Getting ready to start "juicing" the tank, dosing conundrum

[Origami]

You can test multiple times a day, but be sure to compare consumption only for those taken at the same time every day when calculating your dosing adjustments. This averages out the naturally changing consumption rate over the course of the day.

 

Frequent testing at the outset allows you to catch over-supplementing problems early.

[Orion]

Some sample code for you - 

 

My Dosing pumps came out to 1.48 ml/min instead of 1.1ml/min after calibrating per the BRS instructions

 

Calcium  (Doses 70ml per 24hrs - approx 2.9ml per hourly dose, and runs for 1min and 58 seconds every hour with a 30 minute offset)

 

Fallback OFF 

OSC 030:00/001:58/028:02 Then ON 

 

 

Alkalinity (Doses 50ml per 24hrs - approx 2.1ml per hourly dose, and runs for 1min and 28 seconds every hour with NO offset)

 

Fallback OFF 

OSC 000:00/001:24/058:36 Then ON 

If pH > 8.40 Then OFF 

 

 

[YHSublime]

Whichever route you take just TEST TEST TEST for the first couple weeks.  I was testing Alk twice daily while setting up my dosing regime. Then move to weekly testing and monitor to see when you need to add a couple more minutes here and there to keep things stable.

 

Sound advice. Thanks!

 

You can test multiple times a day, but be sure to compare consumption only for those taken at the same time every day when calculating your dosing adjustments. This averages out the naturally changing consumption rate over the course of the day.

 

Frequent testing at the outset allows you to catch over-supplementing problems early.

 

Thanks Tom, that's the plan. I actually hate testing. I probably will only test twice on weekends if I can, but not during the week. I will be dilligent when I first start. I would hate to send everything in the wrong direction in one fell swoop.

 

 

Some sample code for you - 

 

My Dosing pumps came out to 1.48 ml/min instead of 1.1ml/min after calibrating per the BRS instructions

 

Calcium  (Doses 70ml per 24hrs - approx 2.9ml per hourly dose, and runs for 1min and 58 seconds every hour with a 30 minute offset)

 

Fallback OFF 

OSC 030:00/001:58/028:02 Then ON 

 

 

Alkalinity (Doses 50ml per 24hrs - approx 2.1ml per hourly dose, and runs for 1min and 28 seconds every hour with NO offset)

 

Fallback OFF 

OSC 000:00/001:24/058:36 Then ON 

If pH > 8.40 Then OFF 

 

 

 

 

This is exactly some of the examples I was looking for, thanks, sir!

[tpallas]

Not jumping straight to a calcium reactor?

[YHSublime]

Not jumping straight to a calcium reactor?

 

I wish. After dropping bank on some radions I need to either sell some of these corals, or get another job!

[tpallas]

Put it on the registry!

[YHSublime]

Put it on the registry!

 

I wonder if BRS could work that out for me, lol.

[Rob A]

Following your thread...I've wanted to start 2-part so I ordered it from BRS and it'll be here tomorrow. Don't have dosing pumps yet so I'll dose manually for awhile.

[YHSublime]

Let me know how it works out for you. I've been slammed at work, have not had time to test daily, this would be a bad time for me to start . Just water changes for me still.

[YHSublime]

You can test multiple times a day, but be sure to compare consumption only for those taken at the same time every day when calculating your dosing adjustments. This averages out the naturally changing consumption rate over the course of the day.

 

Frequent testing at the outset allows you to catch over-supplementing problems early.

 

So yesterday at 7pm my alk was at 140, today it is 130 (A drop of .2 meq/l per day)

My calcium was at 410, today it is at 390 (A drop of 20 ppm per day)

 

Do those numbers coincide with one another?

 

For alk BRS says

NEED: 67.9 ml

2.2 fl oz

13.5 tsp

 

for calc BRS says

NEED: Need: 348 ml

11.7 fl oz

69.6 tsp

 

My dosers are calibrated to 1.1ml/min

I do not have a PH probe, but looks like it might be time to get one <sigh>

So I want my schedule for the apex to dose 67.9 ml every 24 hours for alk (aprox 2.9ml every hour)

and I want my calc to dose 348 ml every 24 hours (how much per hour, this number should be higher, correct?)

