Hair Algae...tell me all you know about it. How do I kill it!

[Der ABT]

if you have any zoanthids ive heard nothing but horror stories of rabbits eating every and all zoanthids/paly's in a tank.

[Jan]

Thanks for the heads up. I just read that on occasion they like to nip at LPS and softies. I wonder if that's only when there's not enough algae for them?

 

 

 

if you have any zoanthids ive heard nothing but horror stories of rabbits eating every and all zoanthids/paly's in a tank.

[trockafella]

Mine ate zoas because it ran out of algae and I didnt supply it with more. After I gave the fish to Rob, he always had algae of some sort in there for it and it never bothered his. Mine did not bother LPS or anything other than zoas.

[Jan]

Makes sense.

 

Mine ate zoas because it ran out of algae and I didnt supply it with more. After I gave the fish to Rob, he always had algae of some sort in there for it and it never bothered his. Mine did not bother LPS or anything other than zoas.

[SunWyrm]

My pair doesn't touch any corals, but then I spoil them with algae sheets. And they are nice about staying out of the way when you put your hand in.

[RicSG]

My friends tank was full of green hair Algae. He did buy few emerld crab and also he bought Vortex and his theory was good water movement helped the algae disapper. Not saying buy the vortex but for him the water movement that vortex created helpded in reducing the hair algae and on top of that emerld crab helped to get rid of the rest. The ammount of algae I saw in his tank i think there was no way few emerald crab could get rid of it in few days. I would say try with emerld crabs and then see if that helps. I am not an expert like all here so if I am wrong please let me know. I am always up for learning. I do not know if this can help but it did helped my friend and i saw it with my own eyes. Just wanted to share.

[bravanc]

my magic fix was a fresh group of red and blue legged hermits and water change

[bbyatv]

YBeNormal has it right. Most of these solutions only address the symptoms and the the root cause. I believe the best solution is to rid your tank of the nutrients (ie nitrates, phosphates) that allow the algae to grow in the firat place.

 

Bruce

 

Jan,

 

There are many things you can do to make the HA go away, but all of them in isolation only mask the underlying problem. For HA to grow out of control, you need several things:

 

- Light of the appropriate spectrum (and it is broad) and duration

- Nitrates

- Phosphates

- Lack of herbivores that will eat HA

 

Eliminate any of the first three and the problem is gone. Reduce any of the first three and the problem will become less severe. Add lots of the last item and the problem will either go away or you will have fat and happy herbivores. Although I did not have a major problem with it, my personal experience with HA was that I had elevated phosphates, accompanied with slight but almost unmeasurable NO3. I cut the lights for several days (coral actually liked this!), used some phosphate removers, and ordered a few extra snails for good measure. The problem went away. HTH

[trockafella]

I agree completely with Bruce. Addrssing the actual problem is the most important. Algae should grow naturally in the reef environment, just keeping it to a minimum and then keeping that minimum under control is where the fish/crabs come in..

[lowsingle]

FYI, my 2 bar rabbitfish never touched a single zoanthid long after he removed all of the algae in my tank.....also, I would stay away from emerald crabs (actually all crabs as they will and do eat everything).

 

Darren

[paul b]

I hate to get involved in these hair algae threads because I would just stop changing water. Yes I know it's against all you will read but did you ever hear of water changing eliminating hair algae? The only time that will work is if you are feeding massive amounts or something large died. Hair algae is the best remover of hair algae nutrients.

If left alone, in a week or two it will remove all the nutrients and lock them up in the algae, the secret is to then remove the algae as it dies and not let it rot in the tank so the nutrients will not again be released. Hair algae will only remove what it needs to grow and it does it very fast. As it dies it can easily be blown off corals and sucked out with a canister or diatom filter.

Crabs, rabbitfish, urchins, snails and slugs will not eliminate algae unless you can teach them to poop outside of the tank, good luck with that. Also, your water changes are adding nutrients to feed the algae.

I have had cycles of hair algae in my tank for decades and It always disappears when it exhausts the nutrients on it's own. That is the reason all of these "cures" come about, the stuff leaves on it's own no matter what you add to eliminate it. No one has a tank with hair algae in it for years unless you feed it. After the algae dies and you suck it out, then you can add snails, crabs, urchins, rabbitfish etc to keep it short. Also, feed less, that is the reason it grew in the first place.

