Wanted Ichy opinion

[smokythemattman@gmail.com]

Quick recap before my ?. 

 

Had ich a while back in early summer. Added snails from LA and got it (oops). Broke down tank, caught fish, treated with cu, went fallow the whole shebang. Added fish a few months ago. They were fine until last week. I have no clue how ich snuck through my qt process but it did. 

 

Here is my dilemma. I am 99% sure there is ich again. My hippo tang had like 15 or so very obviously under skin raised sharp white spots. After 2 days they were all gone. No other symptoms my fish are all still fat(very fat) and healthy as far as I can tell. I hawked over the tank for days as I got backup tanks ready. Clownfish had like 2 spots and nothing else showed signs. I know my tank has ich. However, before almost all of my fish had white spots and symptoms. I wonder if the rest have built up more of an immunity by now and are basically just carriers. I dont want to retreat with copper. I just got burned by trusting that and I dont want to re-expose the fish. If I treat itll be TTM and fallow. But heres the catch. I am only planning on adding one more fish. I know people run tanks with ich and after about a year or so the ich loses its potency especially without new additions. Part of me wants to wait and see how the next few weeks go. 

 

Breaking down the tank will be hard now. Alot more corals and growth. And being honest my corals are worth alot more than my fish so I am hesistant on that. It was a mess last time even though it didnt take long. I am debating the drain method as well (dig out sand and suck the water out, catch fish and refill) but again Im a little scared of that. I have wrasse and rock hiders. 

 

This is the most knowledgeable aquarist group I have ever seen anyone tried management and failed? I know you can win many battles with ich and lose the war but I haven't found many examples of that. What would you all do? 

[elwallacejr]

I had ich in a tank a couple of years ago. It came in on a Lyretail Anthias. I freaked out for a bit but added a 25 watt UV Sterilizer on a 57gal tank. The itch went through a few cycles but had less impact (fewer spots) each time. I think it was two or three cycles. In the end it never reared up again for the rest of the tanks life, about 18 more months. Years ago I did the fallow method for about 3 months and that worked but IMO, good UV and good water quality appeared to keep it at bay. Note I’m saying it cured it, it just never showed up again. For me, if UV didn’t work I would have torn down the tank and started over. But in my case I was happy with the UV - no sick/dead fish. That said, if you’re going to try UV, do it quick. You’ll want to get the little buggers after they incubate and become free swimming theronts looking to attack your fish. Each cycle will get worse and worse as the ich population grows.

Good Luck!

[elwallacejr]

I just reread my BB post and noticed that when I said “Note...” I missed the very important word “NOT”. So my message is UV did NOT “Cure” my ich issue but resolved it to my satisfaction- no more sick fish. Sorry for the late correction.


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[ReefAddict]

Obviously everyone’s experience will vary, but if you subscribe to the Paul B method your fish can probably survive the plague.  I haven’t dealt with ich in years, but I managed it in the past, with no casualties.  Just kept the water clean and fish well fed.  Every once in a while I’d see a white spot or two but fish never seemed to care and were all good when I donated them back to the lfs. 

[smokythemattman@gmail.com]

Thanks guys. I wanted some opinions on folks that rode it out before. Its really been eating away at me. I lost two fish last time I caught them all and treated. They jumped out of qt and I have no clue how. Its one of those things where I want to believe the "right" thing is to catch them all and treat again. But I just keep reading more and more about how managing it isn't as wrong as many believe. After ich sneaking through my process I really think ich is in more of our systems than we know. I think what I am leaning towards is getting a uv sterilizer. Probably good to have anyways. And just keeping an eye on them. I have the extra equipment to pull them and treat anytime I have to. 

[BtmDweller]

The blue tang could have difficulty. Just don’t add a powder blue or powder brown and you’ll likely have no issues over time. I’ve fought off ich without treatment.

[smokythemattman@gmail.com]

40 minutes ago, BtmDweller said:

The blue tang could have difficulty. Just don’t add a powder blue or powder brown and you’ll likely have no issues over time. I’ve fought off ich without treatment.

