zygote2k May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 Euphylliads and other LPS are receding at a rapid rate in a 300 reef. Alk 8.0, ca 350, no3 10-20, ph 8.0, po4 .03, mg 1200. Tank runs bio pellets, phos reactor, sro skimmer, 8) mazarras, water changes 25g 2x per week. In the last 3 months I've lost nearly 200 heads I'd frogspawn, hammer, caulastrea, mushrooms are detaching from rocks too. I put polyfilter but its still white. No visible explanation and I don't think the fish are eating the corals because its all of them across the entire tank- at least I've never seen a fish eating corals. What am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 Shot in the dark, but salinity and temp? Maybe too much light? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Mc May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 Honestly the only thing I can think of from your post is that your water is to clean. Anytime mine have receded it has been water is to clean (super low PO4 and NO3). Yours doesn't seem super low to me but here is what normal is for my LPS. PO4 .08 and NO3 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k May 2, 2014 Author Share May 2, 2014 Salinity norm, temp norm, tank is heavily fed hence the pellet reactors. Lights aren't set on cook, they're 16" above water surface. It does seem like all the corals are not growing, if po4 and no3 are low can the corals be starving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 No LPS flatworms? Any color change lately? I would skip the small water changes and do a large one, about 50% to make sure everything is balanced out propoerly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaddc May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 If it were me, I'd guess that the nutrients that are introduced via feeding are being removed faster than the LPS can absorb them. I base that thought on the fact that the parameters and lighting are normal, and accepting the assumption that nothing is preying on the LPS. You can test that by keeping the return pumps off for an hour or two post feeding and see if the corals perk up after a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epleeds May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 any electricity leaching into the water? have no clue if it affects it, but it might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&Fmgr May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 If it were me, I'd guess that the nutrients that are introduced via feeding are being removed faster than the LPS can absorb them. I base that thought on the fact that the parameters and lighting are normal, and accepting the assumption that nothing is preying on the LPS. You can test that by keeping the return pumps off for an hour or two post feeding and see if the corals perk up after a week. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 (edited) Try increasing your mg to 1350-1450. LPS and shrooms like magnesium. When my lps and shrooms start to shrink or don't expand as much my mg is usually low. I keep it at 1650 to keep bryopsis out. wont hurt to try. Edited May 2, 2014 by Jans Natural Reef Foods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallreef May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 Robb... I had an event that I attributed to lights a month or 2ago...but i really have no clue what set it off...I lost every single euphyllia in my tank...no other LPS was affected..and neither were the few mantis I have... . sorry I can't help ..I had lights off for 3Days and when they came back on...everything immediently started receding and dying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan175 May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 How about the introduction of copper to the tank. I know totally nothing. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallreef May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 How about the introduction of copper to the tank. I know totally nothing. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk hispoly filter is still white..this is a filter mat that will change color in the event of metals in the tank...so not that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sen5241b May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 (edited) 1+ to other suggestions. You should explore all the aforementioned options. Less likely theory is that there is some pathogen in the water. If so I would think corals would look slightly better after a water change. IF it is a pathogen like some bacteria, then UV would help. But best theory here is the clean water theory. My water is very clean and I have no reactors or skimmer! I've had snails die becuase there is nothing for them to eat. What do I do? Take a turkey baster and stir up crud from under the rocks and in the sand and occasionally overfeed. Problem solved. Edited May 2, 2014 by sen5241b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 Your mg is 50ppm below what it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott711 May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 my vote would be corals are starving. Can you take the pellet reactor offline or reduce the use of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huly May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 No LPS flatworms? Any color change lately? I would skip the small water changes and do a large one, about 50% to make sure everything is balanced out propoerly. look back at my torch flatworms. they moved and killed things quickly If it were me, I'd guess that the nutrients