davelin315 December 19, 2008 Share December 19, 2008 OK, so after many years of debating the design, I have finally begun construction on a touch tank for the kindergarten classes at my school. One motivation was seeing that the Kennedy Krieger touch tank was beginning to come together and so I figured it was about time I finished the planning and construction of this system. It's slated for completion and installation after the new year so I'll just update what the plans are and get some pictures of it up over the next few days. The "tank" itself is a 50 gallon rubbermaid stock tank. It's about 50x30 and just over a foot deep, if that. The tub will have a bulkhead in the middle or in one of the sides that will act as a drain and the water will go over to a sump that is located at the end of the table. This will contain liverock and possibly some macroalgae, but as of now there is no lighting planned for this system so it will most likely only have rock in it for biological filtration and a very large carbon bag. I am planning on using a Little Giant 2MDQX as the pump for this and it will pump out of the sump back into the tub. The sump itself will be nearly level with the tub so that the water level fluctuates more or less across the entire system rather than having one located below the other. The plumbing schematics are still under consideration, though. Anyway, back to the tub, it'll be on wheels contained in a wooden cart. The wheels are four 350 lb casters. These will make the entire thing higher, but I used my daughter as a height measurement. There's a wooden top that will be stained/sealed and it's at the level where the kids could feasibly lean on it to poke around in the tank. The tank itself will be held up by a frame made of 2x6s and then the rest of the table will be built up to cover all but the top of the tank - basically it's like a stand that the tank fits into. The inhabitants right now are going to be a slipper lobster (if I can find it in my sump system) as it has no discernible claws that I can see, some chocolate chip starfish, and some hermit crabs, snails, and probably a few pencil urchins. I have no plans on keeping any rock in the main touch system as that will only allow the inhabitants to hide from the kids. I am looking for other suggestions on any fish that could be kept in this that are: a) docile, b) tough enough to handle the environment, c) NOT dangerous and NOT jumpers, and d) fun for the kids! My guess is that I will end up with no fish in this system, but that won't be the end of the world. As far as the plumbing, once I take the pictures, I will ask for any ideas people have to complete this. The main idea is unobtrusive and easy to use and maintain. It won't have many of the bells and whistles that a true reef or fish tank would have, so I'm hoping it's perfect for kindergarten! My plan is to finish this tank off over the weekend and get it ready to be brought into school after winter break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fry_school101 December 23, 2008 Share December 23, 2008 You might be able to through some damsels in there. They would probably last. And they're cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8 2 RISE December 23, 2008 Share December 23, 2008 wouldn't you have to worry about possible biting with bigger damsels, it might not hurt, but you don't want to scare the kids IMO. I don't know much about it, but have you looked at a stingray maybe? You can clip the spike just as you would a finger nail, but I don't know how hardy they are, etc. It would have plenty of floor space too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaironman December 23, 2008 Share December 23, 2008 A school of green chromis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AQUACO December 31, 2008 Share December 31, 2008 Dave, I got in a three huge Sea Bunnies the size of hamsters by accident. Do you want them for the touchtank? I have had them two weeks and they are thriving! For Free! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 January 7, 2009 Author Share January 7, 2009 Dave, I got in a three huge Sea Bunnies the size of hamsters by accident. Do you want them for the touchtank? I have had them two weeks and they are thriving! For Free! Hey Sean, shot you a PM! This tank is almost ready to go. I still have to put the wheels on it and drill the tub for the plumbing and plumb it, but the stand is basically finished and just needs to be skinned and then painted after sanding it down. Weather and vacation has delayed the construction as we build it in the driveway. As far as the stingray, it's way too small for a stingray and personally I feel it's cruel to clip their spines. I wouldn't put one in such a small and unstable system either as that would most certainly lead to its death. Despite their relationship to sharks which can tough out some unbelievable conditions for some species, stingrays are not that great in captivity. Plus, they will ALL outgrow this tub very quickly and can jump. The fish suggestions probably won't work out, although damsels that don't bite might be OK (I don't know of many that wouldn't nip). I am thinking probably some cleaner shrimp for the tank. They are fantastic to watch clean and they will readily adapt to hands in the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman January 8, 2009 Share January 8, 2009 My chromis eat flake out of my fingers (so does my 'Dory' - but it's okay, because she thinks she is a big chromis). If you feed them by hand - they will certainly learn to come to hands; and they have never bitten me, despite 6 of them nibbling at my fingers for the flake. Those little blue damsels don't get big enough to bite, do they? How about emerald crabs? Anyone ever been pinched by one? Mine will eat mysis from my fingers or tongs. And you're right on with cleaner shrimp - feed them by hand, and they will become your best friend. Same with Fire Shrimp - but they are probably too expensive. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoothtriqueter January 8, 2009 Share January 8, 2009 I was going to suggest the cleaner shrimp, and a giant conch! It will be exciting to read up and watch this come together, unfortunately the KK touch tank is slow going right now trying to clear everything through the school. So many allergies and a multitude of other health issues to work out, but I am determined! Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extreme_tooth_decay January 8, 2009 Share January 8, 2009 How about emerald crabs? Anyone ever been pinched by one? Mine will eat mysis from my fingers or tongs. I was pinched by one about 5 times last night when I was handling it. Big ones pinch very hard. I was surprised I was not bleeding. tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterTang January 8, 2009 Share January 8, 2009 Dave, I got in a three huge Sea Bunnies the size of hamsters by accident. Do you want them for the touchtank? I have had them two weeks and they are thriving! For Free! What's wrong, Sean? Don't like to touch them? :lol2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 January 12, 2009 Author Share January 12, 2009 Sean is currently holding one of the sea bunnies for me and it will be joining the crew as soon as the tank is ready to go. Speaking of which, I finished the basic table today by putting the wheels on (couldn't find my wrenches to screw the wheels onto the base so I had to go get another set today). My daughter was supposed to help me with it since we set some time aside, but she opted to play outside! Anyway, since the weather is not cooperative, it's in my house being worked on. My wife and I both sat in this to test it out for how it handled shifting weight and to see whether the tank would collapse when I add water. Needless to say, I had to get out to take a picture of it. The casters it is on (4 of them) are each rated for 350 lbs so it should roll with relative ease. This is the table from the long side. I am still debating how much of the side to actually cover up. I will most likely drop it down to almost the ground. Here's the view from one end. The table is in three parts. The first part is the tub itself which will simply rest on the base where the wheels are. The second part is the base which is made of two 2x6s running lengthwise with the wheels attached which is then attached to two more 2x6s which are upright to handle the weight of the tub. These are joined together by three 2x4 spans and two 2x6 spans. There are then 4 legs that support the top frame. The legs are made up of one 2x4 which rests on the 2x6 spans running lengthwise up and down and a 2x6 which rests on the 2x6 bases for the wheels. The top itself is simply 2x4s and a sheet of finishing plywood. It is not attached and will most likely simply be attached using some pins and not screwed in. One end will be cut away in order to accomodate a "sump" for the rock and filtration. View from above. I still need to do the plumbing and cut out a hole for the "sump" which will actually be about even with the tank. The last step will be to finish skinning it so that there's no access to the pump and supports and then sand it and paint or stain it. Then it's good to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefmontalvo January 12, 2009 Share January 12, 2009 (edited) Nice work. Also for what it's worth I noticed Grande mart sells Giant live conchs and there very active and live Abalone over in Centreville. Edited January 12, 2009 by reefmontalvo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason the filter freak January 12, 2009 Share January 12, 2009 Looking good, have fun waterproofing that sucker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugar Magnolia January 13, 2009 Share January 13, 2009 Dave, you could put in some neon gobies. My blue neon and my cleaner shrimp crawl and pick all over my arm and hand when I have my hands in the tank. Neat project! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 January 13, 2009 Author Share January 13, 2009 Dave, you could put in some neon gobies. My blue neon and my cleaner shrimp crawl and pick all over my arm and hand when I have my hands in the tank. Neat project! That's a good idea. I have a neon goby that went down into my sump that lives with the chocolate chip stars that are destined for this tank already. I'll have to contact ORA about whether they would sponsor some of these guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaironman January 17, 2009 Share January 17, 2009 "b) tough enough to handle the environment" Dave, Neat project. What is your plan to do when you have the kids tour this touch tank? Prewash their hands so handsoap and lotion won't get into the tank water or do you plan to do a demo then remove the fishes/invertebrates to put them back into their regular tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 January 27, 2009 Author Share January 27, 2009 Hey Lee, the plan right now is to educate them about washing with soap first and then doing a second wash with only water. I don't know that there's a good solution to the contamination part in a school. The plan is to have them reach into the pond versus have things taken out. I already do the taking out and bringing to them, this is the next step in ease of access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaironman January 27, 2009 Share January 27, 2009 Hey Lee, the plan right now is to educate them about washing with soap first and then doing a second wash with only water. I don't know that there's a good solution to the contamination part in a school. The plan is to have them reach into the pond versus have things taken out. I already do the taking out and bringing to them, this is the next step in ease of access. Thanks Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k February 5, 2009 Share February 5, 2009 Dave- would you like a free chiller for your touch tank? Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 February 6, 2009 Author Share February 6, 2009 Finally found some time to work on the touch tank again tonight and am down to just a couple of steps before it's finished. Tonight I attached the top of the stand to the bottom by inserting four 3/8" dowels into the base and extending them up into the top of the stand. It's easily removable if I need to take the top off for any reason (of course, I'll need to take the tub out, too, but it's still removable!). I then cut a hole in the top for the "sump". This will be where all of the live rock and any other filtration will go. This will keep the touch area uncluttered and prevent some things from being present in the main system that I don't want the kids touching like the inevitable bristle worms. I then drilled the sump with two bulkheads, a 1.5" and a 1". The 1.5" will be for the overflow from the touch tank and then the 1" will be for the return. I also drilled the touch tank itself with the same bulkheads, one on each side. Essentially, it's like a closed loop since the touch tank and the sump will be at the same level, with the sump even being slightly higher than the touch tank, but the different sized bulkheads should create an equal flow without any pressure back and forth and leave it nice and gentle. The steps I have left are: 1. Do the plumbing from the touch tank to the sump and then to the pump and back to the touch tank - for this I'm using some flex PVC - the return pump will be an old Little Giant 2MDQX I have lying around 2. Put some boards and trim on the edges of the system and then seal it/stain it to prevent the water from damaging the top. I will probably not stain or do anything to the base other than sand it as I don't expect it to get wet, although in a kindergarten classroom that's probably a pretty poor assumption to make that it won't get wet. Here's a view of the system from the non-sump side. The right side has the overflow with a strainer on it (1.5") and the left side is where the return will be. I will most likely take a T and place it there so that the water splits in two different directions very gently. I am debating using loc line for this but don't want anything that the kids can move too much so will probably stick with a single PVC T. At this end you can see the sump that is built into the top. I want to keep the rock separate from the system (I won't need much as I'm only housing some snails, starfish, and a few other invertebrates) but I also want the kids to be able to see it. I may also plant a mangrove in the sump or go with a small amount of macro but I don't expect to put any lights on here so I may simply limit it to a bag of carbon or something similar. Again, the simpler the better for this system. My hope is to be finished with this on Saturday as my parents will be in town for my daughter Reilley's birthday, so I'm guessing my father will want to help out to finish it one night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami February 6, 2009 Share February 6, 2009 What a terrific project, Dave. The kids will love it (and they'll remember you forever, too)! You're an incredible ambassador for the hobby. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 February 8, 2009 Author Share February 8, 2009 Had a chance to plumb the system tonight. I finally looked up the pump I'm using and it's a Little Giant 2-MDQX-SC which pumps out about 770gph. Using the Reef Central Head Loss calculator, this will pump out about 750gph in the current configuration that it's in. It essentially is not pumping up at all because the sump and the touch tank are on the same level, but with the elbows and the ball valve, it will degrade a few gph. One worry that I have is that in the current configuration the only way to slow it down if I need to is by reducing the outlet size in the touch pond, otherwise I didn't have room to install a ball valve on the outlet side of the pump, only on the inlet side which I don't want to use as I don't want to restrict the inlet and damage the pump. The other worry is that by necessity the overflow tube flows uphill, but I don't believe this will pose any problems as the water will flow out via 1.5" and return via 1" which might possibly be reduced down to 3/4" locline. I'll snap some pictures tomorrow when it's light out, tonight is shot because of how dark it is. This leaves two steps before it's finished - finish trimming and covering the exposed areas and then staining it. Not too much work left to do but enough that I probably won't finish before Monday afternoon/night. I had hoped to get it into school by Monday morning, but that might not be very realistic at this stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 February 18, 2009 Author Share February 18, 2009 Last week was a nightmare as 5 out of the 6 of us caught the virus that's been going around and were out of school for the week. Hopefully this week brings better health and weather to allow me to finish working on this tank and get it into school! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 March 17, 2009 Author Share March 17, 2009 Well, after many delays, I finished all of the plumbing, got it all ready to go and trimmed the rough edges, did everything except for stain it as it kept on being too cold to stain it in my garage, and whaddya know... I brought it into school today, tried to fit it through the door... and the door was in the way. It fits just fine through the frame, but the door doesn't allow it to go through. So, now I am taking it back home, cutting the edges off, and then resanding and trimming (might just take the router to the edges instead) and I'll stain it and start it up. Very disappointing! Before I chop it up, here's what the finished but unstained product looked like... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onyx March 17, 2009 Share March 17, 2009 Nice. Sorry to hear about the door, been there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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