Good luck

[Origami]

I hate to get involved in these hair algae threads because I would just stop changing water. Yes I know it's against all you will read but did you ever hear of water changing eliminating hair algae? The only time that will work is if you are feeding massive amounts or something large died. Hair algae is the best remover of hair algae nutrients.

If left alone, in a week or two it will remove all the nutrients and lock them up in the algae, the secret is to then remove the algae as it dies and not let it rot in the tank so the nutrients will not again be released. Hair algae will only remove what it needs to grow and it does it very fast. As it dies it can easily be blown off corals and sucked out with a canister or diatom filter.

Crabs, rabbitfish, urchins, snails and slugs will not eliminate algae unless you can teach them to poop outside of the tank, good luck with that. Also, your water changes are adding nutrients to feed the algae.

I have had cycles of hair algae in my tank for decades and It always disappears when it exhausts the nutrients on it's own. That is the reason all of these "cures" come about, the stuff leaves on it's own no matter what you add to eliminate it. No one has a tank with hair algae in it for years unless you feed it. After the algae dies and you suck it out, then you can add snails, crabs, urchins, rabbitfish etc to keep it short. Also, feed less, that is the reason it grew in the first place.

Good luck

Good point. It's the reason behind algal turf filters. Jan, if this is for your larger tank, and you have the inkling, you could try building an algal filter.

[Jan]

Paul and Tom,

This makes a lot of sense. I have observed that certain sections start too look mushy, like it's not thriving. As I've mentioned I only have one fish in there. I also have a handful of cleaners; emerald, red, blue legged crabs and a few cleaner shrimp, brittle stars, etc. My feedings are down to bare minimum at this point; a few pellets once a day.

 

I have no inkling on how to build an algal turf. I'm also not sure I have the room. I have a sump. I'd appreciate any suggestions on design, etc using what I have. LMK. Thank you.

J

[Chad]

Jan, algae scrubbers are super easy to make and could probably be integrated into your sump.

 

You would need a pressure source (either a pump or perhaps use your overflow), some piping, a CFL light, and a scratched up plastic grid from a craft store.

 

Here is a picture of a plumbing example (taken from algaescrubbers.net)

 

 

and set in a sump

 

[Origami]

As long as you have oxygenated water with good flow and light across a growing surface, you should be good. Paul has a scrubber built into a tray that he runs along the back of his tank, near the top. He uses some plastic window screen material, treated with cement dust (to provide a better anchor point for algae threads). Because it's up their near his tank lights, he effectively takes "free" spillover light. Every few weeks (or months), he rolls up the screen and cleans off a section as I recall.

 

The implementation that Chad's shown above is another. The pump is used to pump the water up to the screen and to push it out in a laminar flow across the screen. Often times, I've seen this implemented by putting a slit in a piece of PVC pipe, inserting the screen into the slit, and clamping down around it with either pvc end caps or even zip ties. The important thing is just to get good flow and turnover across the surface of the screen to keep bringing nutrients to the algae that will ultimately colonize the screen. (The increased oxygenation will have other benefits, too, such as increasing your pH and helping with the breakdown of organics in the tank, as well as helping to develop a healthy pod population.) One thing to remember is, when cleaning the screen, don't clean (aka harvesting algae) the whole thing off at once. Clean about half of the screen at a time. This leaves the other half to rapidly colonize the newly cleaned surface.

[Ryan S]

But, with an algae scrubber, isn't it safe to say that you're not curing the underlying problem, just moving the algae to the scrubber?

[Chad]

^not exactly. Algae is a very effective means of reducing nutrients in a system, you just need to be able to remove it periodically to export those nutrients.

 

An algae scrubber will do everything a protein skimmer will, albeit not as quickly.

[Origami]

But, with an algae scrubber, isn't it safe to say that you're not curing the underlying problem, just moving the algae to the scrubber?

It depends upon what you view the problem as being. If the problem is nuisance algae in our displays, then no. As it moves it from the display, which was the problem. If it's the availability of nutrients, then no, as the scrubber takes up those nutrients. If the problem is the growth of algae, then yes, it does not prevent the growth of algae. It encourages it, in fact.

