johnnybv December 3, 2011 Share December 3, 2011 Wamas, this is an email that I received from one of our distributors and it rings to close to reality and I think all should take a min to read it. I have no idea who the store is but it really doesnt matter, it could be anyone of us in the area. I DO NOT WANT TO BE INVOLVED IN A DEBATE AND WILL NOT ARGUE WHY YOU SHOULD SUPPORT YOUR LFS, THIS IS JUST AN FYI. John Dec 2 2011 Letter to all accounts: I have been preaching about this for years and everyone should care. This is yet another example proving my point. As everyone looks for new business in the aquatic industry and denies the internet (NON retail store front companies) hurt local retailers, we are destroying the industry long term for short term profits. This is a letter sent out from a store owner to his customers today. I am removing location and name for his protection. I will say this...This is one of the best stores in the country and I have been selling to them for over 25 years. NO one knows any more about what they are doing than these people. What he is saying is true. I will be helping him and any store owner who wants to make positive changes to grow the hobby. I just wish everyone cared about this issue like I do. "Hello Everyone.... If there was ever a newsletter we needed you to read it is this one. XXXXXXXX is in serious trouble. In order to survive we need your support and we need it right away. It deeply troubles me (XXXXX) to have to write this newsletter but I must swallow my pride and be up front about the situation at hand.... There was a time when we saw you good folks at least every two weeks to purchase products and livestock to support your aquariums and ponds. These days we only see many of you only on rare occasions when we run a big sale or when you need some quick item that you couldn't order online. The trend towards purchasing on the internet is killing XXXXXXXX. We have reduced prices on many of the items required to maintain your live animals to try and compete. But understand we cannot sell products and offer excellent customer service and maintain a large aquatic store without making some sort of profit. The cost of having a building you can shop at with knowledgable people to assist you in your needs is built in to the cost of the products and livestock we sell - is it no longer worth paying just a little more for this customer service? If the answer is "no" then we will not be here for you much longer. XXXXXXX cannot survive." We want to graciously thank those of you that have stuck with us and not turned to the internet. Seeing you every week or two (some much more often) has been our pleasure and we hope we can continue to be here for you. But for those of you that have a shelf full of internet goods in your closet - there is a price to pay for you too. The loss of a XXXXXXX Icon in the aquarium industry - XXXXXXX. We need you and we need your support now - not later. Bring your money back to the local community and support your local aquarium store before it no longer can afford to stay in business. Because of the dire situation we find ourselves we are forced to initiate some changes effective immediately. XXXXXXX can no longer afford to offer store credits on trade in livestock. We can only accept them as donations. We will not be selling Gift Certificates any longer. If we do not survive we don't want to leave you good folks holding onto gift certificates that are worthless. To reduce operating costs and labor costs we will now be opening one hour later Tuesday through Friday. Instead of 11am we will be opening at noon. Our weekend store hours will remain the same for now. If you special order any item it will have to be paid in full prior to us ordering it. These are not changes I (XXXXXX) find easy to make but I have no choice at this point. Our survival depends on the local community coming back to support us as an aquatic store - not a convenience store.... We need your support folks.... We need it to survive. XXXXXX - owner of XXXXXXXX" This is sad but all true. I have continued to see people (manufactures and distributors) put their head in the sand and focus on turning the dollars and deny this matters. I am a capitalist and want to make money. However, consider this, We have seen a decrease in stores in the last few years. How much business will we generate as an industry with half as many local stores? Who will drive sales? If anyone thinks the internet can grow our business to compete for peoples time then I would argue you have never kept an aquarium or been involved in the industry...It is the customer experience that matters. I will be sending out an email or letter to every store in America about this. I will also continue to support local stores as long as I am in this industry. I will plead with them to join the ranks and not support any and all that are not in full support of strong local dealers. Imagine if you bought a car online and then could get all of your service online cheaper without sales tax? Would the dealers survive? Just remember you cannot buy a tank online any easier than you can a car. Sure you can do it but who of you have bought a car online lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason the filter freak December 3, 2011 Share December 3, 2011 Thats no good to read, and now that I have the money I tend to try to support local stores. I paid almost double what I would have spent on the internet to buy a CuC the other day to support an LFS. Glad to see its not you going out Johnny. That being said why did I have to spend $30 on a freakin scooter blenny the other day, thats one helluva mark up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjipang December 3, 2011 Share December 3, 2011 Thank you for being in the business BRK. I wish that I can visit you every week, but you are just way too far from me. When I visit you it is more like a pilgrimage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypertech December 3, 2011 Share December 3, 2011 (edited) I read a bunch of complaining from someone who needs to figure out how to adapt. Seriously, trade ins as donations? If its an item they can sell for profit there is no reason they should not offer store credit for whatever they can get the item at wholesale. Thats actually adding the item to inventory below wholesale because store credit costs them less than cash. And yes, I bought a car on the Internet. Here's the deal from today: Saw a two spot goby at the LFS. $35. I would have bought if it ate but it didnt and they offer no guarantee on saltwater fish. Same fish from live aquaria: $13 with a 14 day guarantee. Granted I have to pay shipping, but if I buy two fish, it's cheaper, delivered to my door, and comes with a guarantee. What reason do I have to go to the LFS for a 300% markup and no guarantee? Edited December 3, 2011 by hypertech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vadim December 3, 2011 Share December 3, 2011 i second what hypertech said. you have good aquatic stores that are in business for a reason. because they provide overall great product great customer service and back it up with some kind of guarantee. i go to congressional aquarium every other weekend. i must say they're expensive. But you know what, they offer guarantee, great customer service, and they have pretty good stock. In business you have to adapt, it's all about how the customer wants to buy, either it be via internet, or go to store front. big chain stores know this, which is most of the time the internet pricing is cheaper, to entice the customer to buy from the internet. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightline December 3, 2011 Share December 3, 2011 I read a bunch of complaining from someone who needs to figure out how to adapt. Seriously, trade ins as donations? If its an item they can sell for profit there is no reason they should not offer store credit for whatever they can get the item at wholesale. Thats actually adding the item to inventory below wholesale because store credit costs them less than cash. And yes, I bought a car on the Internet. Here's the deal from today: Saw a two spot goby at the LFS. $35. I would have bought if it ate but it didnt and they offer no guarantee on saltwater fish. Same fish from live aquaria: $13 with a 14 day guarantee. Granted I have to pay shipping, but if I buy two fish, it's cheaper, delivered to my door, and comes with a guarantee. What reason do I have to go to the LFS for a 300% markup and no guarantee? I second this and to add a side note ..... it seams like every time i ask advice from a lfs i eather get way wrong answer or a smart A** reply or they are are RUDE like im wasting there time ???!! ..as I am in wv and pritty far I was recomended a store about 6 months ago (not from this site) but is a lfs vender on this site i will not name it. well i wanted a carpet anem called down there well girl on the phone told me they didnt have any in but could special order me one she siad i had to per pay on special order ok no problem said i would be down that way and stop at the store sat would it be ok to pay then she said sure and told me the price ...well get down there she NOT at work and NO one knows anthing about it...after about an hr guy said he reached her said to give mhim the card info and had me fill out form ...ended up 10.00 more than told on the phone.... said HAD to be picked up tue as they wont unpack for lack of room... heading down tue to pick up get a call sai d didnt come in as i am almost there WTH.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John December 3, 2011 Share December 3, 2011 I read a bunch of complaining from someone who needs to figure out how to adapt. Seriously, trade ins as donations? If its an item they can sell for profit there is no reason they should not offer store credit for whatever they can get the item at wholesale. Thats actually adding the item to inventory below wholesale because store credit costs them less than cash. And yes, I bought a car on the Internet. I've 'donated' livestock to BRK and F&F and expected nothing in return. Same reason you give your mechanic a 6-pack or tip your barber. In fact, I saw my corals in the display tank at the Capital Pet Expo, via BRK via Reef eScape...that was satisfaction enough for me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnybv December 3, 2011 Author Share December 3, 2011 I've 'donated' livestock to BRK and F&F and expected nothing in return. Same reason you give your mechanic a 6-pack or tip your barber. In fact, I saw my corals in the display tank at the Capital Pet Expo, via BRK via Reef eScape...that was satisfaction enough for me... Thank you very much for your support John, its much appreciated! As far as some of the other comments, your LFS has a responsibility to offer you great service and fair pricing. A 300% mark up is not fair pricing, but it also depends how you are calculating that number. The price that you see on an invoice is NEVER what the fish actually costs, you have to add in box charges, heat/cold packs, Airline freight cost (which is ridiculasly expensive right now!) The expense to send someone to the airport and deal with the BS to pick up cargo, (at least 3 hours round trip for us) then of course acclimation and overall costs to run a biz, typical animal husbandry. AS I said, I dont want to start a debate here, I just thought is was worth showing what retail stores in general are dealing with..... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypertech December 3, 2011 Share December 3, 2011 I've 'donated' livestock to BRK and F&F and expected nothing in return. Same reason you give your mechanic a 6-pack or tip your barber. In fact, I saw my corals in the display tank at the Capital Pet Expo, via BRK via Reef eScape...that was satisfaction enough for me... That is such a terrible analogy. If you tip your mechanic or barber it is in appreciation of service you hired them to do. Do you walk into the auto parts store and give them parts to sell? Fwiw, the LFS I went to was not BRK. I have heard nothing but good things about BRK and would like to shop there but it's really far from me and I haven't been able to make the trip yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surf&turf December 3, 2011 Share December 3, 2011 We don't have a very good selection of LFS up this way, only one really. I do buy my supplies and food from them, but when I want livestock, I have to travel to either F&F or BRK, both are about the same distance. I wish you guy's were closer, you'd get sick of seeing me. I don't like ordering livestock from the internet because 9 times out of 10 its not what you ordered, or its a bugger frag that looked a lot bigger in the pic. I do order some dry goods, only because I can't find what I want around here. I hate to see any small business go out, pretty soon it will be nothing but Pet!@#$% and the other one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBVette December 3, 2011 Share December 3, 2011 Johhny, I understand what you posted here and it is not just the LFS its a lot of the mom and pop shops in all segments that have this same problem. Its a shame when people window shop and ask tons of questions of local stores then run to the internet to buy it for a little savings. As for people saying you shouldnt donate anything, I have no problem donating things to BRK or anyone else. I have given Johnny some things before and might take some urchins our of my tank and give them to him as well. For all of the advice they give me, it is well worth donating some small things to them. Hopefully things turn around for you John it would be a real shame if you had to close your doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan December 3, 2011 Share December 3, 2011 This economy does not help. It forces people to look for the bargains and the best buys. The big guys monopolize on it too. They are very competative. I try to support our LFS, but I have to watch my money. It's a dilemma for me. Something I do struggle with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami December 3, 2011 Share December 3, 2011 For me, it's about more than just a single purchase. It's about a relationship. It's about my neighbor. It's about the health, the vitality and the vibrancy of my community. I like a good deal just like the next guy. I understand the economic motive to get the best price. I also understand that the cost of doing business is lower when you have higher volume, national distribution, no brick-and-mortar storefront infrastructure to maintain, and can afford to keep a lesser-paid, lesser knowledgeable people (on average) on staff because of that high volume business; because you can run your operation, in some cases, out and away from the high cost of floorspace; and a because you don't have the burden of having to add state sales tax to your sales because a lot of your customers are out of state. I have a choice. You have a choice. While I don't buy everything locally, I try to do my part to support my neighbor and to support my community. If I can justify keeping my dollars flowing locally, I know that I'm doing a little bit of that. Thankfully, I have the means that allow some measure of local giving that, while not exactly charity, is support that I freely and willingly give. The choice is yours, and while every choice is individual, I sympathize with the author of the original letter and see the dilemma that faces a lot of small businesses today. If you worked in retail at a local mom and pop shop, you might feel the same. The big box stores and big internet retailers are small business killers that change the shape of our communities. One day, maybe we'll all work for them. And, yes, I did buy my car off the Internet, too. But somewhat locally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surf&turf December 3, 2011 Share December 3, 2011 Ok, since we are using liveaquaria as an example, they list a medium CBB @ $35 They also list a Bristle tail file fish @ $30 for a medium. I got both of these fish, with my Wamas discount, for $80 from a Wamas sponsor. Both of these fish were also eating when I picked them up. It would have been $65 plus shipping from liveaquaria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal December 3, 2011 Share December 3, 2011 I go out of my way to purchase supplies and services from individuals and small businesses, knowing that I am paying a higher price for my loyalty. I also avood the self-checkout registers because I know they replace paid workers. That said, I have to live within my means and, like everyone else here, I purchase many items via the internet (including clothes, auto parts, food, etc.). I wonder how many of the local small business owners who complain about Internet purchases can truly say that they do all their shopping at brick and mortar stores? I'll bet there are very few and that most of them are 70+ years old with little or no computer skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowieReefer84 December 4, 2011 Share December 4, 2011 I would love to have a LFS (within 30 min) that I could go to. I go to Today's Pet which is close, and NOT a chain store. I went in to get polyfilter, gfo, and NLS pellets. They had none of these items. Coral tanks covered in hair algae. I ended up on Amazon and BRS... Another store Exotic Aquatics I used to go regularly. I went in to get a dip for frags. They tried to sell me an iodine supplement and told me to "dillute it." I didn't buy it obviously, but someone not knowing better could have. They were even rude in the process. At least give me false information with a smile. House of Tropicals is pretty good, and I have a relationship with multiple employees. My favorite place to go. I go to them whenever possible. Purchased my biocube there, and many of the things in it. From what I hear BRS, F&F, and some other far away stores are very nice, and I wish them the best in this horrible economy. Unlike liquor stores that strive in any economy fish stores have