Need ideas for silent, in-tank circulation

[Jon Lazar]

I'm working on a 350 gal display tank and I'm having second thoughts about how to provide enough in-tank flow. The tank is 96x28x30 (LxDxH) and I'd like to have a lot of flow.  The tank build thread is here.



The tank is just a couple feet from our dining room table, so it needs to be as quiet as possible. I mean, really quiet. Most of the equipment is in the basement to keep things, you know, quiet.

 

 

So my plan has been to use two Vectra L1 pumps in the existing holes for two closed loops. (The tank had large corner overflows when I bought it.) A 2" intake on the back wall feeds the pump. The Vectra discharges water through a short manifold then out from loc-line nozzles along the front of the tank. In-tank plumbing will buried under the sand. Nozzles will be camouflaged with rocks and corals.



That was the plan. But while this all looked good on paper, it doesn't look as good in person. In order to hide the plumbing, I'll need a 4" sand bed. That's more than I like. What's more, that will take up a lot of the viewable space and make the view too letterbox.



Also, the loc-line nozzles will be more visible than I imagined. Either I have four evenly-spaced blobs of rock to hide them, or there's a bunch of black nozzles contrasting against my white sand bed.

 

 

Finally, I'm underwhelmed by the Vectra L1 pumps.  I filled the tank this weekend and ran everything.  My pumps are sorta quiet up to about 50% power, but get noticeably louder after that. I upsized the plumbing and used the larger couplings. Flow isn't bad, but I'm not impressed.  I suppose the sound will be muffled somewhat once the stand is skinned, but it's still not what I was expecting.

What do other big tank owners do? How did you get lots of flow across an 8' tank, silently, with minimal eyesore?

 

- Move the loc-line to the top front of the tank? At least then the black nozzles might blend in better with the black background.  And I could do a shallower sand bed.

 

- Replace the Vectras for an even quieter pump?  Ditch the closed loop completely and go with some other in-tank powerhead? My experience with MP10s is that even the quiet drive isn't silent. I've read many reviews that the same is true for the Gyres. Get more of them and run them slower?

 

 

[YHSublime]

If you're feeling like a baller, how about some Quiet Drive MP 60's?

 

Last 8' tank I can remember actually seeing was this, which might be helpful. 

[Origami]

Gyre's are pretty quiet in my opinion.

 

Also (just a thought) there's no reason that your closed loop pumps have to be on the same level as the tank. They can just as easily be in the basement, too. If it's a true closed loop, then the intake side is sealed and under pressure. As long as the volute can take the pressure without rupturing, the pressure will offset the head pressure on the output side and the pump will work only against the net pressure differential. 

 

If you're committed to a closed loop, how would you feel about drilling the bottom in a few more places (up front on the bottom panel) to fit a bunch of 3/4- or 1-inch bulkhead fittings and just installing some street 45's, and bring the plumbing down under the tank and into the stand? The 45's would basically pop up from the bottom of the tank and remain low profile. And, if they were black (or even clear), you could minimize the visual impact. 

[epleeds]

There was a tank on RC that had 5 seaswirls on a huge dart pump that was his only circulation. He didn't have any powerheads in the tank. I'm sure it didn't make any noise upstairs since everything was in his basement.

 

His tank was beautiful. A full blown SPS reef. I can't remember who the guy though.

[madweazl]

QD60s (or 40s for that matter) aren't remotely quiet so I wouldn't go that route. The Jebao equivalents are actually considerably less noisy but occupy considerably more room in the tank. As for closed loop, I have no valuable info in that regard. 

[zygote2k]

I've run CL, Ecotechs, Jebaos, and Gyres.

Currently on the 500 I'm running, 5) MP40's and one MP60. It's pretty quiet and the only thing you can hear is typical water noise.

On another 8' long tank, I started off with gyres but they quickly failed and I ditched them for 2) MP60's and an MP40- and FWIW, QD's are silent in the beginning but tend to have cooling fan issues/noises on the 60's but haven't heard anything from the 40's, although the 40 wetsides seem to fail quickly- like a year or less. I have an mp40 from 2011 with original wetside and it still runs quiet...

