Back and forth cyano?

[Djplus1]

I'm not sure exactly what's going on, but I have had a small cyano issue for the few months since I got my LED's. What seems to be happening is I get these little carpets of the stuff that forms daily on parts of my sand bed during the high light intensity portions of the day. First thing in the morning and near when the lights go out, it seems that 80-90% is gone. At the end of the night, I get lots of the gas bubbles on the sand bed where the cyano patches were, too. Sometimes I get the bubbles during the "day" too.

 

It's basically like this every day. I've tried manual removal and had two lights out for 3 days each (the last of which really pissed off my RBTA, and it's now hiding, so I don't think I'll do another lights out).

 

My feeding is really down to a minimum too, since I was finally able to get my nitrates and such under control a few months back.

 

I have one WP40 on full power, almost throwing the water on my floor, so I don't think that flow is the problem.

 

I run Roxccarbon in one reactor and Rowaphos in another, if that helps identify an issue.

 

Any ideas other than a lights out?

[Cord]

Does your tank get any direct sunlight whatsoever? I had a similar problem and tried everything possible to overcome the issue.  Then I re married and was forced to move my tank in the basement. So far, no more problems

[smallreef]

Also...do you stir your sandbed at all? If not you may want to start slowly as it sounds like you also have some gas issues brewing in there?

[Djplus1]

It does get some light, when the shades are open, but they aren't open much. I may try to keep them closed for a week straight and see if that does something.

[flooddc]

I get them too. Mine is in the basement and my leds are not dim able so they are 100% for 10 hours per day. However, I have a 29 upstair with d120 that originally had outbreak. Ever since I turn it down. Algae went away. How about turn down the intensity to see if it helps.

[monkiboy]

if you have a carpet of cyano then that area is not getting enough flow. the pump you have may be throwing water out but perhaps placement can be improved to cover more area of another would one or two would be helpful to cover the areas where you are getting the cyano.

 

all the other obvious water quality bases covered?

[Djplus1]

I have some pretty decent sand stirring CUC, but no I don't really stir.

 

I literally have corals blowing across the sand all the time, so I don't think flow is a problem.

 

My lights are at maybe 80% tops.

 

should I start by stirring sand and turning lights to 60%?

[flooddc]

If I could dim my light, I would start with the light. I have 2 wp40 going at full blast 24/7 in my tank. I don't think it's flow problem either. I do feed my fish lots of food, so it contribute to my problem as well. But as i mentioned earlier, my 29 algae disappeared after I reduced my led intensity to around 50%. So I believed, it's the source of algae problem. Wouldn't hurt anyway! GL

[Origami]

How well is your skimmer performing and do you use granular activated carbon in your system? Dissolved organics can fuel cyanobacteria, so removal can be key. Siphon out what slime you can to export the organics caught up in the slime.

 

Sent from my Rezound on Tachyon using Tapatalk

 

 

[Djplus1]

How well is your skimmer performing and do you use granular activated carbon in your system? Dissolved organics can fuel cyanobacteria, so removal can be key. Siphon out what slime you can to export the organics caught up in the slime. Sent from my Rezound on Tachyon using Tapatalk

Skimmer seems fine. Lots of gunk gets removed. I run Rox carbon 24/7.

[sachabballi reef]

how often do you change the rox?

[Djplus1]

how often do you change the rox?

Generally every 2 weeks, but it was 3 weeks this time.

[gmerek2]

Not sure if I could do this but Im a huge believer that if you sell some fish a lot of different problems go away LOL. Or buy better skimmer? Add larger chaeto refugium and harvest growing chaeto weekly for export? Turning lights down, off or etc can put a good bandaid on it for a while but like tom said the algae is feeding off nutrients in the water so it will be back unless there is a way you can figure out how to get rid of these excess nutrients. I have heard of flow being key to help the skimmer remove the junk that otherwise would have settled in the dead spot but you have good flow. Good luck keep us updated! 

[ridetheducati]

Food for thought...

 

Cyano out competes green algae for P at low N:P ratios;

Green algae out competes cyano for P at high N:P ratios; and

Diatoms out compete green algae for P at high Si:P ratios.

 

Hint: Slightly raise nitrate levels.

[howaboutme]

Food for thought...

 

Cyano out competes green algae for P at low N:P ratios;

Green algae out competes cyano for P at high N:P ratios; and

Diatoms out compete green algae for P at high Si:P ratios.

 

Hint: Slightly raise nitrate levels.

 

Good information.

 

What does "Si" stand for? Metric? Metric:P ratio? That doesn't make sense so can you explain? Thanks.

[ridetheducati]

N - Nitrate, P - Phosphate, and Si - Silicate.  I am referring to the Redfield ratio.

 

Generally speaking, if a system has cyano problems chances are nitrates are low and phosphates are elevated.  Reverse this condition and cyano will magically disappear.  

[howaboutme]

N - Nitrate, P - Phosphate, and Si - Silicate.  I am referring to the Redfield ratio.

 

Generally speaking, if a system has cyano problems chances are nitrates are low and phosphates are elevated.  Reverse this condition and cyano will magically disappear.  