that are introduced via feeding are being removed faster than the LPS can absorb them. I base that thought on the fact that the parameters and lighting are normal, and accepting the assumption that nothing is preying on the LPS. You can test that by keeping the return pumps off for an hour or two post feeding and see if the corals perk up after a week. good point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraffitiSpotCorals May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 What are you feeding? How long have the pellets been online? I think raising the mag would only be a good thing. Low mag pissed our lps off before. Would running carbon help at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k May 3, 2014 Author Share May 3, 2014 I can turn the reactors off for a few weeks and see if that helps. N03 used to be 75 and P04 was 0.5-1.0 and I didn't lose anything. Maybe I chased a number and it bit me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmerek2 May 3, 2014 Share May 3, 2014 My nitrates are undetectable and froggspawn grows and looks great. I do have to run GFO though. Only time it ever looked bad for me is when I had a heating issue and took me a bit to fix the problem. But it looks like you double checked temp accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraffitiSpotCorals May 3, 2014 Share May 3, 2014 I can turn the reactors off for a few weeks and see if that helps. N03 used to be 75 and P04 was 0.5-1.0 and I didn't lose anything. Maybe I chased a number and it bit me. So the pellets are a new addition, I would say thats what did it, rather than the lps not being able to get the nutrients before it was removed. That seems a little odd for a tank with readable numbers let alone 20 nitrates. It was problably the phosphates getting stripped quickly. How long did it take for the parameters to drop to thoes numbers? I don't know a bunch about pellets so if it is the culprit maybe someone else can help with a good solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaddc May 3, 2014 Share May 3, 2014 (edited) So the pellets are a new addition, I would say thats what did it, rather than the lps not being able to get the nutrients before it was removed. That seems a little odd for a tank with readable numbers let alone 20 nitrates. It was problably the phosphates getting stripped quickly. How long did it take for the parameters to drop to thoes numbers? I don't know a bunch about pellets so if it is the culprit maybe someone else can help with a good solution. The biopellets would certainly contribute to a situation where nutrients are being removed faster than the LPS can use them. The bacteria on the biopellets are competing with the LPS (and other coral and algae) for limited nutrient resources. We always think about nitrate and phosphate because that is what we measure. But life cannot live on nitrate and phosphate alone and they are certainly not the only nutrients available in our tank water. In good cases, the bacteria on biopellets and from carbon dosing consume all the nutrients before nuisance algae can absorb them and grow wildly. So why can't that be the same scenario for some types of coral? In this case, the hypothesis is that the bacteria are winning and so the LPS are starving. Like a vine overgrowing a tree. Edited May 3, 2014 by jaddc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraffitiSpotCorals May 3, 2014 Share May 3, 2014 I would think they would die fast like that from rapid phosphate reduction, starving would be a pale color/unhealthy look, not death right? The lps is partially starving like you said, but I would think the rapid rate the corals are dying at is due to how fast the nutrients were removed, rather than how much food they have to eat. Just assuming this tank has had the high parameters for some time now. Either way feeding would help right? That's why I was curious what your feeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k May 3, 2014 Author Share May 3, 2014 tank has 33 fish and all the food is eaten quickly, whatever is left goes to the plethora of crabs, shrimp, and snails. fed 2x/day by auto feeder. I can double the food or turn off the reactors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctenophore May 3, 2014 Share May 3, 2014 I would do the largest water change you can, all at once. No such thing as "too clean" water imo. Reefs where these things live have almost zero free nutrients, even in lagoons. Something is probably wrong with water chemistry (which could include bacterial flora populations and their metabolites) that the test kits are not showing you, and a big change will help reset whatever the problem is to normal levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmerek2 May 3, 2014 Share May 3, 2014 I would do the largest water change you can, all at once. No such thing as "too clean" water imo. Reefs where these things live have almost zero free nutrients, even in lagoons. Something is probably wrong with water chemistry (which could include bacterial flora populations and their metabolites) that the test kits are not showing you, and a big change will help reset whatever the problem is to normal levels. There is no way our tanks crammed with fish are cleaner than the ocean I agree. But aren't there things the ocean has in more quantity than we do? Plankton for instance? Maybe our feeding makes up for it or is that hogwash? I find it hard to believe that oceans have high nitrates and high phosphates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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