Which Side of the Fence Are You On?

[lancer99]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...mp;pagenumber=1

 

-R

[Highland Reefer]

[jwildman]

Agree with the post ... good stuff.

[mogurnda]

I get a little tired of people ragging on the LE stuff. From my MichaelG LE SuperAtomic Beige Capnella to my scott711 LE InfraSeductive Taupe Pseudoplexaura, it's the lineage that makes the difference in my corals. The first thing most people ask when looking at my tank is "Is that really a pupchao LE purple frilly with ecru polyps?"

 

I think the only thing lamer than worrying about whether a coral is a specific LE lineage is writing a long rant about how lame LE lineages are. Look out the window, there's a world out there.

 

Speaking of which, I am sitting in a room 17 stories above Mexico City. What am I doing online?

[gastone]

Robert,

 

there are two sides to every fence. While the naming thing is a bit much (especially inre to zoanthids, look what happened to the zoanthid forum on RC. Used to be a decent forum, now it's all about "id'ing", whatever the H-E-double hocky sticks that means), the flip side is that Tyree and others are aquaculturing corals (which happen to be quite colorful often times) and passing them out. Meaning I don't have to purchase a large wild colony that is going to struggle in captivity to take hold, I'll just pay the same amount for a small frag (from whomever) knowing what captive conditions it does best in, knowing that it will be hardy, knowing what coloration/form (or whatever the appeal is) it will keep. That being said, there ain't much money is selling frags (or colonies for that matter) of brown whathaveyou. I understand you like the biotope. I think it's cool. I think Dave Sandstrom's Caribbean Reef is awesome. I think Daniel Shaw's biotope is sweet as well. What if Daniel decided he really wanted some intertidal anemone that is only found in some small beach in Indonesia, and the cost to have it plucked from the reef and transhipped to his door was $2000? Would we call him crazy, would we think it absurd? Probably, but I bet you he'd be thrilled. Isn't that what matters?

 

G.

[yauger]

Speaking of which, I am sitting in a room 17 stories above Mexico City. What am I doing online?

 

 

[scott711]

I get a little tired of people ragging on the LE stuff. From my MichaelG LE SuperAtomic Beige Capnella to my scott711 LE InfraSeductive Taupe Pseudoplexaura, it's the lineage that makes the difference in my corals. The first thing most people ask when looking at my tank is "Is that really a pupchao LE purple frilly with ecru polyps?"

 

I think the only thing lamer than worrying about whether a coral is a specific LE lineage is writing a long rant about how lame LE lineages are. Look out the window, there's a world out there.

 

Speaking of which, I am sitting in a room 17 stories above Mexico City. What am I doing online?

 

Hey hey, That coral is one of a kind

 

You didn't invite anyone else to come with you to Mexico?

[extreme_tooth_decay]

It's one of those "to each their own" things...like many other aspects of this hobby.

 

To me, it's always seemed very silly (I wouldn't pay one cent extra), but hey...whatever floats your boat!

 

tim

Edited March 18, 2008 by extreme_tooth_decay

[Leishman]

With the lineage you know what you are getting.

 

I'd rather pay extra to get what I want than less for a coral that will not have the colors I was expecting.

 

People do abuse the LE to get more $, I try not to.

 

PM on line is $80-150 for less than 1/2", I can't sell them for $60 as people think I'm selling a lookalike. I got a PM from a guy in CT asking why my PM frags were $60; he told me I was crazy, so I sold him a slightly larger one for $250 and he was happy.

[jason the filter freak]

 

People do the same thing with dogs. Not that you can frag them.

[HowardofNOVA]

Here is the thing I think you are missing. Lots of named corals (not all) look good in a number of tanks. Also, because people are tracing lineage, they can be sure that it is the same coral. If I see a named coral that looks good in lots of tanks, then I am likely to want to purchase that exact coral, because the odds are better that it will look good in my tank than that it won't. If a coral looks similar to a named coral, it might look good in my tank, but I don't have as much to go on.

