LFS going out of business.....

[hypertech]

That's true. I can window shop from the computer for free. Getting to the LFS costs me a lot in time and fuel.

[johnnybv]

You guys that just dont get it, thats fine. The reason for this thread was to alert this beloved club that your LFS are all in trouble! No one wants to be the one to say it but it is true, this letter could have been from any one of us and been true. If there is an LFS that is thriving right now I apoligize and please contact me. This is not a game to me, this is life. For those of you that do get it, thank you and we all appreciate your support, I hope that we can all make it through these tough economic times.

 

As I mentioned earlier I am not going to defend why you should buy from an LFS, I was simply sharing an interesteing letter that really hit home. Take it for what it is worth to you.

 

Thanks,

John

[Wrench]

John,

 

I have always been happy with the service from you and your employees at your store. You were the first place I called when I bought an Aquacontroller. You were willing to ship it for me since I'm almost two hours away. Thats good service. I'd rather buy locally and am willing to pay more but there's a limit. For example, my LFS has Koralia Magnum 7 powerheads marked $269.98. The same pump can be had online for around $90.

[hypertech]

You guys that just dont get it, thats fine. The reason for this thread was to alert this beloved club that your LFS are all in trouble! No one wants to be the one to say it but it is true, this letter could have been from any one of us and been true. If there is an LFS that is thriving right now I apoligize and please contact me. This is not a game to me, this is life. For those of you that do get it, thank you and we all appreciate your support, I hope that we can all make it through these tough economic times.

 

As I mentioned earlier I am not going to defend why you should buy from an LFS, I was simply sharing an interesteing letter that really hit home. Take it for what it is worth to you.

 

Thanks,

John

 

I don't think its a question of getting it and you're right, it absolutely is not a game. Its more of a different perspective really. I'd like to see good LFS stay in business and do well. But, its just not going to happen on the sympathy of customers. That perspective, the one in the letter, is one that will have a hard time surviving (IMHO). To be successful, the LFS, like any business, needs to adapt to meet the needs of its customers.

[rocko918]

fall on deaf ears

[Jan]

To be successful, the LFS, like any business, needs to adapt to meet the needs of its customers.

 

How? BRK and F&F's go above and beyond for many of us. This has been my personal experience with both. When I walk into either one of these stores. They know me. I'm always greated with a smile. They're very attentive to me. I'm treated with great care. I'm treated like a valued customer and a friend.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Jan

[hypertech]

It's a general letter and my comments are mostly general in nature though I did give a specific example above. They aren't a critique of either of those stores.

 

As I said, I've heard nothing but good things about BRK but haven't made it to shop there personally yet.

[Jan]

The only thing I agree with out of all these posts is that the little guy needs to "adapt" with the times to stay in business. They're there when it comes to great customer service. In order to keep up with the times maybe they need to use the tools available to them and try to pull in more business. Go nation wide with the internet. There are several sellers of reef related items as well as livestock that sell on Ebay. Some don't have store fronts. Many have just taken their business and added an internet component. So they're pulling in income from another source. It doesn't just happen. It takes some work, creativity and thought. Anyone can make a buisness on ebay. If you're already a business you can use your existing logo and customer mailing lists to pull in more business. An established name carrys much weight. People who know of them will look for them. Just my thoughts.

[Incredible Corals]

The only thing I agree with out of all these posts is that the little guy needs to "adapt" with the times to stay in business. They're there when it comes to great customer service. In order to keep up with the times maybe they need to use the tools available to them and try to pull in more business. Go nation wide with the internet. There are several sellers of reef related items as well as livestock that sell on Ebay. Some don't have store fronts. Many have just taken their business and added an internet component. So they're pulling in income from another source. It doesn't just happen. It takes some work, creativity and thought. Anyone can make a buisness on ebay. If you're already a business you can use your existing logo and customer mailing lists to pull in more business. An established name carrys much weight. People who know of them will look for them. Just my thoughts.

 

 

The online retailers are able provide these lower prices because they don

[extreme_tooth_decay]

This thread is an interesting read.

 

Like everyone else, I don't have any answers, just my own observations about my own habits:

 

->Unless I need something right now, I usually buy online.

Even though I can easily afford it, I just can't stomach paying twice as much (or more) and getting a worse guarantee.

There are times I need something right now and am willing to pay that extra 100 or 200%, though.

The business model of selling pumps people can buy for $90 for $270 does not seem sustainable.