I had 2) closed loops with an OM4 and a dart pump powering them and they were definitely noisy from water surge when the om4 revolved.

Why not just cap those holes in the bottom and run conventional circulation like MP40/60's?

[Origami]

Talking to installs and experience with reliability: I've got two (second generation) gyres and four MP40QDs on my tank. But my tank's in the basement there's definitely background noise so I can't comment on how quiet they really are. (*sorry*) I ran a first generation gyre for about six months before replacing it with the two second generation devices. I've only run those two for the last year and they've been fairly reliable to date. The QDs have been in place for over a year now. No issues with any of them. Definitely a better wet side than the early first generation and even revised first generation MP40s, but Rob's comment will have me keeping my eyes open. Before installing the four QDs, I was using a few Jebao WP40's. While they worked (quietly) for a year or two, I found that I had reliability issues (mostly with controllers dying) that led me to seek an alternative. Before the Jebao's, I was using first generation MP40W's. While those were reliable, they tended to get a bit noisy over time.

 

I've only witnessed other CL installations - never had one nor had a notion to build one.

[matt]

If you want CL, then perhaps you plug the bottom holes and do a manifold through your eurobracing. If I remember DIPG's current tank, I think he used a CL with an OM 4-way (or similar) inside his canopy...but also had an mp60 on one end and a gyre on the other...or something like that.

[Jon Lazar]

Thanks everyone for all the great feedback and ideas!  Keep 'em coming.

 

This thread highlights the uncertainty I have around using Vortechs or Gyres.  Some people find them loud, some find them quiet.  It seems like this depends on the generation of the pump, the power setting, how quiet the environment is, and your definition of "quiet".  But it still makes picking a "quietest" tough.  And I'm hesitant to buy a $500 pump as a test drive when I can't return it.

 

I designed the nozzle placement low to help keep detritus from settling on the sand bed and to provide current all along the face of the reef.  But I like the idea of a closed loop manifold along the top eurobrace, with only a bit of nozzle protruding under the waterline.

 

What do you think about the flow coming down from the top, instead of up from the bottom?

[Origami]

WIth flow coming from the top I suspect that you're less likely to suspend detritus that makes it to the bottom unless there's a lot of concentrated flow being directed down there. But it may drive it into a corner where you'll be able to easily siphon it out. 

[AlanM]

My internal Tunze powerheads were pretty bullet proof and silent.  The only time I could hear them was when a snail got between the pump and the glass.  

 

I can just barely hear my MP40QD powerheads.  If I turn off my skimmer (where the air draw is the dominant noise) I have a Vectra return pump and the Vortech powerheads and little other noise in the room and I can't hear them without my ear right up on them.  I don't know about the MP60s.  I put my ear against the Maxspect tank at MACNA that was running the biggest Gyre pumps and heard nothing and also felt no vibration in the cord, but that is a pretty noisy environment.

[Jon Lazar]

We've been thinking about this a lot, and our new plan is to run the closed loop plumbing along the top eurobracing.  I think the nozzles will be much less noticeable, and will allow me to move/change/reconfigure the nozzles more easily.

 

I expect I'll need to supplement the Vectras with some sort of in-tank powerheads on the back wall at some point.  The side walls are prime viewing panes, so I won't put anything on the sides unless it's a last resort.  So for now I'll keep collecting peoples' reports on sound levels and output.

 

Thanks everyone for your inputs!

[madweazl]

I have original controllers and dry sides with QD wets. In Reefcrest at approx 80% max flow, they aren't too bad but are still the loudest items on my tank by far. In Nutrient Transport mode they're flat out annoying. 

[scott711]

I have used both in the past.  On my new tank build (~270 gallons) that is still in progress, my plan as of right now is to use 1 or two gyres, 2 mp40s.  I was thinking testing out the neptune WAV's and see how i like them.  If sound is an issue, can you just turn the pumps down whenever you are around and then ramp them up at night? 

 

I also like seaswirls.  They are very silent and you can push a lot of water through them.