Cliff Puckstable July 19, 2013 Share July 19, 2013 she's filling up fast! That's because your tank is too small. You need to get a bigger one, now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridetheducati July 19, 2013 Share July 19, 2013 He'd told me he was going to go with some structures from Cerameco http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/blog/CeramEco-Vida-Rock/ I'm considering it too for at least some of it. Built-in frag plug holders... Other than Mike and Terry using it, I have not heard much about that product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy July 19, 2013 Author Share July 19, 2013 Initially, I would treat the 265g as a separate system instead of an extension of the 46g system. Connect the two established systems after the new system is fully cycled. 1. Continue to collect live rock (dead or live), preferably dead, see step #4. Obtain at least 85% of rock before starting step #4. 2. Work out plumbing and overflow issues. 3. Starboard or shallow sand. Very difficult decision. Thinking long term may help you decide. Can you live with a coralline algae based bottom in 3-5 years? 4. Take your time aquascaping. I prefer a dry aquascape as you can use MarcoRocks bonding mortar to create stunning features. 5. Cycle the tank and rock 4-6 weeks. 6. Connect 265g to 46g system 7. Work out plumbing issues if needed 8. Slowly stock 265g. 9. Enjoy the fruits of your labor. thanks a ton for making it so easy to follow, haha. i'm going to heed your and scott's advice and establish the 265 independently and cycle separately than join them. Have you decided where you are getting the ceramic rock? I have seen several stunning reefs using Riffsystem. DSPS on RC not too long ago removed all his liverock and replaced with ceramic. Having said that, there are a few reefers who had a different experience. Expect to see a small cycle when using inert materials as bacteria have to colonize the surfaces. You can find Starboard in every color of the rainbow. Do you play chess? lol. most of the riff rock i've seen are shelves and long overhangs and it all basically looks exactly the same and looks home made - not a fan, frankly. i want something more exotic and artistic. i will be using the vidarock product. really liking the "knife" and "bonsai" series but am working with their designer/artisan to come up with some custom structures that are well balanced, allow a lot of space with sleeping nooks for everyone, and an overall open layout. it's tough! good to know starboard is available in a variety of colors. chess? no, but i do play quoridor. equally addictive and strategic He'd told me he was going to go with some structures from Cerameco http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/blog/CeramEco-Vida-Rock/ I'm considering it too for at least some of it. Built-in frag plug holders... thanks - yep going with all my structures made from them. working to get the design finalized, made, and shipped. lots of back and forth. That is neaaaaaat. i think so, much easier than doing myself, and more exotic shapes and designs with a more "finished" final product that i can really enjoy until corals start growing out like crazy, haha. That's because your tank is too small. You need to get a bigger one, now. shhhh...i'm working on it Other than Mike and Terry using it, I have not heard much about that product. i've read maybe ten or so personal reviews. haven't talked to anyone directly about it. seems there is a lot of trouble with folks that go custom and not OTS. i'm being very cautious and explicit in my expectations and responses with the company and expect positive results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami July 20, 2013 Share July 20, 2013 Long day. On substrate, no strong feelings. I still run a deep sand bed so no need for starboard! When I added a tank to my system, I kept it separate at first until it stabilized, and then gradually opened the connection between the two to allow parameters to equalize slowly. Your RO/DI is really putting out some water! (Sent from my phone.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy July 20, 2013 Author Share July 20, 2013 Long day. On substrate, no strong feelings. I still run a deep sand bed so no need for starboard! When I added a tank to my system, I kept it separate at first until it stabilized, and then gradually opened the connection between the two to allow parameters to equalize slowly. Your RO/DI is really putting out some water! (Sent from my phone.) thanks for the input - that seems to be the consensus. and about the RO/DI - it really is i guess. so it's been running since 8pm yesterday and i turned it off for four hours while i was away so 23 hours right now and it's got four inches left til full so let's say around 220GPD?? that's a far cry from 150gpd upgrade they advertise but i'm not complaining. i did just change all the media and filters, this is great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami July 20, 2013 Share July 20, 2013 That's great. I didn't realize that you had the 150 gpd setup. I figured that it was maybe the more commonly seen 75 gpd membrane. Output varies by temperature and pressure, so 220 GPD is good, but not outrageous. Be sure to leave room for displacement from your rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy July 20, 2013 Author Share July 20, 2013 That's great. I didn't realize that you had the 150 gpd setup. I figured that it was maybe the more commonly seen 75 gpd membrane. Output varies by temperature and pressure, so 220 GPD is good, but not outrageous. Be sure to leave room for displacement from your rock. i'm going to fill and use all weight full of water and