arking_mark February 14, 2016 Share February 14, 2016 I decided that the orange spot filefish (Harlequin Filefish) would be the crown jewel on my 34gal Nano reef tank. Unfortunately, these fish are very selective in their diet which consists of SPS with a strong preference for Acro Millepora. However, there has been success in weaning these beautiful creatures to prepared foods. In order to wean this fish I setup an Instant QT: - 5gal Fluval Spec V and 50watt heater - Fluval sponge filter and ceramic media seasoned for two weeks in my display tank sump - A couple of pieces of live rock from my display tank (not enough) - Saltwater from display tank Notes: - I was going to use fresh cleaned rock provided by a friendly WAMAS member @Monkiboy (ERC), but decided I needed seasoned rock to provide filtration and pods. I will season the new rock in the display tank and then add it to the QT - I also decided to make the QT a permanent QT and will be adding a deep sand bed seasoned from the display tank Livestock for QT: - Harlequin Filefish (duh!) - Yellow Watchman Goby and Tiger Pistol Shrimp to keep sand clean - 5 Nassarius Snails to keep sand clean - 1 Turbo to clean algae - SPS provided by another friendly WAMAS member @RW09903 Goal: Get the fish to eat Spectrum Pellets and Rods Frozen food Plan: - Introduce acros until I find one it likes - Use Spectrum nutria/gel to smear acro and prepared foods - Feed three times a day - Lots of water changes from display tank to QT to maintain water quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark February 14, 2016 Author Share February 14, 2016 Day 1 (13 Feb): - Received the filefish, it’s much larger than expected, 3-4 inches and a male (I requested female) - The fish seems to have acclimated well and made it to the QT - Added medium Acro Mille to the QT and observed some nipping at the coral - Sand arrives on Monday 15 Feb - Also decided that the Spec 5 pump is not sufficient and will add a small power head on Monday as well - Tank mates arrived as well and are in the QT - First feed tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheresTheReef February 14, 2016 Share February 14, 2016 Good luck. Sounds like a fun and challenging adventure! Do you have a separate HT to treat fish just in case it's necessary? Substrate can absorb some meds and inverts will likely need to be removed for most treatments. What if ich presents itself? Don't want to move the inverts to your main tank. Make sure and have a plan for them. Turbo snails are efficient algae eaters and can starve in a small tank without sufficient algae. Might hold off until you see if algae is a problem first. Not trying to bash your plan just making some observations. Most importantly, where's the pics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k February 14, 2016 Share February 14, 2016 I'd ditch the sand and snails. Get a branch of milliepora and mold moistened food around it until it's covered, freeze it, then place in tank to allow filefish to nip food off of something it already associates as food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkey18 February 14, 2016 Share February 14, 2016 I agree with ditching the sand. Especially in a QT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark February 14, 2016 Author Share February 14, 2016 I have had good success with the deep sand bed and would like this QT to become a permanent Pico tank. Figured the Orange Spotted Filefish may be in there for a while and ordered the other tank mates at the same time. Using seasoned sand from my display should avoid any issues. Or am I wrong? Also interesting note. Filefish has been eating one one snails. Kept nipping at it. I'll post pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheresTheReef February 14, 2016 Share February 14, 2016 Lots of debate with running sand in a QT, but there can be lots of issues both with water quality (detritus trap) and parasite cysts having a place to live. A separate HT can be kept for treatment; however, keep in mind that you will have to reset the tank (or keep it fallow) in the presence of some parasites. Sand can complicate this challenging task ahead of you even more. Consider running it w/o sand for a test period to see how things go. Right now you want to maintain the highest water quality, which will require diligent testing (e.g. ammonia, nitrite, salinity, etc.). You will likely require daily, if not more frequent, water changes to help in this regard. You also want to remove any uneaten food fairly quickly. A small filter with removable pad + manual siphon will be better IMO than relying on snails. You already have a loss of water volume with the rock in there. Additional displacement will occur with sand. I've never kept a pico, but have read of crashes in those small tanks due to non-maintained sand beds. Let alone a DSB. Ultimately you will have to decide what works best for you, but it's good to keep the potential benefits/drawbacks to our decisions in mind. Looking forward to the pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark February 15, 2016 Author Share February 15, 2016 Day 2: - This was a more exciting day - Got up this morning to the OSF grazing on the browned out Accor. Yah! - Shortly thereafter, I introduced a dry mix to the tank to feed the other inhabitants and see if there was any OSF interest. Unfortunately, no miracle. - Interestingly