.utahreefs...alyspics-addded Mine came from rock that I got from dhoch when I bought his tank. Okay, Just to clarify. Only the 2nd pic right? the other 2 are standard button paly that are not toxic? Here is the article with the pics of the one from my tank. They're ugly and they're mean!! http://blogs.discove...store-near-you/ Man, they are absolutely ugly. Not that attractive either. I always thought the more colorful ones are the one you stay away from!
Jan July 30, 2012 July 30, 2012 What's really scary is that most doctors know nothing about this or other marine related illnesses. It's like playing with poison darts when handling these without protection. If you're not aware of what they can do and you land in the ER chances of anyone knowing how to get to the root of your issues are slim. they'll treat according to signs and symptoms, but they may not ever figure out why. These corals should be sold with instructions on proper handling or something. There was a person that sold all kinds of inverts and corals on craigslist a few years ago. He was always posting for sale. Then I didn't hear from him for a long time, maybe 6 months. I emailed him. He ended up in the hospital from fragging zoanthids. He stopped handling and selling corals because he was very very sick. It really scared him.
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