Which Side of the Fence Are You On?

[lancer99]

Bring it .....once the dog is off your club foot.

 

 

-R

[gastone]

The problem is that he is *not* passing them out. With his LE ridiculousness, auctioning them, and creating wait lists for frags that extend five years into the future, he's creating pure hype and an aura of exclusivity.

 

If I labelled my GSP (and I *do* know the lineage, thanks DaveS ) "Limited Edition Atomic Neon Magnum Polyp GSP" on RC, I bet I could get a few suckers, but I'd rather leave frags on the freebie table at WAMAS meetings.

 

I guess it's not in the same "class" as Tyree LEs, but my most of my favorite corals have come from fellow WAMAS members, around $10 for what would cost $50-$70 online, unnamed and hype-free.

 

-R

 

Okay, he's at my side and not in my lap any longer. I think Tyree is in fact "passing" these corals around. His methods of doing so may disgust you, but do you think the guy is living in a Beverly Hills mansion, driving a Bentley and carousing with Hollywood hipsters? I counted 94 LE corals from the reef farmers web site. Could be more, could be less. In fact, for ease, let's make it 100. Now, some of those are out of vogue, or have been so distrubuted (tyree toadstool for example) and haven't been reserved by anyone in a spell, and more than a few aren't available monthly (but rather bi-monthly or quarterly) as they grow slow, then there are times when corals that are reserved aren't distrubted as the colonies haven't grown enought to warrant cutting, so the reserve is cancelled. All in all I'd say he distibutes 60 LE reserve corals per month. Call it $80 per and you are looking at just shy of 5 grand. If that was his take home he'd be doing okay for selling some pretty corals... if that was his take home. Back out his electricity (if you can imagine the price of running numerous 400w hallides (in Cali btw)), his salt, his travel to find these things and the guy is probably not doing much more than breaking even.

 

The fact is he is aquaculturing aesthetically pleasing corals. I highly doubt he has a limitless supply of "pretty" corals to pass out. He has to grown them out just like you or I. Ours may be brown and not have the widespread appeal (that IMO is well deserving) of his, but I would venture to say that they grow out at roughly comparable rates. At each meeting I hope to be able to frag *a few* choice corals to trade at the meeting. 5 tops. Quarterly meetings and you are talking 20 frags a year I've got available, minus the softies. Tyree does the same thing... distribute frags. He isn't selling an exorbitant amount of corals. Heck, don't you think if he had these things falling out of his cupboards he'd unload them now instead of having people wait until 2011. I mean, he ain't having no problem selling what he's got.

 

FWIW I've never purchased a Tyree coral from Frag Farmers... too rich for my pittance of a teaching salary. But if I had the cash I wouldn't be opposed to it. (I'd probably get another mastiff first though)

 

Labelling every coral under the sun doesn't interest me, but people that are pushing the hobby towards more aquaculture are okay by me.

 

G.

 

Edit: Now if you want to talk about the hack shops that take wild colonies, chop them up into pieces and unload twenty frags that may or may not survive and def. won't hold their color, then that I do have issue with.

Edited March 19, 2008 by gastone

[edkruzel]

If someone wishes to and can afford more expensive corals, then I say more power to them. I've experienced most of the hobby on the retail side of the house so I fully understand overhead and availability, but I think we can all agree that many of the "high demand" corals are WAY over-priced and fueled by greed.

 

First off I've never seen a rare coral in this hobby, but I do see rarely collected corals. I've also seen hobbyists break the law to make some money like a certain low life in Pennsylvania that broke the CITES codes having Japanese Acans marked as Indo Blastomussa so they would pass Customs and then sell them for hundreds of dollars a polyp. Japanese Acans are far from rare in Japan and Taiwan. In parts of Europe Royal Grammas are marked as rare and sell for an arm and a leg.

 

Personally I've come to appreciate the lonely $5-10 frags and the manipulation of light's spectrum to watch the beautiful growth and color evolve over the months.

[lancer99]

... All in all I'd say he distibutes 60 LE reserve corals per month. ...