enough, the OSF did pick on a snail to the point I had to throw it away. - A little before noon, made the Spectrum gel food and smeared on the acro. Unfortunately, the OSF seemed to spit out the gel whenever it would bite it. - Instant QT was a FAIL. Despite having the Fluval filter in my DT sump getting seasoned for two weeks, using DT seasoned water, and DT seasoned live rock, my ammonia was between .25 and .5 and nitrite was between 0 and .25. - 80% water change from my DT seems to have fixed the issues. Will check again this evening. - Removed the snails, as ERC pointed out that these are ticking nuclear bombs for a Pico - Also prematurely moved the other received fish (Helfitch’s Firefish and Rainsford Goby) to DT - I left the Yellow Watchman Goby and Tiger Pistol shrimp as they were targeted for the QT to keep the deep sand bed (DSB) clean. However, I am now questioning if this is the right time to do this. I want to make this a permanent Pico / QT (observation) tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squishie89 February 15, 2016 Share February 15, 2016 Well that fish is very, very handsome. Good luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark February 15, 2016 Author Share February 15, 2016 Night 2: - DISASTER strikes. - Ammonia went up again to .25 and did another 80% water change with DT - Continued to monitor ammonia till 2:30am and was taking my last measures when I noticed my DT fish go a little nuts. The Diamond Watchman Goby was out of his cave seemly dazed with mouth hanging open and my clown was also not in it's normal sleeping location. Immediately I know something is wrong. - Where is the Sea Hare? Can it nuke a tank? Glad you asked, as the remains where in the powerhead and yes they can! - Panic sets in and I quickly scan the internet. Need something to soak up toxins. So I replace my Chemi-purr blues with fresh ones. - Now I have a problem with my DT water and fear all may be dead in a couple of hours…and no water change for my QT. - Gave the chemi-pure 30 minutes and did a 12% water change…and prepared for another. - This was an all-nighter and written while water change is happening. - So tired… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS February 15, 2016 Share February 15, 2016 How big is your DT? Do one huge water change instead of multiple smaller ones. 12% is a bit smaller. I get that it may have been all the water you had at the time. Hopefully you made water overnight and you can do another big change today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark February 15, 2016 Author Share February 15, 2016 Surprisingly, DT seems fine. Everything looks normal. Chemi-pure to rescue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark February 16, 2016 Author Share February 16, 2016 Day 3: - DT seems good to go. The chemi-pure looks to have done the trick. No a single loss…except for the sea hare who must have committed suicide and tired to take the tank with him. The son of a gun! - QT was reading ammonia between 0 and.25 most of the day. Based on feedback from Monkiboy (ERC) and others I focused on the water quality and not the feeding. - Fed spectrum small fish formula in the morning and acro with rods and gel. Picked at acro but nothing else. It does seem to pick things off the rock and bottom of tank from time to time. - After afternoon feeding, did a 50% water change and modded the QT with a very small power head and rotating deflector. Also added an easily removable filter behind the overflow to make after feeding clean up easier - Bought ammonia detoxifier and nitrifying bacteria to add to the tank. Used them both per manufactures directions. - QT appears to be stable…0 ammonia!! We’ll keep testing. - Plan for tomorrow is to get into a feeding and water change routine. A light feeding in the morning and two heavier feeds in the evening with an evening 50% water change. - Looking for ideas here. Maybe some live brine shrimp? Tiger Pods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS February 16, 2016 Share February 16, 2016 You say you are going to focus on the water quality and not the feeding but you are mostly asking about what new foods to feed. Where do you want to be for food of choice with this fish? As much as we would all love our fish to be happy on dry flakes and pellet, not all fish will get there. Clearly you want to wean it off of Milliepora but where are you trying to get it? I ask the above questions because putting spectrum flake in the tank when it won't even eat food disguised as millepora seems unnecessary and just adding to the pollution problem. Same with throwing in live brine or tiger pods- none of them will sustain the animal so why bother trying to get him to eat it only having to change it later? I would stick with feeding him millepora just so you can get the animal comfortable in their current situation. Then, once they are happy, proceed with smearing food on the millepora. Once he takes something other than millepora as food, then you can think about introducing *that same food* without being on the millepora. Throwing the kitchen sink at this guy to see what sticks doesn't seem like a good idea. I am not an expert fish QT/food weaner so I'm just applying simple logic here. Seems to me this is going to be a multi-week/month effort. Are you ready for that or did you expect it to happen faster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS February 16, 2016 Share February 16, 2016 Also, that ammonia detoxifier wears off after a while correct? Do you have enough live rock in the pico for the nitrifying bacteria to reside in? That stuff doesn't live in the water column or tank glass and when you change/rise the filter media you will lose some of the bacteria. Sorry, not trying to come across negative, just trying to channel the thought into positive steps and considerations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark February 16, 2016 Author Share February 16, 2016 Keep channeling! 