surf&turf December 7, 2011 Share December 7, 2011 Any chance one of the local LFS' might begin carrying PB&J sandwiches? I'd order them online but they usually arrive soggy and stale. GO to the store and buy the ones that Smuckers make, they are excellent!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Lazar December 7, 2011 Share December 7, 2011 Once I find a car mechanic I can trust, I continue to take my car to them even if somewhere else is cheaper. I feel the same way about my LFS. For me, having that sort of relationship is worth the extra money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind December 7, 2011 Share December 7, 2011 Once I find a car mechanic I can trust, I continue to take my car to them even if somewhere else is cheaper. I feel the same way about my LFS. For me, having that sort of relationship is worth the extra money. I totally agree! A good LFS is definately worth the extra money and some times that extra milage to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surf&turf December 7, 2011 Share December 7, 2011 Once I find a car mechanic I can trust, I continue to take my car to them even if somewhere else is cheaper. I feel the same way about my LFS. For me, having that sort of relationship is worth the extra money. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vadim December 8, 2011 Share December 8, 2011 i vote for closing this thread lol:clap: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjipang December 8, 2011 Share December 8, 2011 I think a benefit of this post was the free market research. Some have clearly articulated what they deem important and consider value added when pondering a purchase. If a LFS can distill these posts and come up with a cost effective way to meet some or all of the wants, they may be able to capture more foot traffic, sales, and loyalty. Not easy or free. But if running your own business was either of those things... I also agree.... In the midst of the frustrations, opinions, etc, we see people expressing their views. I believe most LFS is not in it for the money (I can think of many more businesses they can open with less headaches), and they can really take what everyone says and make an assessment of what are the takeaways. They cannot be all things to all people, but at the very least everyone who post here is a potential/existing customers for them. I personally learn a lot from this post, and it makes me think a lot. WAMAS is a diverse group with a dedicated core group, and many members benefiting from the wealth of knowledge in the community. Rarely do I see a thread where people say things from their experience, their heart, and their frustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triple December 8, 2011 Share December 8, 2011 I have a great relationship with my online dealers. Even if I haven't ordered from them before I get treated like I've spent a million there. I don't want to have to be a regular customer for them to give me 5 star treatment. That should happen with all customers, that's how you keep them. I am getting a hammerhead pump for my tank, which I can get online for $389 w/ free shipping, the cheapest I found from at a LFS was $450, and I would then have to drive 3 hours total to pick it up. Like I've said before I don't mind spending an extra 10-15% more from a LFS, if my pump was to die I think I'd be FORCED to go to a LFS and spend almost $100 more with gas. I shouldn't feel like I'm being forced to go to a LFS. This isn't an issue of quality either, the Hammerhead I get online is going to be exactly like the one in store. I'm sorry that I don't have an excuse to spend time and money at an lfs. they don't seem to have any more to offer me than online retailers (the ones that I shop at regularly are small business btw, just bc they're using this new fangled technology doesn't make them big retailers). I stop by whenever I'm in the area. I do try to support you lfs, I do. I entered this conversation over the effort it takes to support lfs vs online. I offered suggestions of having an inventory list or posting more things online as a help. If I see something I like for the price I want to pay I'll stop in and more than likely buy even more. Rioreef - a bunch of us are in this hobby bc we love it, not bc its a status symbol and we can afford it. Yeah it's expensive, and some of us can't afford to spend extra. So this is my first post but this is something very important to me. So please do not take it personally. Your statements do not make sense to me. I won't even go into the relationship with someone you have not done business with before. I own a small business so I have an idea of what John is saying. So with the price difference on the hammerhead. On one hand you say you don't mind spending the EXTRA 10-15%, on the other you say that with gas and time it is to much. How much money is living in your tank now? Is it more than $100? What happens when that LFS isn't there for you when your pump does goes down? Who do you complain to then? The internet? On the other hand UPS does have a service called Sonic Air. It would be about $700 for same day delivery. Trust me I know I have used it. The thing is there will always be somebody cheaper, ALWAYS. The question is will they be there when you NEED them? And I mean really NEED them. My customers know that I am not and will not be the cheapest solution for them. They also know that I will bend over backwards and try to fix their problems and give them as much technical support as I can. The last few weekends I have been stopping by the local LFS to see what they have and to show my face. I stopped by BRK and took a look around. I was asked if I needed any help and declined as I am just looking right now. There was a young woman with her daughter looking to buy some of the chaeto and had no idea about it. The person that was helping her probably spent 10-20 minutes with her. I assume the sale was under $20. What is the profit margin on that? My point is without the local stores you will not get new people into the hobby, you will not have a place to buy things when you are FORCED to buy them. (As your pump does down and you tank IS going to die) This is one of the most expensive hobby's in one of the most expensive areas. Spend your money where you make it and we will all benefit from it! I will be setting up my tank in the next few weeks and will only buy on the internet if I am FORCED to! So please someone tell me who has the best live rock around, locally of course. John, see you soon to talk about some rock. