Aquariums for You

[Antiguan]

After paying Aquariums for You and expecting my glass tank (60X30x26) to be delivered in July, I just received the email below. What a terrific welcome back from my vacation.

 

 

Tenecor Aquariums regrets that

[stevearlen]

So, they were once a Tenecor competitor and/or Tenecor dealer?

Edited May 26, 2008 by stevearlen

[treesprite]

So where does this leave you as far as getting either your tank or your money back?

[NAGA]

The writing was on the wall with this one. I had heard through the grapevine that this was going to happen. With all the continious specials they were running they obviuosly were trying to get as much money as they could before closing.

 

It's too bad because that leaves the only glass tank builder nearby "glasscages" Oh Boy.

[Antiguan]

So, they were once a Tenecor competitor and/or Tenecor dealer?

 

I do not know the relationship.

 

So where does this leave you as far as getting either your tank or your money back?

 

I found a thread in the Vendor Experience firum on RC and it appears that they are going to or have filed bankruptcy.

 

The writing was on the wall with this one. I had heard through the grapevine that this was going to happen. With all the continious specials they were running they obviuosly were trying to get as much money as they could before closing.

 

It's too bad because that leaves the only glass tank builder nearby "glasscages" Oh Boy.

 

Yes, the specials appear to have been a scam to defraud folks of money before the ship went down. In fact, my salesperson called me about a week ago and was trying to sell me an expensive stand. After two years of planning and setbacks, I might be down for the count after this.

[ctenophore]

I'd get on the phone with Tenecor real quick and start talking really nice to them. See what they mean by

Tenecor is also offering specialized one time discounts and financing plans to both mitigate any loses and to facilitating the prompt fulfillment of past, current, and future orders.

 

If no luck there, did you pay by CC? If so you might be able to take it up with their fraud protection dept.

[Gadgets]

 

It's too bad because that leaves the only glass tank builder nearby "glasscages" Oh Boy.

 

No problem w/ Glass Cages here.

[Grav]

That is a shame.

 

I had recently been contacted by AFY, they wanted me to be a dealer and had I needed a custom glass tank, I might be in the same spot as you right now.

 

I do hope you paid with a credit card, if that is the case, you should do okay.

[davelin315]

OK, a little bankruptcy information for everyone...

 

Bankruptcy is a legal status that can be declared by anyone (with a few notable exceptions) and protects you from having to pay your debts. Essentially, it organizes your assets and liquidates them and then pays off creditors in a specific order. The first ones to get paid are the secured creditors, those that have filed their debtor status and protected their rights to make a claim against a bankrupt entity. After that, everyone is left to pick over the remains. Paying by credit card does not create any protection for you unless your credit card company has offered you a program that would specifically deal with this. Insofar as Trevor purchased his aquarium from them, he's not necessarily protected by fraud as they can always claim that they were making their best efforts to salvage the company. On top of that, Trevor purchased his aquarium from them before they offered all of these specials.

 

Now, the good news. I did a search on Aquariums for You and they are not a registered business in the State of Arizona (didn't they used to be a New Jersey company? They're not a business there, either!). As such, you could make a claim against them for holding themselves out to be a business when they were not. This is tenuous at best, but what you could do is since they are not a registered business, you could go after their parent company... Tenecor! Tenecor is a registered business and has been since 2004 in Phoenix, Arizona. Their listed address, 4300 E. Magnolia, just happens to be the same address that Aquariums for You has. Since they are not registered as a separate business, I would go after Tenecor for your tank and not allow them to cheat you. They would have a very difficult time defending their lack of business registration in the State of Arizona. There is also the possibility of a federal suit against them if they did in fact deceive their customers. Since you work in a law firm, ask around if anyone does class action. This won't get you a lot as the class action attorneys typically are the ones who make out, but if you can be the representative of the class you stand to gain a lot more than the others since yours is the one that you would want. You could go possibly go with a Racketeering charge and a few others that always sound intimidating.

 

Anyway, the best bet is to go after Tenecor. They are Aquariums for You and since they didn't register as a separate business, it would be like Target saying that you bought something from the Bullseye store and so you can't return it to them.

[NAGA]

No problem w/ Glass Cages here.