 

Ah, silicate, of course! Thank you. I  have a similar situation where I get very small patches of cyano on occasions and I have 0 nitrates but elevated PO4 (which I am trying to get down). I have never heard of this ratio until now. Very helpful, thanks again.

[TheyCallMeMr.703]

N - Nitrate, P - Phosphate, and Si - Silicate.  I am referring to the Redfield ratio.

 

Generally speaking, if a system has cyano problems chances are nitrates are low and phosphates are elevated.  Reverse this condition and cyano will magically disappear.  

 He is right... Cut the Whites down.. Leave the Blue's strong... The White's will help fuel to Cyano Outbreak. Slowly turn the white's back up slowly if possible... and I do think there is something in your tank leaching out, or allowing the nutrients to Exist... Are you running a Sump with MacroAlgea???? ( this will help with Nutrient Removal combined with your skimmer... Which may also be your problem" No Nutrient Extraction").

   This will help to alleviate some of the Trate's and Trites/ Phosphates...

  

 About a month ago, I had the same problem, had a Rock that was leaching out.. and Couldn't figure out why... I took out the Rock, added more Macro, and turned down the White's ( Kept the Blue's Nice and Strong), I slowly turned them back up, Had my Macro taking in the Excess Nutrients... and Wha-La; Cyano is gone... and has stayed gone... ALSO, Can't hurt to cut back on the Light Cycles Time as well... And Water Changes. lol.

  

 

[Djplus1]

OK, so when I get home tonight, I will start these things. Please let me know if any are out of place.

Stir sand bed.

Turn lights down to 60% max. (currently running a natural sunrise/sunset)

Increase blue light to white light ratio.

Either feed more or pull out my Chaeto to raise nitrates?

[TheyCallMeMr.703]

I'd go More Blue then white... White will help to Fuel the Cyano more then the Blue... Also, Blue will still help with the growth and overall health of the Corals, while the White Light is turned down... So you don't have to worry as much about how they are doing, with the now lower light intensity.
   ( This is basically replicating the " Lights Out " Theory. )  And Rinse and Separate/Trim your cheato... Give it room to grow. Also, Don't go CRAZY stirring up the Sandbed. lol

Edited November 11, 2013 by TheyCallMeMr.703

[YHSublime]

My thoughts, all opinion, no fact:

 

all the other obvious water quality bases covered?

 

Good question, can you post up your water parameters?

 

Food for thought...

 

Cyano out competes green algae for P at low N:P ratios;

Green algae out competes cyano for P at high N:P ratios; and

Diatoms out compete green algae for P at high Si:P ratios.

 

Hint: Slightly raise nitrate levels.

 

 

OK, so when I get home tonight, I will start these things. Please let me know if any are out of place.

Stir sand bed.

Turn lights down to 60% max. (currently running a natural sunrise/sunset)

Increase blue light to white light ratio.

Either feed more or pull out my Chaeto to raise nitrates?

 

Once we get your water params, I would venture to say you probably have high phosphates. I would listen to advice above.

 

Also what I would do, is try a different flow pattern, just in case. I often think I'm doing enough of something, or something is working fine the way it is, and then when I actually change it, it makes a world of difference. Try putting your MP40 on the back wall in the center, and putting it on surge (I've often seen Rob suggest this, never tried it myself.

 

If you're not going to do a lights out, then reduce your lights intensity, and period. I never saw a cyno outbreak when I switched to LEDs from Metal Halides, but I started my intensity at 15% and built it up every day, I run my lights most of the day, at 70% now.

[taiscici]

N - Nitrate, P - Phosphate, and Si - Silicate. I am referring to the Redfield ratio.

 

Generally speaking, if a system has cyano problems chances are nitrates are low and phosphates are elevated. Reverse this condition and cyano will magically disappear.

Interesting. What method do you recommend to increase nitrate without increasing phosphate??

[mling]

Increase Nitrate to what level before it becomes an issue for your corals ? max 50ppm ?

[ridetheducati]

Interesting. What method do you recommend to increase nitrate without increasing phosphate??

 

Dose Sodium Nitrate or Potassium Nitrate.

 

 

Increase Nitrate to what level before it becomes an issue for your corals ? max 50ppm ?

 

Stay in the 2 - 5 ppm range.  Anything above this range and green nuisance algae will become an issue.  The goal is to have just enough Nitrates available as bacteria needs Nitrate and Phosphates available.  Phosphates will begin to slowly drop. IMHO, I have seen Phosphates at 0.05 ppm drop to zero in two weeks.

[howaboutme]

Dose Sodium Nitrate or Potassium Nitrate.

 

 

 

Stay in the 2 - 5 ppm range.  Anything above this range and green nuisance algae will become an issue.  The goal is to have just enough Nitrates available as bacteria needs Nitrate and Phosphates available.  Phosphates will begin to slowly drop. IMHO, I have seen Phosphates at 0.05 ppm drop to zero in two weeks.

 

I've been waiting for you to chime in. Thanks for the info.