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal December 8, 2011 Share December 8, 2011 Welcome to WAMAS Scott! Please consider becoming a member and hanging around for a while. In spite of what you might think from this thread, we don't bite. Well, other than PB&J sandwiches of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triple December 8, 2011 Share December 8, 2011 Welcome to WAMAS Scott! Please consider becoming a member and hanging around for a while. In spite of what you might think from this thread, we don't bite. Well, other than PB&J sandwiches of course! I will be here and I will pay my dues. (This is a local forum, right?) This tread is exactly what needs to be put on the table in this economy. If not we will only be able to shop at Walmart and go to dinner at Applebees and Dominos. I would starve and not have a stitch of clothes if that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan December 8, 2011 Share December 8, 2011 LOL! Any chance one of the local LFS' might begin carrying PB&J sandwiches? I'd order them online but they usually arrive soggy and stale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal December 8, 2011 Share December 8, 2011 If you are in the Washington DC area, then yes, WAMAS is local. Most of our members are in MD and VA, but we have members all over the US and maybe even some oversees. I look forward to meeting you someday and to hearing more from you on the forum. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami December 8, 2011 Share December 8, 2011 So this is my first post but this is something very important to me. So please do not take it personally. Your statements do not make sense to me. I won't even go into the relationship with someone you have not done business with before. I own a small business so I have an idea of what John is saying. So with the price difference on the hammerhead. On one hand you say you don't mind spending the EXTRA 10-15%, on the other you say that with gas and time it is to much. How much money is living in your tank now? Is it more than $100? What happens when that LFS isn't there for you when your pump does goes down? Who do you complain to then? The internet? On the other hand UPS does have a service called Sonic Air. It would be about $700 for same day delivery. Trust me I know I have used it. The thing is there will always be somebody cheaper, ALWAYS. The question is will they be there when you NEED them? And I mean really NEED them. My customers know that I am not and will not be the cheapest solution for them. They also know that I will bend over backwards and try to fix their problems and give them as much technical support as I can. The last few weekends I have been stopping by the local LFS to see what they have and to show my face. I stopped by BRK and took a look around. I was asked if I needed any help and declined as I am just looking right now. There was a young woman with her daughter looking to buy some of the chaeto and had no idea about it. The person that was helping her probably spent 10-20 minutes with her. I assume the sale was under $20. What is the profit margin on that? My point is without the local stores you will not get new people into the hobby, you will not have a place to buy things when you are FORCED to buy them. (As your pump does down and you tank IS going to die) This is one of the most expensive hobby's in one of the most expensive areas. Spend your money where you make it and we will all benefit from it! I will be setting up my tank in the next few weeks and will only buy on the internet if I am FORCED to! So please someone tell me who has the best live rock around, locally of course. John, see you soon to talk about some rock. Scott Thank you for tossing in your two cents, Scott. I've weighed in already with a similar viewpoint. One thing that I'd like to add. It needs to be recognized that those that do make a conscious effort to support their LFS help to keep the doors open for EVERYONE so that emergencies like you've illustrated can be addressed immediately. If you want to have that LFS there for you when you really need them - whether it's an emergency where the thousands of dollars you have in your tank is at risk, or if it's just that you need a bulkhead quickly and cheaply (without a shipping upcharge of 200%) - then consider taking on your share of the responsibility (rather than leaving it to others to keep the doors open for you) and make the effort to at least shop local when you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vadim December 8, 2011 Share December 8, 2011 i smell something fishy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami December 8, 2011 Share December 8, 2011 i smell something fishy I smell PBJ sandwiches.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triple December 8, 2011 Share December 8, 2011 If you are in the Washington DC area, then yes, WAMAS is local. Most of our members are in MD and VA, but we have members all over the US and maybe even some oversees. I look forward to meeting you someday and to hearing more from you on the forum. Bob Sorry that was my sarcasm. I live in Springfield Va, my shop is in Alexandria. Also if anyone has a diesel engine (in a car, truck, farm tractor, generator, etc) I am more than will to share my knowledge on the fuel injection systems. By the way beautiful woodwork. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypertech December 8, 2011 Share December 8, 2011 The thing is there will always be somebody cheaper, ALWAYS. The question is will they be there when you NEED them? And I mean really NEED them. My customers know that I am not and will not be the cheapest solution for them. They also know that I will bend over backwards and try to fix their problems and give them as much technical support as I can. Welcome Scott! I understand what you are saying here, but I have a different take on it. I don't even think we can count on the LFS as they are right now to be there when you NEED them as many are closed for several days in a row. Even if they are open, there's a good chance they won't have the exact pump you need in stock. So, IMHO, the true answer to your hypothetical is to be prepared for a failure so that you can (1) wait till the LFS opens or (2) wait for a replacement to be shipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal December 8, 2011 Share December 8, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypertech December 8, 2011 Share December 8, 2011 I'm not going to bed till you agree to put honey on your sandwich........