 

Our systems are mini ecosystems where we try to balance energy and nutrient input with uptake and export. Unfortunately, because our systems are so small, balance is never fully achieved. That's why we use all sorts of means, including mechanical and chemical means of exporting waste (e.g. water changes, additives, skimmers, carbon, phosphate binders, etc.). Waste is not inherently bad, that is, it's not a "problem" - after all, one (non producer) organism's waste is another's food (energy) source. So the algae becomes a "sink" for waste that it considers food. Ultimately, all of this food comes from what we put into the tank, whether it's food or light. Algae's natural, it's not bad. And it is just one organism that competes for residual nutrients in our tank. (And, it can be an important one, too.)

 

In this sense, the scrubber just moves that competition to a less visible place in our tank. The algae in the scrubber competes with algae elsewhere, thus reducing it's growth in these other areas. Similarly, adding CUC and herbivorous fishes allows the algae to continue growing, but uses predation to keep it under control.

 

I just consider it one of the tools in our toolbox of controls: Mechanical, chemical, and biological (including bacterial, predation, and competition).

[paul b]

I just consider it one of the tools in our toolbox of controls: Mechanical, chemical, and biological (including bacterial, predation, and competition).

 

 

Exactly. Algae is a good thing not a bad thing, we just don't want to see it covering our corals. A tank with absolutely no algae is not in good shape and not very healthy. Algae grows on every healthy reef in the sea, if it did not, why would there be so many tangs, urchins, slugs, snails, sea hares and rabbitfish?

An algae trough or lighted refugium will grow algae faster than your reef because these devices offer algae better growing conditions than your tank. In my set up, I have a 5' trough which is a Home Depot PVC fence post sliced in half. The water flows through it 1/2" deep and right near the main tank lighting. Most of the algae in my reef grows in there and now it is full of hair algae and there is absolutely none of it in my tank itself. It is doing exactly what it is supposed to do.

If I see no algae in my trough and none in the tank, I know something is wrong.

Yes this is totally backwards from how many people think. But I have a name for those people, and that name is "wrong"

 

So algae is a good thing (in moderation) and animals will not eliminate it because they just convert it into poop which is algae fertilizer. That works in the sea because most of the sea is too deep for algae to grow so when a thousand 12" tangs along with 500 urchins, 100 snails and an assortment of other herbifores decend on a tiny patch of reef, they eat all the algae and their poop mixes with the rest of the sea. Some of it grows more algae and the rest sinks deep where no light reaches. But then the next day, all of those animals are back.

[davelin315]

First off I'd see what levels your water is at. I'll disagree with Paul in that you obviously have some conditions in the tank that are allowing it to outcompete other forms of nutrient removal. I'd also do a bucket test on your water to see if the water itself is turning green, if it is, you've got tons of nutrients and freefloating algae in your tank that will recolonize.

 

My solution to hair algae in a system that was absolutely overrun with it was to put in a seahare. They naturally eat caulerpa but when there was none in the tank it ate up the hair algae. As it did so, the water turned progressively greener. Once it ate all of the algae, though, I did a 100% water change and vacuumed everything out as well. The end result was that the nutrients that the hair algae was feeding off of was essentially all water-borne after the seahare had done its work and the water change removed all of this. After that it continued to clean up any residual algae and I supplemented its diet with nori. It took about 2-3 weeks for it to finish off all of the hair algae - and I mean all of it. Its poop is also fairly easy to siphon out if you've got a bare bottom system since it piles it up in little pellets.

[YBeNormal]

Partial water changes do not hurt, but they will not solve the problem or even put a noticeable dent in it and the reason is quite easy to understand--dilution. Let's assume, for simplicity, that there are no additional nutrients being added (not a valid assumption, but humor me on this one please) and you perform 10% daily water changes. The first water exchange removes 10% of the excess nutrients, leaving 90% of the nutrients behind. The next 10% water change only removes 9% of the original excess nutrients, leaving 81% behind...81-10%= 72.9...72.9-10%= 65.61. Because of dilution, each subsequent water change removes an even smaller percentage of the original nutrients. A 100% water change as Dave did will remove most, but not all excess nutrients since they are also bound in the sand and rocks and will be released into the new water.

 

Personally, I would take a combined approach to many of the recommendations you've received so far. I'd target one two of the variables that allow HA to grow (phosphates, light/spectrum, nitrates), probably starting with phosphates. I might throw in one or more of the critters that love to eat HA (again, only masking the problem but making the tank look a little better). I would also recommend that you evaluate what you are feeding and how much since many commercial foods, especially frozen foods, contain high levels of phosphates and nitrates. I would continue with routine water changes, maybe doubling the volume for the next few weeks, and continue pulling excess HA by hand as often as possible (helping to export the excess nutrients in the process). Algae scrubbers are great, but add even more complexity to your tank maintenance and can produce some nasty smells if they are not properly maintained. Most important, be patient and methodical. You'll win the battle once you identify and correct the primary root cause(s).