 

If those numbers look correct above, then what should my script look like below. This is the example Orion gave me for his BRS dosers.

 

Alkalinity (Doses 50ml per 24hrs - approx 2.1ml per hourly dose, and runs for 1min and 28 seconds every hour with NO offset)

 

Fallback OFF 

OSC 000:00/001:24/058:36 Then ON 

If pH > 8.40 Then OFF

 

Calcium  (Doses 70ml per 24hrs - approx 2.9ml per hourly dose, and runs for 1min and 58 seconds every hour with a 30 minute offset)

 

Fallback OFF 

OSC 030:00/001:58/028:02 Then ON

 

Sorry if it seems like I'm looking for somebody to do the work for me, but I want to make sure I'm doing it correctly, as I would rather not bomb my tank based on not doing my due diligence.

[AlanM]

Use the spreadsheet to replace the osc statements Orion gave you with your own needs.

[YHSublime]

Use the spreadsheet to replace the osc statements Orion gave you with your own needs.

 

Am I crazy? I can't find the link anymore!

 

Edit, found it, and linked it to this.

[YHSublime]

So I started my alk at 9pm to 6am, because my lights go off at 9pm, I hear alk is best dosed at night for PH reasons?

 

 

Then I start at 6am as soon as my alk stops, my calk kicks in, and will run from 6am till 9pm, when the alk will start up again:

 

 

Look Ma', no hands?

[lnevo]

I would not rely on one day of consumption for calcium. The margin of error is too high. It seems odd that the dosage amounts are so far apart. Focus on alk dosing till your daily usage remains constant. I would check the calcium over a few days at least. It should not be changing. 1dkh = 20ppm but your test says alk isnt that low. Either way won't hurt as long as you testing regularly.

[Rob A]

My stuff didn't come until Monday this week. I set it all up and the calculator said I needed 6oz of cal and alk. (just dosing my frag tank at the moment) I didn't realize how strong the alk liquid was. Even though I added it slowly over several minutes my PH jumped by .5 so it would be much better to do that slower, like with a dosing pump, and at night!

As far as PH dropping at night - I have some nice graphs from the Apex controller. Mine was dropping around .2 at night. I set up a reverse cycle lighting for the refugium and now it drops about .13 to .15 at night. Maybe a better light on the refugium would cause more chaeto growth (and more oxygen) and lower those numbers.  

Edited April 9, 2014 by Rob A

[YHSublime]

I would not rely on one day of consumption for calcium. The margin of error is too high. It seems odd that the dosage amounts are so far apart. Focus on alk dosing till your daily usage remains constant. I would check the calcium over a few days at least. It should not be changing. 1dkh = 20ppm but your test says alk isnt that low. Either way won't hurt as long as you testing regularly.

I'll test again tonight. I'm not going to start until I'm comfortable I have my consumption correct, and I have a weekend to monitor.

[AlanM]

What Lee said. I would not dose calcium at all until you see what you are really using and then dose by hand for a while as a sanity check. Your alk dosage per day seems pretty reasonable given what you have in ther and the tests for it seem to be pretty accurate, but even that seems wise to underdose for a while on purpose and adjust up. Didnt you get a pH probe with your apex? I discovered i could just watch my max/min for the day/night cycle and tell if i needed to dose more alk or less without even testing.

[Orion]

I personally dose calcium and alk over a 24 hour period with a 30 minute offset between the two. You don't have to dose alk only at night.

[AlanM]

I personally dose calcium and alk over a 24 hour period with a 30 minute offset between the two. You don't have to dose alk only at night.

 

That's what I do too.

 

Mine looks like this to run for 40 seconds every 30 minutes.

Fallback OFF 
OSC 000:00/000:40/029:20 Then ON 
If pH > 8.40 Then OFF 

[Orion]

That's what I do too.