1. Ammonia detoxifies ammonia but does not get rid of it. Not sure it should impact measurements. 2. Added a pre-filter to sponge for cleanout. This will allow me to leave sponge in for at least a month. Also have a 2nd Fluval Spec V filter sponge and media seasoning in my DT sump. 3. I definately need to find small live rock that could be immediately added. I was going to do a DSB...but will hold off for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squishie89 February 16, 2016 Share February 16, 2016 - Where is the Sea Hare? Can it nuke a tank? Glad you asked, as the remains where in the powerhead and yes they can! Surprisingly, DT seems fine. Everything looks normal. Chemi-pure to rescue? Good thinking to throw in the chemi pure. When my cucumber released his toxins I did a 20g WC and threw in as much carbon as I had. http://wamas.org/forums/topic/66578-cucumber-fish-killing-toxin-my-experience-and-how-to-deal/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark February 17, 2016 Author Share February 17, 2016 Day 4: - Ammonia @ 0 this morning. - Offered a smaller Mille with Rods and no water movement to disturb food, not much interest although he did pick at acro - Removed Mille and siphoned out food, refilled siphoned water with water from DT and replaced DT water with the siphoned water and thereby feeding my DT. ☺ - Evening the ammonia had risen between 0 and .25. However, color was much closer to zero. Will continue to monitor. I suspect the QT is completing it’s cycle. - 2nd feeding was gel food and a dry mix smeared on the larger acro…he definitely grazed on the acro. Not sure any of the prepared food was eaten. After two hours the acro and food was removed. - Did a 50% water change using DT water. - I think my routine will be 7:30am morning light feed with acro; cleanup complete by 8:30. 6:30pm evening feed with acro; cleanup complete by 9:30pm with a 50% water change until ammonia readings consistently stay zero. - I also notice that the OSF seems to pick at the rock and glass from time to time. Pods maybe? - Tomorrow evening I will try live brine shrimp and see how that goes. - Still looking for advice on getting this OSF weaned. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy February 17, 2016 Share February 17, 2016 glad to hear things are going better mark and you're figuring out the ebb and flow of this particular set up which is a bit challenging. getting into a routine while keeping the ammonia at 0 will be paramount. any raises need to be focus for improvement in your routine. - Still looking for advice on getting this OSF weaned. Any ideas?there is no "weaning" until it is eating reliably and consistently my friend and you are more than likely going to have best of luck with its natural diet which it seems, based on your observations, to be making some progress on. as water quality improves you will see more inclination to eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8 2 RISE February 17, 2016 Share February 17, 2016 Lots of great advice in the thread already. Where did you get the fish from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark February 17, 2016 Author Share February 17, 2016 Fish was purchased from Blue Zoo Aquatics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Ward February 17, 2016 Share February 17, 2016 Does anyone have the presentation Matthew Pederson did a couple years back? If I remember correctly he presented on not only weaning these guys off of SPS but getting them to breed. Might be some good tips in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sethsolomon February 17, 2016 Share February 17, 2016 (edited) Does anyone have the presentation Matthew Pederson did a couple years back? If I remember correctly he presented on not only weaning these guys off of SPS but getting them to breed. Might be some good tips in there. He has an article in Coral Magazine about it Let me see if I can track down what issue it is in. I should have a digital file of it and I will share the article when I find it. Pages 64-75 in March/April 2009 issue. Link to the article here: Link If you want to purchase the issue click here And I strongly recommend getting a subscription to the magazine: Link (Note: I am not affiliated with the magazine) Edited February 17, 2016 by sethsolomon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime February 17, 2016 Share February 17, 2016 OP, you reused food from qt into your DT? I hope the only purpose of your QT is to get this fish eating! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arking_mark February 17, 2016 Author Share February 17, 2016 Yes. For now the QT is only being used for weaning the OSF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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