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami December 8, 2011 Share December 8, 2011 Bob, you come up with the funniest stuff sometimes.... I'm not headed for bed just yet, but I am going home. It's been a long work day. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal December 8, 2011 Share December 8, 2011 By the way beautiful woodwork. Scott Thanks Scott! I'm not going to bed till you agree to put honey on your sandwich........... You're going to be real tired by the time I come by your house tomorrow then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vadim December 8, 2011 Share December 8, 2011 this is getting way to pg rated for me, likings of woodwork and pbj's with honey. whats going on here? and me smelling something fishy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triple December 8, 2011 Share December 8, 2011 Welcome Scott! I understand what you are saying here, but I have a different take on it. I don't even think we can count on the LFS as they are right now to be there when you NEED them as many are closed for several days in a row. Even if they are open, there's a good chance they won't have the exact pump you need in stock. So, IMHO, the true answer to your hypothetical is to be prepared for a failure so that you can (1) wait till the LFS opens or (2) wait for a replacement to be shipped. Option #1 will be removed if they can not make some kind of living. I do not believe they are closed for a few days a week going on vacation with the triple digit profits they are making. This is not just about the LFS. This is about every small business in the area. We all have choices in the way we spend our money. As I live here, pay taxes here, employ people here I do everything I can to support OUR local economy. And I won't start on the no sales tax on internet sales. But than again you are not driving on the roads that some of those taxes would pay for. Good thing we don't have a traffic problem in Northern Va. Okay I am done, first posts here and it just hit close to home. Heading to New Orleans for a long weekend and when I get back will start setting up the nano. It's all good! Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanglandJoshua December 8, 2011 Share December 8, 2011 (edited) Perfection... Someone mentioned that we "know"this is an expensive hobby before we get into it. This is in no way an attack. My friend, your wrong. Many of us have a harsh intro into this beautiful hobby. I started helping my oceanography teacher (2 years before I could take the class) when I was waiting for a ride after school. It was just love of the fish, and a good conversation that brought me in. I got a free 55 gal tank, and resealed it. Then thought I could set it up cheaply. I was dead wrong. With my skill level I was lucky the fish lived. Let alone the coral. I told a couple shop owners exactly what I had. They swore that a fluval 405 filter and 23lbs of live rock (just one big rock) would support several fish and coral. It did, for a while. Then I couldn't keep chemical levels in check, the T5HO lights couldn't support an anemone at the bottom of the tank. The fish would fight endlessly. I asked if I could trade in a fish for store credit, because I was strapped for cash. With my love of the hobby and a bit much too much pride I would not fail. So I've worked hard , taken advantage of EVERY opportunity this great club has given. Best of all, I've never shopped there since! I liked the space, the man was nice, but when he lied to me and ripped me off... then later told me that of course it would not work. He lost a lifetime customer. Now my tank is finally what I want, and coming closer to completion. I've never been to BRK, or F&F but when I finally have the free time I'll be by! I shop at both online and retail LFS. Here are some things I would suggest for an LFS. Understand I do not know your costs of business, and am no business pro. However a year of retail has given me some ideas, as well as tought me a lot. A weekly list of your stock. Online, with a pic. I don't care if its an actual pc of the fish. This lets us pick at a glance. But brings us in to question and research. An app would be great, the Marine Scene has one I love. But I wish it were a complete list of stock, maybe if you tied it into your computers to help mark items that have sold automatically. This could help avoid further complications or wasting of anyone's time. It could also be updated more. I went in two days after a shipment, while I was in the store I looked and found stuff that was not online. Yet I also found stuff not in the store. It could be an amazing tool for tracking inventory as well as confirming arrival with your suppliers. Using simple inventory programs could automatically work with a computer to automatically upstate a simple online inventory list or app shopping page. I could see someone with a tablet computer going through their stocking list taking a pic and confirming arrival. Simple software should be able to easily convert the basic care info already in a database, picture, and arrival confirmation into a web page. I work at a safeway kiosk (starbucks) and handle receiving our orders. I know that something like this is constantly going through my mind as I bring in orders. Double checking everything. As well as wishing I had an efficient way to confirm everything arrived. We have issues every week because of either shipping problems or "management error". Meaning my manager forgot to order it, put in the wrong code, looked it over, or better yet just got tired and sent an incomplete order.... If you track it as you use it, orders are much easier. Better still having something to reference just in case something was missed could only do good for you. If she had something like that life would be much better for the rest of us...and when I sent orders