 

 

Not that I would ever want to be argumentative, but....

 

I really don't give a tinker's darn whether Steve Tyree is *removed* or not. The simple fact is that there are thousands (probably tens of thousands, if the stats are right) of reefkeepers who are doing aquaculture, and I'd venture to say that some of the best are on our very doorstep.

 

They share/sell frags without the hype, without the ridiculously inflated prices, and without the 'tude. They, not the likes of Steve Tyree, are the heroes in my book.

 

-R

Edited March 19, 2008 by davelin315

[BeltwayBandit]

Its too bad I had to remove my replacement for Tyree from the bad word filter... It would make this thread much more interesting to read.

 

I'm definitely in the I buy it because I like it camp. I prefer aquacultured frags because they have better survival rates. I think the naming is silly, but if people are willing to pay more for a name then it will not go away.

[wolfman]

what sucks is a couple people on this board sell there corals to try to make a profit like a little chip of superman for 60- 80 when they have a football size peace in there tank and you know they make thousands off that peace instead of trying to help people out its a shame. I could name five of the top of my head that are on this board and so could many of you it needs to stop. just my two cents

[YBeNormal]

I don't know a single WAMAS member who sells frags and has not given a few away to help newcomers get established, to help someone overcome a tank crash or as freebies and raffle items for our quarterly meetings. Most of these people reserve offers of free or cheap frags for people who are actually members of WAMAS though.

 

BTW, I received a free frag of superman monti from a fellow WAMAS member last year and have given several frags of it away to other members--also for free. I've also given away zoas, toadstool, stag, monti cap and several other types of coral and sold RBTAs at ridiculously low prices. Maybe you should consider joining WAMAS?

[wolfman]

I didnt say every member i said a few people and yes there are some of those members that will help you out i agree but there are those few that do it to make a profit right or wrong?

[Highland Reefer]

I didnt say every member i said a few people and yes there are some of those members that will help you out i agree but there are those few that do it to make a profit right or wrong?

 

I have not been a member here that long. It has been my experience, that the members who sell the so called high end frags pretty much sell them back and forth between themselves. Nothing like the excitement of an auction.

[bigJPDC]

we might need football-sized peace in this thread pretty soon . . .

[extreme_tooth_decay]

Its too bad I had to remove my replacement for Tyree from the bad word filter... It would make this thread much more interesting to read.

 

That's the first thing I thought of when I read this thread. That was pretty amusing.

 

What was it, "A common coral with an uncommon price" or something like that?

[ErikS]

You sell things for what the market will bear - what's the problem?

 

Unless I'm mistaken nobody is forced to buy the stuff.

 

That explains why a $4.50 latte from Starbucks tastes much better than the same thing I make at home for 50 cents

As the old saying goes - nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American consumer.

 

Successfully charging $4.50 for the a product that is consistently ranked as the worst in the business - that's genius right there................makes Tyree look like a piker.

[dbartco]

we might need football-sized peace in this thread pretty soon . . .

 

 

This debate is not new, and I do rarely see wild colonies of the same hold their color as well. Those "outraged" are typically those not around the hobby long. People eventually learn that putting in the time and patience will get you what you want, if you want it. If you are around long enough, and still don't agree, there is just "disappointment", and you choose not to deal with those people. Or you wait till the price is in your range. Trusting the lineage is a personal choice. But again, if you are patient enough, you learn who and how the same folks are getting the LE corals, and how to get later generations for cheaper. (and I ain't saying I'm patient either)

 

Otherwise, who cares. Who are we making these colored boxes for anyway? I would think there could be those perfectly happy with what you can get at the freebie table at a meeting. I drive a Saturn. Heck, I want the Cobra. I could get a knockoff kit car if I wanted. Or, I could be happy with my Saturn... What do you want to spend you $$ on?

[scott711]

What do you want to spend you $$ on?

 

I like to spend my money on you.

[jnguyen4007]

I didnt say every member i said a few people and yes there are some of those members that will help you out i agree but there are those few that do it to make a profit right or wrong?