 

Yeah, but many not so great things also

[jason the filter freak]

condolences, Hope you get all this worked out

[Grav]

Bankruptcy is a legal status that can be declared by anyone (with a few notable exceptions) and protects you from having to pay your debts.

I agree, but debt suggests that a line of credit has been extended.

 

Paying by credit card does not create any protection for you unless your credit card company has offered you a program that would specifically deal with this. Insofar as Trevor purchased his aquarium from them, he's not necessarily protected by fraud as they can always claim that they were making their best efforts to salvage the company....

 

I was / am under the impression that most credit card Cos protect the buyer as it relates to the transaction. (that transaction being $ for an aquarium) As a normal customer you have not extended a line of credit... you have made a simple purchase or given a deposit which should be protected by the credit card Co. They didn't deliver an aquarium, failing to live up to their end of the transaction.

 

At least call the credit card Co. and see what they say.

[treesprite]

OK, a little bankruptcy information for everyone...

 

Bankruptcy is a legal status that can be declared by anyone (with a few notable exceptions) and protects you from having to pay your debts. Essentially, it organizes your assets and liquidates them and then pays off creditors in a specific order. The first ones to get paid are the secured creditors, those that have filed their debtor status and protected their rights to make a claim against a bankrupt entity. After that, everyone is left to pick over the remains. Paying by credit card does not create any protection for you unless your credit card company has offered you a program that would specifically deal with this. Insofar as Trevor purchased his aquarium from them, he's not necessarily protected by fraud as they can always claim that they were making their best efforts to salvage the company. On top of that, Trevor purchased his aquarium from them before they offered all of these specials.

 

Now, the good news. I did a search on Aquariums for You and they are not a registered business in the State of Arizona (didn't they used to be a New Jersey company? They're not a business there, either!). As such, you could make a claim against them for holding themselves out to be a business when they were not. This is tenuous at best, but what you could do is since they are not a registered business, you could go after their parent company... Tenecor! Tenecor is a registered business and has been since 2004 in Phoenix, Arizona. Their listed address, 4300 E. Magnolia, just happens to be the same address that Aquariums for You has. Since they are not registered as a separate business, I would go after Tenecor for your tank and not allow them to cheat you. They would have a very difficult time defending their lack of business registration in the State of Arizona. There is also the possibility of a federal suit against them if they did in fact deceive their customers. Since you work in a law firm, ask around if anyone does class action. This won't get you a lot as the class action attorneys typically are the ones who make out, but if you can be the representative of the class you stand to gain a lot more than the others since yours is the one that you would want. You could go possibly go with a Racketeering charge and a few others that always sound intimidating.

 

Anyway, the best bet is to go after Tenecor. They are Aquariums for You and since they didn't register as a separate business, it would be like Target saying that you bought something from the Bullseye store and so you can't return it to them.

 

Good footwork, I'm impressed.

[Antiguan]

Dave, thanks for the very helpful information and for doing a background check on the entities involved. I also appreciate all the other comments and suggestions from others. No luck reaching anyone at AFY but I will be contacting Tenecor later today (they

[jnguyen4007]

Antiquan,

 

I feel for you dude. In hindsight, I'm glad I didn't get tempted by their weekly email advertisement. I wish you the best and hope that you will get your money back.

[lanman]

Dave, thanks for the very helpful information and for doing a background check on the entities involved. I also appreciate all the other comments and suggestions from others. No luck reaching anyone at AFY but I will be contacting Tenecor later today (they

[NAGA]

This whole mess has given us a little boost in business but, people are very leary and guarded obviously and it makes for a tense transaction til they get there tanks.

[Antiguan]

Update

 

I spoke to Ron Dileo, Tenecor guy handling AFY customers, and was told that Tenecor is a competitor, not affiliated with AFY and will not be assuming any liability for the company. He said that Tenecor received a call from AFY last Thursday advising them they were closing and Tenecor should try to accommodate AFY customers if possible. He also said that the AFY building in Long Branch, NJ is closed. Here's the kicker- according to Mr. Dileo, AFY told Tenecor to tell AFY customers to call CC company to have them reverse charges. I paid with a Visa Bank Card in early April and after filing a claim with Bank of America yesterday, the money is back in my account this morning, even before they have concluded their investigation. I had to fax them all documentation of the transaction, etc. I learned that there is a 60 day window in which you can be refunded money for items charged on CC. Outside those 60 days you're SOL, like many other AFY customers.