it tough I can imagine. ps- I bought my car online too. Went to pick it up, and everything was ready when I got there... sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlem December 4, 2011 Share December 4, 2011 (edited) I've read many "support your LFS when you can" threads, but I'm still confused what the purpose of this thread is for... Is it to remind us to buy local and instead of online? or is it to help this particular store? or is it to blame us for not supporting LFS enough? Edited December 4, 2011 by hlem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onux20 December 4, 2011 Share December 4, 2011 I've read many "support your LFS when you can" threads, but I'm still a confused what the purpose of this thread is for... Is it to remind us to buy local and instead of online? or is it to help this particular store? or is it to blame us for not supporting LFS enough? No blame anywhere in the original post. Just a reminder to think of our LFS's first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami December 4, 2011 Share December 4, 2011 I've read many "support your LFS when you can" threads, but I'm still confused what the purpose of this thread is for... Is it to remind us to buy local and instead of online? or is it to help this particular store? or is it to blame us for not supporting LFS enough? I don't think that we know what store it is, Hlem. Johnny just posted something he got from a distributor who got it from somewhere else. Who knows if it's true or not? Even so, it rings true even if we can't ascribe authorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanglandJoshua December 4, 2011 Share December 4, 2011 I've been hearing from shop owners since I started in this hobby over a year ago that times have not been kind to our LFS. Since I'm upgrading my tank one part at a time I've made a point to shop as often as I can at one LFS. We all have our favorite shop, and even more reasons for our opinions. What matters is that these men and women do work hard. Their jobs, homes, and families are all counting on the success of the business. Unfortunately I have never gotten to check out BRK. I hope to, as soon as my work permits...so instead of trying to figure out if a letter is real or fake we should consider the message it was meant to send. This is why I stopped running BRS group buys. They are growing at an amazing rate, while our neighbors are looking for new work. Of course if it is a "bad" shop we as consumers don't have to shop there. I know a perfect example of one I don't go to, because I don't feel they care properl for their livestock. They also have insanely high prices, but refuse to order any gear invented within this decade...or the least for that matter. Not to mention they have been very ride to me, even when I shopped there weekly. So I don't go there. I hope all our LFS can take advantage of the "increased spending" that I've heard so much about on the news. It would be sad for any good shop to be forced to close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incredible Corals December 4, 2011 Share December 4, 2011 (edited) Can WAMAS survive without the lfs paying the monthly fees? What happens with then lfs' budgets tighten up and have to stop paying? Would there be a WAMAS? If WAMAS can survive without the monthly fees from sponsors why not significantly reduce the fees to give back to the sponsors that have given so much over the years? Maybe that extra money would go to 1 more part time employee for 1 extra day or even more livestock for greater selection. Couldn't hurt. If I were to open a lfs in this area, WAMAS doesn't seem like a smart investment to spend precious advertising dollars. Edited December 4, 2011 by forrealb50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k December 4, 2011 Share December 4, 2011 this is just like the argument of : Walmart vs. the hardware store or any other small town general stores. Petsmart/Petco vs. the mom and pop pet stores. This is a changing world and like everything that goes thru change, this means that somewhere, some people and jobs will be passed over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan December 4, 2011 Share December 4, 2011 Passed over? How about go internet too! Ebay and craigslist. Advertisement and selling to the masses is key in business. this is just like the argument of : Walmart vs. the hardware store or any other small town general stores. Petsmart/Petco vs. the mom and pop pet stores. This is a changing world and like everything that goes thru change, this means that somewhere, some people and jobs will be passed over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armydoc December 4, 2011 Share December 4, 2011 I struggle with this situation as well.There are extremes at both ends - folk who are totally dissatisfied with brick and morter and only by on-line, and those that would rather drive 50 miles to walk in a door than order over the internet. I expect most of us are in between. But I think LFS could improve their customer service, mainly by not stopping when I walk out the door. How about the occasional follow-up call or email to see how stuff is going? Or help with (courtesy) delivery of large items? I think the occasional time investment on part of the business is a better way to maintain loyalty than the gimmicky "point" systems that have sprouted up lately. Overall, I'm a free market guy. I just think that local retailers need to step up their customer service game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlem December 4, 2011 Share December 4, 2011 Overall, I'm a free market guy. I just think that local retailers need to step up their customer service game. that and actually try and compete by advertising products, new arrive, etc etc... I've said this before, but i'll say it again... I cant support you if I dont know what you have to offer... "come and try us out" doesnt cut it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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