shim then use some for water changes since it's right next to my sump for the 46g and that should leave room for the rock structures once they arrive. thanks for the tip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami July 20, 2013 Share July 20, 2013 i'm going to fill and use all weight full of water and shim then use some for water changes since it's right next to my sump for the 46g and that should leave room for the rock structures once they arrive. thanks for the tip! Sounds like a plan. Good luck with the leveling task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridetheducati July 22, 2013 Share July 22, 2013 Consider a shallow sand bed for added biological surface area since you are going ceramic. Ceramics with bare bottom may not be enough surface area when compared to traditional live rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind July 22, 2013 Share July 22, 2013 Why do ceramics have less surface area than regular live rock? I had always thought they had more. I'm sure long term once coralline algae covers them up smooth they are about the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy July 22, 2013 Author Share July 22, 2013 Consider a shallow sand bed for added biological surface area since you are going ceramic. Ceramics with bare bottom may not be enough surface area when compared to traditional live rock. i'm leaning towards a shallow sand bed with a more fine sand then some high flow areas with bigger substarte/crushed coral. can you elaborate on your surface area concerns? Why do ceramics have less surface area than regular live rock? I had always thought they had more. I'm sure long term once coralline algae covers them up smooth they are about the same. maybe he was talking about porosity not surface area? i'd like to hear more, tony. but even with porosity i know they advertise the below but who knows what that means in regards to comparison with reef rock. "CeramEco VidaRock is designed and engineered with a specific internal porosity and microstructure to support maximum bacteria populations responsible for biological filtration. VidaRock’s specialized highly textured surface provides additional bacteria attachment surface. Taken together Vida Rocks specialized porosity and surface area allow rapid bacteria colonization and in a short time will grow into a natural biological filter of amazing biological density. i also plan to use marinepure ceramic plates in the sump which has a ridiculous porosity and has worked very well for me in two other tanks. expensive but inch or inch, it's pretty amazing how much space it allows for biological filtration. keep a bunch in the sump so i can create a more open layout in the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami July 22, 2013 Share July 22, 2013 Porosity results in increased surface area. With respect to bacterial colonization, if a bacteria can get to it and attach to a surface, even it deep within the material, it's attached to the surface. Depending upon the manufacturing process, ceramics can be made to have extremely high surface area exceeding many naturally sourced materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridetheducati July 22, 2013 Share July 22, 2013 Why do ceramics have less surface area than regular live rock? I had always thought they had more. I'm sure long term once coralline algae covers them up smooth they are about the same. I have not tested ceramics; so I would take a conservative approach and anticipate ceramics not performing as well as natural live rock. If ceramics out performs live rock, great; if not, Marco would be prepared. I would give mother nature the benefit of doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridetheducati July 22, 2013 Share July 22, 2013 Porosity results in increased surface area. With respect to bacterial colonization, if a bacteria can get to it and attach to a surface, even it deep within the material, it's attached to the surface. Depending upon the manufacturing process, ceramics can be made to have extremely high surface area exceeding many naturally sourced materials. +1 i'm leaning towards a shallow sand bed with a more fine sand then some high flow areas with bigger substarte/crushed coral. can you elaborate on your surface area concerns? maybe he was talking about porosity not surface area? i'd like to hear more, tony. but even with porosity i know they advertise the below but who knows what that means in regards to comparison with reef rock. "CeramEco VidaRock is designed and engineered with a specific internal porosity and microstructure to support maximum bacteria populations responsible for biological filtration. VidaRock’s specialized highly textured surface provides additional bacteria attachment surface. Taken together Vida Rocks specialized porosity and surface area allow rapid bacteria colonization and in a short time will grow into a natural biological filter of amazing biological density. i also plan to use marinepure ceramic plates in the sump which has a ridiculous porosity and has worked very well for me in two other tanks. expensive but inch or inch, it's pretty amazing how much space it allows for biological filtration. keep a bunch in the sump so i can create a more open layout in the tank. Sometimes marketing does not always live up to the hype, but your plan is sound. Good job, you are prepared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM July 22, 2013 Share July 22, 2013 Seems like sugar sand would have the highest surface area. Blows around more than the marinepure plate, for sure, but it has to have more surface area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind July 22, 2013 Share July 22, 2013 i also