 

->On the other hand, I do enjoy going to LFS to look around and browse, and I do buy things there, but mostly "on the spur".

I drive up to That Fish Place a couple times a year, so I don't think I am lazy or uncommitted,

but it is easy (and fun!) to shop at home in my underwear at midnight...I like convenience like anyone else.

 

->Most of the LFS around here don't have the livestock selection to bring me in.

 

-> I hate to see LFS go out of business. Down the road from me, first Wally's, then Superpetz...but, the sad fact is, especially in this economy...

At least now I can take my dirty laundry to the "new" Wally's and enjoy watching the spin cycle. Spin, spin,spin. Last time I was at Wally's had a softball sized chunk of LR with aiptasia and some common corals on it for $200.

 

->When threatened with cheaper/better/different/satanic (choose your own word) online competition, retailers in other industries have found ways to embrace "online" instead of fight it. Become more complimentary with each other. I am not sure what the best way to do this is for a LFS, and obviously this is the crux here, but I would think this basic mindset/viewpoint is important.

[Sharkey18]

Thanks to Origami for his comments.

 

Keep in mind a few things about going to a small business. It really does support the local community.

 

I am a small business owner. I employ 35 people who live in the Arlington / Metro Dc area. That's 35 LOCAL people who can afford to live and spend money in the community.

I also pay more in taxes than most large companies because I don't have a lobbyist.

 

Keep in mind that your lfs can't absorb losses as well as giant companies. If a large company orders 500 clown fish and 100 of them arrive dead.... no big deal to them. They paid less per fish to start with and can still make a profit. I am not saying that this happens or that they don't care... I am just saying that this is how it works. Large businesses get better prices because they buy in bulk. That's how Walmart and home depot do it as well.

 

I also adapt. All businesses must adapt to changing times if they want to be around for any length of time. My competition has increased 5 fold in the past 5 years and I assure you I adapted when that happened. Any one who thinks they shouldn't have to adapt will not be around. BUT we can only adapt so much and sometimes there is nothing we can do to compete with the really big guys.

 

That's where YOU come in. If you value having a LFS or hardware store or pet store then you can try and make an effort to buy there, at least when the costs might be close. The $5 more you pay for that fish or hammer or bag of dog food is going to LOCAL people. That is a benefit to everyone. If you don't see it that way, that's cool too.

 

The internet is changing a LOT of things. Music, TV, movies.... who knows where it will end up. KNow anyone who runs a movie theater? They are heading in the direction of the drive in. Movies only run for a week or two these days because no one goes! Does anyone remember when they had a local book store? I do and guess what? I don't miss my local book store. Sad but true. But I digress...

 

There are costs and benefits to both. LFS are here now, they may be gone in the future. Hard to say. If you value yours, support it. If you don't care or just need to get the absolute best price so you can stay in the hobby, well then do that. Just try and be aware of the ripple effects of your decisions.

 

I buy online AND at my lfs but I really try to go to small businesses anytime I can for anything I need.

 

Just my very rambling $.02... Crap I gotta get to WORK! :-)

[Jan]

In addition to this hobby I buy and sell vintage glass from the early 1900s on eBay. I've been doing this for about 4 years. Like everything new you have to take baby steps. it would be foolish to throw an entire established business onto the internet. Spending a couple of hours a day putting together frag packs, taking pics and setting up an auction won't take away from a day to day business. Especially with the losses in traffic they are encountering. Shipping merchandise twice a week won't cause an established business to shut their doors because they can't attend to their store. Baby steps! It would be foolish to try and compete with the big guys. It would be smart and profitable to dip into the same pot. It all takes want. You have to want it bad enough and you have to work it. Folks that deal on the internet know how easy it is.

[Ryan S]

this is just like the argument of :

Walmart vs. the hardware store or any other small town general stores.

Petsmart/Petco vs. the mom and pop pet stores.

 

This is a changing world and like everything that goes thru change, this means that somewhere, some people and jobs will be passed over.

 

Dead on. It's sad but true. As time goes on, there will continue to be fewer and fewer local stores, whether it's fish, hardware, electronics, you name it. As online/big box get bigger and bigger, and gain stores... I don't see many local stores being in business 50 years from now. But I could be wrong. In fact, I absolutely hope I am wrong.

