blmurphy1982 March 22, 2016 Share March 22, 2016 Before I start, I know patience is needed....heh... Week ago I started cycle of my tank. Dry rock, dry sand. I dosed up to between 2 and 3 ppm and then dumped in some Dr. Tims to get things started. Skimmer off, socks out, temp hovering around 83. Ammonia hasn't budged and no sign of nitrite or nitrate (figured as much from the ammonia reading). Can I assume my batch of little swimmers was DOA or am I expecting things to move too quickly? I'm not in a rush I just couldn't find any good timelines on when ammonia should budge. Thanks for the feedback everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami March 22, 2016 Share March 22, 2016 Not sure, but looking up the instructions on his site, Dr. Tim says to take measurements on days 3, 5, 8 and 11 and then to act when the ammonia drops below 0.5 ppm. So maybe you are expecting too much too soon. My recommendation would be to just be patient for another 3 or 4 days and see where things stand then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM March 22, 2016 Share March 22, 2016 It has to move eventually. I'm not sure if the Dr Tims was good or not, but whether or not it was, it will drop eventually, assuming your test kit is working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmerek2 March 22, 2016 Share March 22, 2016 It took me a couple weeks to see anything but I didn't squirt in dr Tims fluids. Be patient it took awhile to be able to dump in fish slowly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan175 March 22, 2016 Share March 22, 2016 Rush = problems Patience = happiness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Lazar March 22, 2016 Share March 22, 2016 Dry rock, dry sand, and no fish. It sounds like there's nothing in your tank to make ammonia, so you're not seeing an ammonia spike. You'll only see an ammonia spike if you add a lot of ammonia-releasing things (fish or uncured live rock) all at once. Ammonia-eating bacteria are everywhere in small numbers, and their population in your tank will grow when there's extra ammonia (food). If you add too much ammonia at once, the bacteria can't multiply quick enough to eat all the ammonia, and only then is ammonia detectable with your test kit. Once the bacteria population catches up, it eats all the surplus ammonia and any extra bacteria starve. So, your ammonia-eating bacteria will always automatically seek equilibrium with the amount of ammonia in the tank. It's only a problem when ammonia increases so quickly that the bacteria population can't grow fast enough to eat all the ammonia. In extreme cases, the extra ammonia causes additional things to die, which makes ammonia increase even faster. Which kills even more things. Which makes even more ammonia. Which kills EVEN more things. If you stay away from rancid live rock and add fish gradually, you'll never even see a cycle. Which shows you're doing it right by taking things slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sethsolomon March 22, 2016 Share March 22, 2016 Dry rock, dry sand, and no fish. It sounds like there's nothing in your tank to make ammonia, so you're not seeing an ammonia spike. You'll only see an ammonia spike if you add a lot of ammonia-releasing things (fish or uncured live rock) all at once. Ammonia-eating bacteria are everywhere in small numbers, and their population in your tank will grow when there's extra ammonia (food). If you add too much ammonia at once, the bacteria can't multiply quick enough to eat all the ammonia, and only then is ammonia detectable with your test kit. Once the bacteria population catches up, it eats all the surplus ammonia and any extra bacteria starve. So, your ammonia-eating bacteria will always automatically seek equilibrium with the amount of ammonia in the tank. It's only a problem when ammonia increases so quickly that the bacteria population can't grow fast enough to eat all the ammonia. In extreme cases, the extra ammonia causes additional things to die, which makes ammonia increase even faster. Which kills even more things. Which makes even more ammonia. Which kills EVEN more things. If you stay away from rancid live rock and add fish gradually, you'll never even see a cycle. Which shows you're doing it right by taking things slowly. He is using Dr.Tims which has ammonia in it. Me personally I prefer the peeing in the tank method but that requires either some live sand or liverock to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM March 22, 2016 Share March 22, 2016 I think he dumped in a bunch of ammonia and then dumped in Dr. Tims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunWyrm March 22, 2016 Share March 22, 2016 What's your ph at? I just had a coworker start a tank and for weeks we couldn't figure out why she couldn't get past her ammonia not budging. Turns out she added a bunch of additives (including Dr. Tims, but we suspect the ammo-lock) which completely tanked her ph and that destroyed any bacteria she added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blmurphy1982 March 22, 2016 Author Share March 22, 2016 Sorry for the lack of a response from me. I don't have a phone at work. Thanks for the tips. Like I said, I'm really not in a rush, just curious if having no movement in ammonia was normal. I thought about the PH and checked it yesterday. Solidly above 8. Only thing in my tank is the sand, rock, salt, and water (and all the fancy equipment). Thanks everyone for the tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM March 22, 2016 Share March 22, 2016 Since no one else has suggested it yet.... I peed in my 115 total gallon tank to get the cycle started. And not just a little bit. Why pay extra for ammonia. 8) I think Rob G suggested it, and it seemed like a good idea at the time. My tank cycled just fine. Your tank is currently empty of life. I don't think you have to worry about killing stuff at this point with ammonia, so I'd say make sure you have a good amount in there and take your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blmurphy1982 March 22, 2016 Author Share March 22, 2016 Thanks Alan. If my wife saw me taking a leak in the tank I may no longer have a tank. Or balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilRams March 23, 2016 Share March 23, 2016 I have been cycling tanks with a raw shrimp and ghost feedings since I'm never in a rush. Yup even pee! Thought I would try the pure ammonia dosing way this time. A week ago I started cycling a frag tank with Dr. Tims ammonia at the recommended dose. The next day I added some of Dr. Tims one and only bacteria but it was a small bottle for 60 gallons when I have double that volume. I let it go for a couple days. As of last night it has not budged at all. I figured my bacteria bottle was too small to do much. That or I overdosed ammonia and killed the bacteria. As of now I'm assuming its slow going and will just ride it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davjbeas March 23, 2016 Share March 23, 2016 (edited) Dr.Tims did not work for me, once I added live rock I started to see the cycle going. 2 pieces of rock from the Marine scene did it for me. Good luck with your cycle. Edited March 23, 2016 by davjbeas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blmurphy1982 March 23, 2016 Author Share March 23, 2016 Update - literally needed one more day and nitrite showed up. Now it's time to sit and wait. Thanks everyone for the tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami March 24, 2016 Share March 24, 2016 Update - literally needed one more day and nitrite showed up. Now it's time to sit and wait. Thanks everyone for the tips. Even if we added nothing more than a nutrient source (ammonia or something that will decompose producing ammonia), bacteria will eventually and quickly colonize available surfaces. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve175 March 24, 2016 Share March 24, 2016 Thanks Alan. If my wife saw me taking a leak in the tank I may no longer have a tank. Or balls. LMAO I too have always dumped in a frozen shrimp and enjoyed watching it rot. A single piece of LR or a cup of live sand can help ensure the right bacterial mixture. Post your location and we'll see if anyone is close by to donate a cup of sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blmurphy1982 March 24, 2016 Author Share March 24, 2016 LMAO I too have always dumped in a frozen shrimp and enjoyed watching it rot. A single piece of LR or a cup of live sand can help ensure the right bacterial mixture. Post your location and we'll see if anyone is close by to donate a cup of sand. That would be great and could potentially provide me some micro for the tank. I'm located in Kingstowne pretty close to the wal mart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blmurphy1982 March 29, 2016 Author Share March 29, 2016 So ammonia and nitrite are both zeroing out after dosing to 2ppm. Only plan on adding one fish at first (why rush the best part). Question is- I'm going out of town this weekend so I'm not doing my water change and not adding anything while I'm gone (late Thursday until midday Sunday). Will my bacteria survive the 3 days without additional ammonia being added while I'm gone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami March 30, 2016 Share March 30, 2016 Probably, but to be safe, you can try tying a small raw shrimp in the tank and taking it out on your return. The shrimp will start a gradual decay over the few days and continue feeding your tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blmurphy1982 March 30, 2016 Author Share March 30, 2016 Thanks for the tip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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