plan to use marinepure ceramic plates in the sump which has a ridiculous porosity and has worked very well for me in two other tanks. expensive but inch or inch, it's pretty amazing how much space it allows for biological filtration. keep a bunch in the sump so i can create a more open layout in the tank. I am also thinking about using the ceramic plates in my sump. Been looking for a lower cost substitute than marinepure. Let me know how yours work out for you or if you find a lower cost version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowieReefer84 July 22, 2013 Share July 22, 2013 they sell them on ebay cheaper than BRS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy July 23, 2013 Author Share July 23, 2013 (edited) neighbors typically love the sound of table saws in the late night hours, right? got some work done late tonight. build a box frame for the external overflow. carefully taped up my glass for some nice clean lines. the dow 795 require you remove the tape about five minutes after application. any more than that it is just too tacky and gets very stringy and messy. the pups that were a good entertainment break were more tired than i apparently and passed out in the middle of the process. slightly annoying was losing three pencils during the night. resorted to using a sharpie that i clipped to my shirt. how does that happen? then put the 795 along the edges that were touching and on the inside seam. will allow to dry/cure and then mount to tank and do outside seams for giggles maybe. Edited July 23, 2013 by monkiboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy July 23, 2013 Author Share July 23, 2013 I am also thinking about using the ceramic plates in my sump. Been looking for a lower cost substitute than marinepure. Let me know how yours work out for you or if you find a lower cost version. sure will. i've used it in the past and it worked really well as far i can tell. kind of hard to judge objectively but once cycled and been running for a while i am able to hold just as much livestock as i would with extra rock. i started removing rock from this other tank while added 8x8x1 blocks to the sump, one for one and it's been working great. they sell them on ebay cheaper than BRS. holy cow - yeah a lot cheaper - awesome thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallreef July 23, 2013 Share July 23, 2013 Love your silicone work! And it looks freaking awesome! Poor pups...you tuckered them out with all of your motivation late at night,lol My dog thinks bedtime should be 7:30 as he picks up one of his toys and runs around with it in his mouth whimpering until we head upstairs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind July 23, 2013 Share July 23, 2013 Nice job on the late night project, very clean looking seams. they sell them on ebay cheaper than BRS. I just ordered four of the 4" blocks. You just saved me about $168! Another example of how my $20 membership due is worth it. THANKS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami July 23, 2013 Share July 23, 2013 Nice job on the build, Marco! I always keep several carpenter's pencils around my work area. It makes for shorter searches when I absentmindedly set one down after marking up my work and going to cut it. It's only important when you go to mark that next cut.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM July 23, 2013 Share July 23, 2013 My wife can testify that I spend the majority of the time on a project looking for that thing I was just holding a second ago. You do much cleaner caulk lines than I'm capable of. A true caulksman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy July 23, 2013 Author Share July 23, 2013 Love your silicone work! And it looks freaking awesome! Poor pups...you tuckered them out with all of your motivation late at night,lol My dog thinks bedtime should be 7:30 as he picks up one of his toys and runs around with it in his mouth whimpering until we head upstairs! yeah, there's no keeping these pups awake. it's half an hour of rambunctiousness then four hours of sleep like clock work then bed time for 8 hours. crazy kids! Nice job on the late night project, very clean looking seams. I just ordered four of the 4" blocks. You just saved me about $168! Another example of how my $20 membership due is worth it. THANKS! thanks - let us know in your build thread when you get them and any feedback. the screenname being marinepure on ebay and low sales count kind of irked me but they were all positive and from different buyers mostly so as soon as you get yours ok, i'll get mine from there as well! Nice job on the build, Marco! I always keep several carpenter's pencils around my work area. It makes for shorter searches when I absentmindedly set one down after marking up my work and going to cut it. It's only important when you go to mark that next cut.... thank you, sir. i really need to invest in a several dozen. i swear they skimper off to backyard in the woods when i'm not looking. My wife can testify that I spend the majority of the time on a project looking for that thing I was just holding a second ago. You do much cleaner caulk lines than I'm capable of. A true caulksman. yeah, my dad and i both suffer from this. it gets ridiculous and we just go back and forth assuring the other they were the last one with it. as you can imagine, it takes a LONG time to get some things done, haha. and i'm going to leave that last line of yours alone...just tooo easy, but thanks! haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK3 July 23, 2013 Share July 23, 2013 A true caulksman. Hahahaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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