[Vadim]

i am not trying to advertise for anyone just trying to use for an example on here, but anyone here that live near congressional aquarium, visit there store on a thursday, friday, saturday, or sunday. they're usually packed. Why are they packed with customers? They're the most expensive LFS i've been too. One of the reasons i believe they're packed is because every week i see coupons for them, i get them direct mail, i see them in those local coupon magazines and i bet it has to be there location, i don't see that from any other LFS. All i get are e-mails and one would think that e-mailing is pretty limited on reaching new customers. I've had my own business before, to me it's all about adapting to the customers, adapting to economy, I wonder why mr.coral has changed his model a little bit? great topic, but at the end i think it's just how bad the owner wants to survive and how creative he/she can get.

[rrubberbandman]

Sounds so very common....2 things I have come up with.....

I work for Giant and our biggest threat is "WAL-MART".......

Go figure!

I order the majority (90%) of my chrysler auto parts online.....

where from?....An actual dodge dealer in Kansas that has internet only pricing that blows the local dealers away!

Go Figure.....

The internet can work with you not against you !

Bryan

[SunWyrm]

I've worked at several LFS over the years... and to those staff that aren't knowledgeable...what's wrong with you? It's your job-if even temporary, you should care at least somewhat about the thing it is that you do, to research what it is you are caring for and trying to sell. My bosses used to send me home with books and caresheets. I would take it a step farther and look up everything on the internets. And in this day - GOOGLE IT at work! Kids have smart phones now, your boss has a computer with internet - search for it while your customer is there. If you don't know don't make up something that sounds smart (what I was told to do when I worked at one big name store) and don't just look in a book your company sells and get a generic "yes this fish is reef safe-with caution". A quick google, liveaquaria, or wiki search can tell you everything your customer wants to know. Do it covertly and you'll get bonus points for your lfs having knowledgeable staff, don't do it covertly and you'll look like you genuinely want to help your customer.

 

The same goes for us customers - many of us have smart phones, even if your lfs doesn't have all the facts and you didn't research before you got there live aquaria has a search app among others to enable those of us who impulse buy Plus that should give you more opinions than just that of your LFS (good opinions they may be). They may not have heard that this fish hates that fish or might have only have heard horror stories about this invert.

 

Sorry about my rant and +1 to the ebay store. One online store that I shop at also has an ebay store. Even posting pics of what you just got in to facebook or wamas would help us drool more over those things and make us feel like it's worth the gas to come see you if we know you have something that we want. Have a stock list that's updated fairly often. Even not seeing a picture - if I need a fish sooner rather than later, I want to buy it from you but I don't want to call every lfs within and hours drive and ask if you have them and comparison shop prices over the phone. We do get good customer service from our sponsors, but I've been getting some awesome (dare I say better?) service from online dealers as well via email and phone. They're stepping up their game.

 

And the shopping for a car vs fish online? I don't have to sit in a fish for 2+ hrs a day but if I know I already like it and it's cheaper online... I'd get it online.

 

 

[rocko918]

Something that a lot of people forget. Most of the Local Fish Stores do not just sell fish and corals. That is not where the money is. Marine scene has a huge maintenance presence, Cozy Clown fish is pretty much all maintenance, F&F's is also a pet shop, BRK is mainly Koi and Pond building/ maintenance. For people to say "its easy, just put a little more effort in, or just start selling online with ebay" is almost insulting. Do you think these guys/gals sit around all day with there hand in the tanks? Do you think they only have 2 or 3 tanks to maintain? Do you think about the cost of turning on 30 or 40 tanks with lights? People are always looking for a way at home to reduce their electric bills. What about the shops that run coral systems????

 

All your suggestions cost more money. Advertising is not free, cost of boxes, bags, shipping all cost money. Employees to pack, update, take pictures, ship all take away from time in the store and people complain that employees are not around or dont know what they are talking about. Everything cost money and if people are not coming in to buy anything because they can get it online and be lazy, then there will be no money for the shops to advertise or do any ordering.

 

If you don't support any lfs then dont expect them to change or be around much longer.

[hypertech]

If the money isn't in fish and corals and the profits are in maintenance, other pet goods, and koi/pond building/maintenance, why then would they care if we all shop online. There must be some money in it or there wouldn't be such a fuss. Its a good idea to diversify your offerings. Before I moved here, I never would have thought about combining a greenhouse with a saltwater fish store, but apparently it works.