 

Profit is the difference between what one person charge minus their expenses. With that said, I suppose there are those who do manage to make a profit, but I seriously doubt that they can make enough to quit their day job. If anything at all, they make enough to allow them to sustain their hobby. This hobby can definitely get a whole lot more expensive if it weren't for club members selling and giving their stuff other members to help them get started. All you have to do is go down to a loca FS and look around and see how expensive some of the stuff are then compare that to the same thing that other members are selling. We also have members giving stuff away all the time. I know I wouldn't have half of the stuff in my tank today if I have to pay full retail price for everyone of them or not have members who were nice enough and kind enough to give them to me without so much as asking for a dime in return.

[Leishman]

what sucks is a couple people on this board sell there corals to try to make a profit like a little chip of superman for 60- 80 when they have a football size peace in there tank and you know they make thousands off that peace instead of trying to help people out its a shame. I could name five of the top of my head that are on this board and so could many of you it needs to stop. just my two cents

 

 

If I sold my frags at market rates, which I'dont, I would fall way short of paying my tanks electric bill; never mind salt (I change 40g/week), bulbs (3x 400w, 1x250w, 1x150w, and 4x140w), water, filters, reactor media (I run 3 different reactors), and the list goes on. No "profit" here.

 

I truly wish I could charge more for my frags; truth is, there is no a VERY small market in this area for people willing to pay market rates. I do not have time to ship, if I did I'd be all over selling on RC. I pay top $ to get the stuff I want, what's wrong with charging what you paid? If I pay $60 for a frag, should I grow it out and sell it for $10? H-E-double hocky sticks no.

 

......it needs to stop

 

Don't buy and your problem is solved.

 

 

I met Tyree ~4years ago (he was a guest speaker @ a CMAS event) and I came away saying I'd never buy a coral from him (directly) as he was a complete tool.

 

I didnt say every member i said a few people and yes there are some of those members that will help you out i agree but there are those few that do it to make a profit right or wrong?

 

Wrong

[ErikS]

Okay, I've got a question -

 

Who's posting in this thread that hasn't met Rik?

 

If you have then you're seriously delusional if you think he's "in it for the $$$$".

 

If you haven't met him then see the statement above

 

Acquiring & growing coral costs $$$$ - that's just the way it is.

[dbartco]

btw, lets not make anything personal here folks...

[Leishman]

btw, lets not make anything personal here folks...

 

You would look funny in a cobra. I see you more af a "Dolly" guy

 

 

 

[BeltwayBandit]

You would look funny in a cobra. I see you more af a "Dolly" guy

 

Now that would be a fun car to cruise around in.

[vaironman]

As someone has mentioned, you don't have to buy it if you don't like it. The longer you stay in this hobby and with more readings, learning from the veterans real life experience, you'll understand why the cost of aquaculture such as ORA, Tyree, Eric from Fragfarmer costs a little higher.

 

It almost you get what you pay for.

 

As those five guys you think they make frags for profit, post a question to them: how many times they had their money went down a drain with a newly purchased frag went brown or died on them for no apparent reason; especially, SPS and all the others are just happy.

 

In this hobby, you don't make profit as a hobbyist.

Edited March 19, 2008 by vaironman

[gastone]

Don't hate on the citroen. Those things are hot. My old man used to own a D-series sedan when we lived in Italy. Gotta love the hydraulic suspension.

 

G.

[JMsAquarium]

Don't hate on the citroen. Those things are hot. My old man used to own a D-series sedan when we lived in Italy. Gotta love the hydraulic suspension.

 

G.

 

Hehe, I used to ride the same one on Rick's picture. A girl friend of mine had one of those, fond memories

Then I owned a G series. Same hydraulic suspension as the D ones Garrett mentions. Great cars. Allons Enfants de la Patrie!!!!

[jnguyen4007]

I used to live in Italy. Thought those cars were ugly then and still do. They do have great mileage though.

[Leishman]

A friend's dad had one, green and white. I shot snot out my nose laughing when he turned the crank and the panel under the windsheid opened up, he said it was the air-conditioning.