I know acanthurus tangs are super fragile. I have a chocolate tang and hes gona stay in my frag tank for a while. What was your stock list for fish when you waited it out? Mine is definitely on the hardy end. Just a tang and a potters angel as the only fragile ones. Even though I have seen no symptoms froms the angel yet at all. 

[BtmDweller]

Yellow tang, clowns, lyretail anthias


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[treesprite]

The last couple times I saw ich I just watched and waited. The stuff went away on its own. I used to get all freaked out, over-react, remove fish, etcetera. I think, in most cases, it is better to just wait it out for a while if the fish are still active and eating.

Edited November 28, 2019 by treesprite

[smokythemattman@gmail.com]

@treesprite Thats been whats eating at me. I want to believe that catching all my fish and going through the whole thing again is best. Part of me just feels that putting them through copper again or tank transfer is more likely to kill one than ich. As it stands now. I only really wana add one more fish. And I already have it its own QT tank. Its a chocolate tang. I may just leave it in my 40b frag tank for like 6 months to a year anyways since its small. I also am kinda waiting for round 2 of the life cycle to see timing/how bad it is. 

[Reef eScape]

We do have some service tanks where there is ich, we confirmed it, that was there before we took over.   In some cases the client doesn't want a fishless tank for 3-6 months so we live with it.   Sometimes its a huge tank and removing all of the fish would be impossible without a full tear down.   It is possible to live with it and that's probably what most people do.  There are certain species of fish that react poorly to it, and others who are fragile in the first place that probably won't work in a tank with ich.  It's up to you what you want to do and what seems worth it to you.  

[YHSublime]

Opinion: 99% of hobbyists tanks have ich. 

 

Quarantine is a difficult subject, frags, inverts, water, everything has to go through it. I had a bad case of ich many years ago, to the point where I had to break down and treat all my fish. To the point where I had to decide if it would be more stress to catch and QT all the fish than it would be to just live with it. I made the decision to treat, I went fallow for 3 months, and then didn't quarantine again after the entire episode. I understood the risk I was taking, but simply didn't have the room for additional QT tanks. 

 

I fall somewhere in between the Paul B. method and the QT and treat everything category, which shouldn't be a thing, because admittedly there is no lukewarm on the subject, you either do it all right, or there's no point to doing it at all. 

 

And not doing anything isn't wrong either. Good water quality, food, and consistency will keep your fish happy and OK. 

[Guest]

I thought I had ich recently, and enlisted PaulB's help along with Humblefish and 4FordFamily on R2R.  After treating for 14 days in copper with testing to ensure the correct levels, my fish still had spots, combined with white poop.  Turns out that they had a bacterial infection that simply looked like ich.  It took two antibiotics mixed before it cleared up.  I don't believe that I ever had ich.  My tank is fallow right now because after the last meeting, I added corals after just a brief QT, so now I'm waiting to add the fish back in.  

 

My point is, that your fish COULD be suffering from something other than ich, especially if it's not acting the same way your last outbreak did.  CU suppresses the immune system, and it can make other dormant diseases become active.  Try following Humblefish's recipe for antibiotic/food mixtures, and see if that helps.  I'm not a disease expert, so I'm just providing anectdotal evidence from my own system.  

[smokythemattman@gmail.com]

15 hours ago, TrueTricia said:

I thought I had ich recently, and enlisted PaulB's help along with Humblefish and 4FordFamily on R2R.  After treating for 14 days in copper with testing to ensure the correct levels, my fish still had spots, combined with white poop.  Turns out that they had a bacterial infection that simply looked like ich.  It took two antibiotics mixed before it cleared up.  I don't believe that I ever had ich.  My tank is fallow right now because after the last meeting, I added corals after just a brief QT, so now I'm waiting to add the fish back in.  

 

My point is, that your fish COULD be suffering from something other than ich, especially if it's not acting the same way your last outbreak did.  CU suppresses the immune system, and it can make other dormant diseases become active.  Try following Humblefish's recipe for antibiotic/food mixtures, and see if that helps.  I'm not a disease expert, so I'm just providing anectdotal evidence from my own system.  

You know I have wondered that as well. Last time pretty much all the fish had white spots. It was quite obvious. Not a ton but like 5-10 visible. What was also weird is this time it was only on the body of the hippo tang. Where last time it was on the fins predominantl of all the fish. It looked very similar to the usual pointed white under skin spots. But they didn't last the typical 3-7 day feeding period at all. Which was also interesting. All were gone within 36 hours. 