 

No one has suggested there aren't costs to doing business. Whoever packed that box at the internet seller got paid and it came from a tank consuming electricity too. Every business has costs. I also don't think there is any correlation between shopping online and being lazy. I probably spend far more time looking at different places and reading reviews and comparisons when I buy online precisely because I can't see the stuff before I purchase. When I buy local, I walk in, look, decide if I like it and if it is being offered for a fair price and buy.

 

I "support the LFS" when they have stuff I like at a reasonable price. I don't expect them to beat online prices, but I won't pay triple either. I think there is a way for there to be an LFS, but if they just can't compete, then I guess there won't be any. I don't buy into the pay triple or there won't be an LFS theory though.

[rocko918]

seems like everyone is saying " hey just put more effort in and we will come, show me what you got so i can decide if i want to come or not, why should i shop there if i can get it online and not leave my house"

 

they have other things to do then to cater to frugal wamas members. I am not saying you should pay triple and you know just as well as i do that that is not the norm around here.

[hypertech]

Maybe it isn't at BRK and F&F, but it is exactly what they do at the LFS closest to my house. The next closest is Roozens and I do go there time to time and have bought things.

 

The point about show me what you got is that if BRK is where its at I have no way to know that and would have to give up a half day and associated fuel money just to go see what they have.

[rocko918]

that's right you have NEVER been there, how can you say anything about them. are you on there fb page? or their mailing list?

 

2 way street, people need to put in an effort too.

Edited December 7, 2011 by rocko918

[Jan]

I didn't understand anyones comment this way. I understood hey don't depend 100% on me to keep your business going. There are other ways for you to tap into the masses. I understood don't blame me for being a consciencious buyer and utilizing the tools available to me to shop for the best prices. Don't blame me because the internet allows me to shop in Florida, Hawaii, California and New York in all of ten minutes for 5 different hobby related items that my LFS doesn't have right now or could never have at the prices I'm getting online. Don't blame be for wanting to protect my investment by purchasing livestock from a place that gives me a 14 day guarantee and free shipping. And yes, smart consumers will say show me what you got that's better than the next guy for my buck. This is the reality of selling and dealing with consumers.

 

I have no choice but to be frugal, especially in this economy. I'm lucky that we have incomes in this house. There are many people who are not as fortunate. There are many people who will lose their jobs before the new year. Sorry that's how it is. We are ALL trying to survive in horrific times.

 

So my suggestion to sell on ebay was an attempt to open another door. I suggested another way to tap into the masses. The locals can't be depended upon like they used to and It isn't their fault.

 

 

 

 

seems like everyone is saying " hey just put more effort in and we will come, show me what you got so i can decide if i want to come or not, why should i shop there if i can get it online and not leave my house"

 

they have other things to do then to cater to frugal wamas members. I am not saying you should pay triple and you know just as well as i do that that is not the norm around here.

[hlem]

that's right you have NEVER been there, how can you say anything about them. are you on there fb page? or their mailing list?

 

2 way street, people need to put in an effort too.

 

I'm on their FB, mailing, and been there... still i dont know what, where, when, and why I should go... unless I'm really really bored... I even check out the FB page once in awhile...

 

and FYI... Customers DOES NOT and SHOULD NOT need to put in effort to decide where to buy... successful businesses help customers decide WHY they should buy at their store...

Edited December 7, 2011 by hlem

[rocko918]

I'm on their FB, mailing, and been there... still i dont know what, where, when, and why I should go... unless I'm really really bored... I even check out the FB page once in awhile...

 

and FYI... Customer DOES NOT and SHOULD NOT need to put in effort to decide where to buy...

that comment was not meant for you. You do have something against BRK and have made that Obvious several times.

 

And yes Customers should have to put effort to go to a shop. You put in the effort to shop on line????

 

Dont make this personal, if you want you can PM with your comments.

Edited December 7, 2011 by rocko918

[hlem]

that comment was not meant for you. You do have something against BRK and have made that Obvious several times.

 

And yes Customers should have to put effort to go to a shop. You put in the effort to shop on line????

 

I'm stating a general comment. I not have anything against anyone, if I did, I wouldnt still be shopping there, and yes, I still shop at BRK once in a while when i see promotion or need some glue, food, or something... I'm stating business should go get business and not wait for customer to come to them, as you stated.

 

and no, i DO NOT put in the effort to shop online. I shop online when i'm bored or take a quick peek when I receive a notice of some kind of new arrival and sales.