oddly enough we HAD what we NEEDED! I would love to see some form of guarantee, not much. Just one to cover fish that die within 3-4 days. Just because I've had a healthy tank, and bought a seemingly healthy fish...then boom 16 hours into owning this new baby fish white spots appear. Within a day its obviously sick. And then after three days I never see it again. A powder brown tang, one I was told would do perfectly in my tank, dies...I call up the store I bought it from and surprise he smacks me with something he conveniently forgot to tell me..."well it is a very sensative fish, that does not do well with transport. We also don't guarantee any of our saltwater fish any ways.". Thanks bud for not letting me know before hand it was sensative. For me to shop at a store they need to be able to say, "I know you like the look of the fish, but its not going to do well with your (insert name here)". If they will turn down a sale to take good care of me and my investment then you've got a loyal customer! I won't share the shops I had issues with, but I wont shop there. However to marine scene and Matt, thanks for the advice on the cleaner wrasse, though after seeng a tank with one that left LPS and clams alone, I think I'm gonna try it. Surprise, if I do have an issue it will be turned in. I know the risk and appreciate your help! There is no way I would ask for my money back if I'm fully informed and still try it. If I'm wrong then I must bow to your infinite wisdom! I can't wait to drop by again, even if don't get the wrasse that day! Deals for buy over $X then get X% off if you chat with a manager or owner. That would be great! There was a thread a while back about group buys at LFS, an employee(manager?) said he would be glad to do a small GB for someone if given the chance. I had about 10 things I needed and immediately enquired about a bulk deal since they would total above $500. The most I expected was $20 off, maybe $30. Instead I was turned down. He said that he couldn't drop his price at all unless he ordered 15 or more of one thing. Which sounds odd to me, if a total of $100(random #) is on the line I would go ahead with $10-20 off if I were him. I've seen managers lose money on product to make sure they keep the customer, but would not ever expect that from an LFS. I would have even been happy with $10-15 off because I really liked the store, I was just short a few bucks. It happens to the best of us. Of course I didn't want to tell him that, so I let it be. With that, I had to order online since I really needed to place the order that week or run out of supplies the next. So I had to go online where when I ordered over $X I got a good bit of cash off. Though with free shipping I saved over $100 from what I would have spent at the LFS, I would have preffered to buy from the LFS. I believe that a LFS can adapt, it won't be cheap or easy. But going online could change everything for you. Maybe your business is not ready, or you just don't want to. I fear that some of these places will go away in the next 5 years if something does not change, and we both know it won't be the customers. I only wish success to all of you who work hard and care about your customers/livestock. I've known many people who "had" to go to one place because it was within 1 hour from them. But wished the stores they loved had a updated stock list so they could support it, and place orders without calling they day to check. Just think of how you feel when someone is "stealing" your customers, well their online and casting a wider net. I doubt they know which LFS their customers shop at. But we all are online, and we all want you to stay. Ahh now I can go to bed! Edited December 8, 2011 by LanglandJoshua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trockafella December 8, 2011 Share December 8, 2011 Its a shame we live in the age of entitlement. People are so lazy, so cheap, and so unappreciative. Just remember this... When all your LFS are gone, and online is the only thing left, there prices will rise bc they dont have to compete with LFS' anymore. So keep shopping and praising your online fish stores, because im sure there going to be there for you in the end. I have dealt with and got to know both Johnny and Sean, all I can say is there both great. There not just there to sell you things, but to help you succeed and truly enjoy the hobby. People are complianing that they dont have what you want in stock, well have you reached out to them about that item. They can and will get you what you want. Sean recently ordered and made sure I was getting the healthiest fish in the exact size I wanted, he even asked if he could keep it in QT for an extra week to ensure its health and well being. So when did your online store do that for you.? They didnt, because they dont care, your just another grain of sand on the beach to them. Johnny has been there with parts when I needed them, both of these guyts will stay late waiting on you, get there early if need be, spend all the time you want trying to help you and answer your questions. They dont charge you for this, and maybe they should. I too, value my dollar and how I spend it, thats why I dont deal with some of or LFS, but several of them go above and beyond to help out there customers. Just to play devils advocate, some of the LFS are wayyyy over priced and dont have anything close to the quality to match there prices (not BRK & FnF ).. I can understand some peoples frustrations, I watched one of our sponsors knowing sell fish with ich, things like this are not helping the cause. Unfortunately the few bad apples are spoiling the bunch. Im not saying do ALL your business with LFS, but give them a chance. If you need that specialty fish/coral etc, Call John or Sean and see what they can do for you, you just might be suprised. But it seems that a lot of people here want John and Sean to call them and ask them what they want. Unfortuantely it seems the vast majority of WAMASers are genuinely CHEAP( which is different from thrifty). Sorry, but we all know its true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extreme_tooth_decay December 8, 2011 Share December 8, 2011 Post #100 is mine! All mine! Now where did I put that Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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