 

I totally agree with that the "Marketing Crazy" has gone wild with current process of jacking up prices, especially with the Aussie corals going with crazy prices and especially they are grow great in all tanks!

Good ranting!!

 

(BTW - Will be selling shortly, my "Howard's Super RED AUSSIE Enchino", get your loans ready!!!!

[lancer99]

What if Daniel decided he really wanted some intertidal anemone that is only found in some small beach in Indonesia, and the cost to have it plucked from the reef and transhipped to his door was $2000? Would we call him crazy, would we think it absurd? Probably, but I bet you he'd be thrilled. Isn't that what matters?

G.

Good point...as I mentioned, it really is down to each person's taste/choice. And in a way it's a tribute to how advanced we've collectively gotten as coral keepers, that the emphasis is more on naming/branding, rather than care.

 

But I still hate all the hype and all the crazy prices. And I stand by my statement that a tank that accurately duplicated nature would have ZERO chance of winning TOTM....and to my mind, that is just wrong.

 

-R

[ErikS]

I'd rather pay extra to get what I want than less for a coral that will not have the colors I was expecting.

I'll defer to your expertise, but does one really know what they're getting? They get a known "starting point", but they certainly change colors in various tanks?

 

(really just curious)

 

To me LE has always just meant $$$$, but even without it the "favorites of the moment" always seem to demand excessive prices - supply & demand.

[YBeNormal]

PM on line is $80-150 for less than 1/2", I can't sell them for $60 as people think I'm selling a lookalike. I got a PM from a guy in CT asking why my PM frags were $60; he told me I was crazy, so I sold him a slightly larger one for $250 and he was happy.

 

I read a comment in the Wash Post by someone explaining that his/her mom owned an antique store. When she noticed that an item was not selling, she would simply raise the price to a much higher level and the piece would quickly sell to someone who felt that they were getting a more valuable and therefore more desirable antique because it cost more. Me? I buy what I want and because I want it, not because it has a name.

[guppychao]

how do you know if a specific frag is a LE Tyree?

what proof is there?

 

why cant someone sell a nice looking frag and label it a tyree?

if it changes color, then that person can say it must be your lighting, water parameters, etc

 

I dont mind the lineage but how can you be sure that you are truly buying something that is labeled "tyree"

 

or from some exotic place?

 

just being devils advocate

[lancer99]

why cant someone sell a nice looking frag and label it a tyree?

if it changes color, then that person can say it must be your lighting, water parameters, etc

Not only that, but when you pull it out of the bag, if it doesn't look like what you bought, that's *always* due to "shipping stress."

 

 

I'll defer to your expertise, but does one really know what they're getting? They get a known "starting point", but they certainly change colors in various tanks?

 

(really just curious)

 

Answering on Leishman's behalf (apologies for putting words in your mouth...) If you have a known starting point, and similar tank conditions, you're more likely to end up with the same colors. With wild-caught colonies, it's essentially a crapshoot.

 

I read a comment in the Wash Post by someone explaining that his/her mom owned an antique store. When she noticed that an item was not selling, she would simply raise the price to a much higher level and the piece would quickly sell to someone who felt that they were getting a more valuable and therefore more desirable antique because it cost more.

That explains why a $4.50 latte from Starbucks tastes much better than the same thing I make at home for 50 cents

 

-R

Edited March 18, 2008 by lancer99

[Leishman]

I was taught that in economics class back in highschool. The eg there was if you can't sell the ugly hat, double the price and it will sell as it now looks to be a 'designer' hat.

 

Good stuff.

 

 

I work in an industry were if the price drops 50% no one wants the thing we sell, if the price shoots up everyone wants it. God bless the stock markets.

[lancer99]

... the flip side is that Tyree and others are aquaculturing corals (which happen to be quite colorful often times) and passing them out. ....

The problem is that he is *not* passing them out. With his LE ridiculousness, auctioning them, and creating wait lists for frags that extend five years into the future, he's creating pure hype and an aura of exclusivity.