 

Lessons learned:

 

>if something appears to be too good to be true, it's not

>if possible, do not make huge purchases on Bank Card, use CC

>never ever ever give your check info for payment (AFY tried to get me to this over the phone)

>listen to negative vendor feedbacks from fellow reefers

 

 

Thanks again to everyone for your comments and well wishes.

[jnguyen4007]

I'm glad you were able to get your money back. Consider yourself very fortunate.

[NAGA]

Still something very fishy about the whole relationship with Tenecor and AFY. There was a deal made between these two somewhere along the line. Anyway the whole way AFY went about trying to scam money from folks knowing they were going under is quite disturbing but, as I said earlier the writing was on the wall month's ago. Fab here on WAMAS was going to get a steel stand from them and I had warned him that it was likely we were going to see AFY go under.....................well ..........look what happened?

[Brian Ward]

Still something very fishy about the whole relationship with Tenecor and AFY. There was a deal made between these two somewhere along the line. Anyway the whole way AFY went about trying to scam money from folks knowing they were going under is quite disturbing but, as I said earlier the writing was on the wall month's ago. Fab here on WAMAS was going to get a steel stand from them and I had warned him that it was likely we were going to see AFY go under.....................well ..........look what happened?

 

If you can prove they had no intention of delivering the products then the operating officers and owners are personally liable for the conduct. Even the shield of a corporation cannot protect the officers from fraud.

[davelin315]

Bankruptcy trumps even court ordered charges. Why do you think so many companies file for bankruptcy when there are huge judgements against them and default on the payments? Do you guys remember the movie the Rainmaker? Little guy sues the insurance company, wins a huge judgement, and then the victim collects nothing because the insurance company declared bankruptcy and defaulted. That's common practice...

 

Also, Trevor, be careful that they have actually refunded the money and not just conditionally credited you back the money.

 

One last note on this, I would definitely pursue the relationship more. The fact that there is no listing in NJ for AFY (meaning no business license) and they list their place of business on their website as the same as Tenecor, there clearly is a business relationship and this is not a casual relationship. Definitely some fraud issues there.

[BeltwayBandit]

Bankruptcy trumps even court ordered charges. Why do you think so many companies file for bankruptcy when there are huge judgements against them and default on the payments? Do you guys remember the movie the Rainmaker? Little guy sues the insurance company, wins a huge judgement, and then the victim collects nothing because the insurance company declared bankruptcy and defaulted. That's common practice...

 

Also, Trevor, be careful that they have actually refunded the money and not just conditionally credited you back the money.

 

One last note on this, I would definitely pursue the relationship more. The fact that there is no listing in NJ for AFY (meaning no business license) and they list their place of business on their website as the same as Tenecor, there clearly is a business relationship and this is not a casual relationship. Definitely some fraud issues there.

 

 

A couple of other points. You could also get the postal inspectors involved, since it appears that they were soliciting bids and such before going under there is a high likelihood that some type of mail fraud occurred. Might not get your money back, but could send some folks to jail for a bit! Also, Dave did you check the wayback machine (or some other internet resource to find a cached page for AFY)? Its possible that they changed the address on the website recently to direct inquiries to Tenecor. One other interesting tidbit... if they weren't incorporated then they were a partnership with unlimited liability on the partners, not just the business. A partnership (or sole proprietorship) is the default organizational structure if there are no incorporation documents. Either one of those setups do not shield the individuals from the liabilities and debts of the company. My advice, go get em!

 

 

here is the wayback for August 2007: (Addy is in NJ)

http://web.archive.org/web/20070827103331/...FormGeneral.htm

[AndrewB]

The parent company of AFY is Generation One, LLC, A New Jersey Company. To get more info you have to pay the great state of New Jersey...

[phisigs79]

Dave i was thinking the same thing. The CC gives your money back as a courtesy so its not over and you should still pursue it. They have the right to charge it back to your card based on what the investigation turns up. Good luck