[Packman@90]

Go with the Algae Scrubber, my tank was a mess (overgrown) with GHA until I found out about Algae Scrubber, now my tank is looking good, and I am buying coral again to replace all the ones that died off from being suffocated by the GHA.

 

I don't know how to upload pictures but when I figure it out i will give you some before and after shots.

[paul b]

This was my "Hair algae farm" about 15 years ago. The stuff was all over the place. After having cycles of it every few years for decades, I learned how to get rid of massive quantities of it. I outlined that in my first post here. It leaves on it's own no matter how many crabs, urchins and rabbitfish you put in but by adding an algae filter, trough, refugium or whatever you want to call it and severly limiting your input of food, the stuff will mostly grow where you want it to grow.

Also whatever you are using for a substrait for bacteria may not be enough. Obviousely you have enough aerobic bacteria but it seems your tank may be lacking in anerobic bacteria.

I have been dealing and eliminating it for a very long time and no matter how severe an infestation of hair algae, it all dies all at once as soon as it reaches a level where it can't suck enough nutrients out of your water. At that point, your water is very healthy and pure, all the nutrients and nitrate is held inside the algae. Just suck it out as it loosens from it's base and your water will be much healthier than if you changed it.

New water is not alwaays the answer even though it is always the first thing mentioned. Did you ever see a healthy looking brand new tank with all new water?

Fish and corals look lousy in new water, why is that? Why don't we do 100% water changes with all ASW? If we all used NSW we could do that. Algae and probably also bacteria add important vitamins to the water which is the reason old established tanks are healthier, grow less algae and almost never have disease problems.

If you look at this picture with everything covered in hair algae, you should also notice that the corals and fish appear very healthy. That fireclown is still healthy and spawning and he is about 17 years old now. That bubble coral was 13 years old.

Algae is a good thing, But just like in your garden, it needs to be controlled and taught to grow only whwer you want it to grow.

Without plants and algae we would not be here and neither would there be any life in the sea.

 

[Jan]

One of my problems is that my TDS reads 10. I just tested this yesterday. My phosphates are high too. Does anyone know which one of our sponsoring vendors sells replacement filters for the AWI Typhoon?

 

The new lights I put in probably haven't helped either. It all started when I replaced the bulbs and purchased corals with some HA on them. I did massive water changes becuase of whatever was killing my fish. I suspect I replaced decent water with high TDS water, new lights, high phosphate and BLOOM!!! Oh, and my skimmer pump is acting up. that doesn't help eauther. Been trying ot get hubby to pull it out and look at it.

 

I don't have the room for an algae scrubber. My tanks already smell like the ocean, which I love but then sometimes I wonder if it's a goodsmell to have in your home. The LPS arelooking better than ever. Some SPS are too, the ones that aren't getting smothered in HA, that is.

 

First - to chnage the RO/DI filters

Second - continue with water changes with TDS free water

Third - run some GFO

Fourth - take as much of the HA out manually

Fifth - reduce light in hours

I should see some results in a week or so, if not then I'll re-evaluate

 

What do you think?

[YBeNormal]

I think you have a good plan.

 

First, other than a few proprietary filter units, all units use standard filter sizes so you can buy from just about anywhere and they will work in the AWI units.

 

When measuring TDS, make sure you are measuring straight out of the unit, preferably in a clean glass. Plastic storage bins and the like will cause an elevated TDS reading sometimes and this is not necessarily a bad thing. I think I have at least one full set (RO membrane, carbon and particulate filters, and resin) in my spare storage. Since my tanks are not in use, I'd be more than willing to sell them to you at cost (no shipping charges, but you'd have to pick them up). Let me know if you are interested and I will verify that I still have everything.

 

Since you know you have elevated phosphates, that would be the first thing to tackle and will probably go a long way to resolving your HA issue. Of course, nitrates will follow as the HA dies, so good filtration and water changes will be a must. Once you get the phosphates down, I'd turn the lights off for three days, even cover the tank to block all light if you can. It won't hurt the corals, in fact, corals often color up even better after a short period of darkness. I guess this simulates a stormy period in nature or something.