 

If I labelled my GSP (and I *do* know the lineage, thanks DaveS ) "Limited Edition Atomic Neon Magnum Polyp GSP" on RC, I bet I could get a few suckers, but I'd rather leave frags on the freebie table at WAMAS meetings.

 

I guess it's not in the same "class" as Tyree LEs, but my most of my favorite corals have come from fellow WAMAS members, around $10 for what would cost $50-$70 online, unnamed and hype-free.

 

-R

Edited March 18, 2008 by lancer99

[jnguyen4007]

Just to add my 2 cents, the longer I've been in this hobby and following several different marine forum sites, the more people I see that seem to be in it to make money instead of enjoying the hobby. Maybe because I have not been in this hobby long enough to notice the difference or maybe my tank's lighting isn't the same as some folks, but I don't understand why something with the Tyree name on it would make it 10X more expensive than another coral without the Tyree name. Like YBeNormal, if I see something that stands out or look nice in their tank, then I will buy it. But I won't jump on it just because it has LE or Tyree name attached to it. Beside, there is no way that I would know if that is of Tyree heritage line or not. Unless DNA testing is done, the only thing I have to go on is somebody's face value.

[stratos21ss]

As someone new to the reefing hobby it looks to me as everything involved in it is way overpriced for what you actually get for your money...beyond livestock, I have found things overall to be generally shoddy in craftsmanship, poorly thought out in design and cheap. Yet the prices are extreme. Most niche hobbies are similar, but it is striking how little value you get for your dollar in this particular hobby. Most of the equipment I have seen even up to the most expensive are made from materials and assembly that do not warrant their high cost. This has carried over into livestock and maybe soon is to get a lot worse with coming attention and legislation.

 

Anyway, I would type more, but now I have to go pick up my LE Tyree Watermelon Alien Chalice and a lot of other cool named stuff from Scott lol..

 

_Matt

[lancer99]

Matt,

I disagree, and I'm not just being contrarian

 

In general, it's an expensive hobby....but in terms of hardware, there are many excellent, reasonably-priced products. You just have learn (and I'm certainly still learning....as is probably everyone here!) to pick the wheat from the chaff.

 

Just a random recommendation...Eheim. Superb craftsmanship, and I don't think you could kill their pumps with a stick.

 

-R

[mogurnda]

I re-read my first post, and it sounds more harsh than I meant. My point was that some of us aren't into that side of coral keeping, and others are, and I am not sure why people get so animated on the subject. I love the look of brightly colored acros, and am glad that someone puts the effort into assembling spectacular SPS tanks (whether or not the corals have names). It's just not my cup of tea.

 

Speaking of expensive corals, Robert, have you heard a price on the black gorgonian we are supposed to be getting?

 

 

You didn't invite anyone else to come with you to Mexico?

Sorry, Scott. I wasn't thinking. My wife had to work today, so I hopped on a bus and found some pyramids. Life is good.

[lancer99]

Did you get all the way up the tallest pyramid at Teotihuacan? The view is great!

 

Dave, I will PM you with the SeaLife correspondence....

 

Que te dispiertes tu tiempo aca en Mexico!

 

I hope that was somewhere close to right

 

-R

[bk_market]

i buy coral by looking at them not the name. I would careless how rare it is unless it look awsome.

[gastone]

The problem is that he is *not* passing them out. With his LE ridiculousness, auctioning them, and creating wait lists for frags that extend five years into the future, he's creating pure hype and an aura of exclusivity.

 

If I labelled my GSP (and I *do* know the lineage, thanks DaveS ) "Limited Edition Atomic Neon Magnum Polyp GSP" on RC, I bet I could get a few suckers, but I'd rather leave frags on the freebie table at WAMAS meetings.

 

I guess it's not in the same "class" as Tyree LEs, but my most of my favorite corals have come from fellow WAMAS members, around $10 for what would cost $50-$70 online, unnamed and hype-free.

 

-R

 

I disagree... mostly to be contrarian. But a 150# dog is resting on my arm and I can't be contrary at the moment. I will be later though.

 

G.