 

Mine looks like this to run for 40 seconds every 30 minutes.

Fallback OFF 
OSC 000:00/000:40/029:20 Then ON 
If pH > 8.40 Then OFF 

I actually found dosing alk over the 24 hour period was MORE stable on pH than dosing over let's say a 12-14hr period.

[YHSublime]

I actually found dosing alk over the 24 hour period was MORE stable on pH than dosing over let's say a 12-14hr period.

 

Good to know, thanks!

[Orion]

Good to know, thanks!

Just be sure to offset

 

I made a minor error in my programming and was dosing double the calcium each hour and dosing alk at the same time once an hour. Oops.

[Origami]

 

So yesterday at 7pm my alk was at 140, today it is 130 (A drop of .2 meq/l per day)

My calcium was at 410, today it is at 390 (A drop of 20 ppm per day)

 

Do those numbers coincide with one another?

 

For alk BRS says

NEED: 67.9 ml

2.2 fl oz

13.5 tsp

 

for calc BRS says

NEED: Need: 348 ml

11.7 fl oz

69.6 tsp

 

My dosers are calibrated to 1.1ml/min

I do not have a PH probe, but looks like it might be time to get one <sigh>

So I want my schedule for the apex to dose 67.9 ml every 24 hours for alk (aprox 2.9ml every hour)

and I want my calc to dose 348 ml every 24 hours (how much per hour, this number should be higher, correct?)

 

If those numbers look correct above, then what should my script look like below. This is the example Orion gave me for his BRS dosers.

 

Alkalinity (Doses 50ml per 24hrs - approx 2.1ml per hourly dose, and runs for 1min and 28 seconds every hour with NO offset)

 

Fallback OFF 

OSC 000:00/001:24/058:36 Then ON 

If pH > 8.40 Then OFF

 

Calcium  (Doses 70ml per 24hrs - approx 2.9ml per hourly dose, and runs for 1min and 58 seconds every hour with a 30 minute offset)

 

Fallback OFF 

OSC 030:00/001:58/028:02 Then ON

 

Sorry if it seems like I'm looking for somebody to do the work for me, but I want to make sure I'm doing it correctly, as I would rather not bomb my tank based on not doing my due diligence.

 

The consumption ratio is not in agreement with normal consumption which uses 2.8 dKH (1 meq/l) of cabonate alkalinity for every 20 ppm of Calcium consumed.

 

I would not rely on one day of consumption for calcium. The margin of error is too high. It seems odd that the dosage amounts are so far apart. Focus on alk dosing till your daily usage remains constant. I would check the calcium over a few days at least. It should not be changing. 1dkh = 20ppm but your test says alk isnt that low. Either way won't hurt as long as you testing regularly.

+1  I'll test frequently only at the outset to make sure that I'm not overcompensating - especially in the alk department. Personally, I watch my alk more closely and dial-in my balanced (Ca reactor) dosing according to that consumption, rather than keying off the calcium measurement. I check calcium levels much less frequently - spot checking when I feel the need (every few weeks or even months).

[lnevo]

The consumption ratio is not in agreement with normal consumption which uses 2.8 dKH (1 meq/l) of cabonate alkalinity for every 20 ppm of Calcium consumed.

 

I keep getting that wrong! But i did have 1= 20

[YHSublime]

4/7- alk was 140 (or 7.84) Calc-410

4/8- alk was 130 (7.28) Calc- 380

4/9- I ran out of reagent, and had what I thought was enough for one more test, but results yielded 130 (7.28)

4/10- alk was at 125 (7dkh) with new reagent. Seems somewhat consistent. Did not test calc.

 

The fast drop in calcium (not in correlation to the alkalinity) may be due to the fact that my coraline algae is taking off like crazy. I went from none, to spots all over my overflows and back wall. Just a thought. I will test tonight to see what I come up with, but I've not done a water change in order to see my consumption, and I'm worried that my alk is steadily dropping fast, and I've added quite a few new acros.