 

I wonder if its bacterial or something else as well. Ive only killed 2 fish in this tank and both were acanthurus tangs. One within 5 or so days of being returned after my first fallow/cu treatment. I chocked it up to the copper/being fragile. The other spent 6 weeks in a qt tank and I treated it with copper as well. No signs or symptoms. I added it to the display. After a few days it looked like it had an injury on its face. So I plucked it and it healed up after like 10 days or so. Added it back in. Another week or so it was dead stuck to the powerhead. No signs of anything wrong even hours before. Again assumed fragility of being an acanthurus tang. Fast forward quite a few weeks and this whole episode repeats. Hard for me to justify fat healthy acanthurus tangs gone in hours from ich without any signs/symptoms of ich. I also did a little autopsy on them and found nothing weird at all. Which was even more confusing. 

 

I had read 4fords post about acanthurus tangs and ich a while back. But his seemingly all wasted away over time. Whereas mine just poofed and dead. I am actually waiting to see if it runs through its life cycle again. Should be any day now for the hippo tang to show signs. If it doesn't Ill put a molly in there in an acclimation box and it should break out real fast if there is crypto in there. 

[treesprite]

I thought mollies weren't prone to saltwater ich. Is that a myth?

[smokythemattman@gmail.com]

1 hour ago, treesprite said:

I thought mollies weren't prone to saltwater ich. Is that a myth?

I thought it was the other way around. I am about to do more research haha 

[smokythemattman@gmail.com]

Alright ich lifecycle round 2 is underway. I anticipated it would be sometime in the next few days that the cysts would hatch and it would become visible again. Hippo tang got 5-10 obvious raised white sharp spots and no other fish have any. Its still weird the parasite has yet to appear on the fins of the hippo tang only affects the body. So far seems not as bad as the first time. Hippo tang still seems normal. It is very fascinating how it can be impossible to identify ich on fish that are in a closed system with the parasite none of the others show anything at all. This has made me a full believer in not just observing fish in qt and treating proactively. 

[luan67]

Tagging along.  After 8+ years of ich free fish in my display tank, the tank acquired velvet 3 weeks ago due to me not following my own rule of buying fish at Petco even after quarantine.   Out of the 8, lost 3 so far.  Curious if any members have chloroquine phosphate per humblefish recommendations.     I have them in QT and doing daily freshwater dip but I would like to see if CP will do the trick.   

[Jon Lazar]

I would start copper immediately while you try to find chloroquine phosphate.  Copper power is my personal favorite.

[luan67]

Is there a local store that carries copper power?

[smokythemattman@gmail.com]

On 12/7/2019 at 7:36 PM, luan67 said:

Is there a local store that carries copper power?

Reefescape might. If not that brand I am sure they have some form of chelated copper. 

 

 

[YHSublime]

On 12/7/2019 at 5:19 PM, luan67 said:

Tagging along.  After 8+ years of ich free fish in my display tank, the tank acquired velvet 3 weeks ago due to me not following my own rule of buying fish at Petco even after quarantine.   Out of the 8, lost 3 so far. 

 

From what I understand about Velvet, is without treatment it moves very fast (days, not weeks). 

[cpu933k]

On 12/7/2019 at 7:36 PM, luan67 said:

Is there a local store that carries copper power?

 

Check with Centreville Aquarium or Tropical Lagoon. I think I've seen it there before.

[smokythemattman@gmail.com]

8 hours ago, YHSublime said:

 

From what I understand about Velvet, is without treatment it moves very fast (days, not weeks). 

Yeah weirdly some fish can build up a resistance to that to. Though i wouldn't leave it to the fish to fight that or brook off on their own. Actually that is one reason I can't be to upset that ich snuck through into my tank. Couldve been velvet or brook. 

[paul b]

On 12/3/2019 at 9:26 PM, smokythemattman@gmail.com said:

I thought it was the other way around. I am about to do more research haha 

 

Black mollies get ich, but with them you can just touch each spot with a black magic marker so you won't see them.