Measuring incidences of tank poisoining/stings/bites

[treesprite]

Poll will only let me make 5 questions, so I put what I thought were the most common.

 

Please give descriptions of the situations. Post pictures if you have them.

Please state and describe any other incidents you have experienced that are not among the poll questions.

 

Do we have your permission to use your pictures in any kind of write-up or article about the topic? Can it be "hot linked" or must it be saved in files?

 

Can we identify you in any kind of write-up or article about the topic?

Edited January 21, 2013 by Origami

[MBVette]

You made it so we can not vote that we have not been stung by a coral.

 

Also the only thing I have every been stung by in an urchin (not an option anywhere) I grabbed a rock to move it and wound up grabbing my long spine urchin and broke off a spine into my finger. That hurts like a @$%#&.

[Origami]

Regarding Palytoxin exposure:

 

From this post in October 2009:

"I've had 1-4 (sore throat, followed by major symptoms a little while later.) happen to me as well. It hits you in just a couple of hours. I was freezing and the shaking (shivering) came in waves. I had no real difficulty with breathing, though. I ran a fever of nearly 104 degrees for 8-10 hours. I thought it was the flu, but recalled (after thinking about this thread) that Jan went through something very similar several months back. Like you, I'd submerged a palythoa-covered rock in some warm, fresh water in the bathroom sink, scrubbing them underwater with a stiff nylon brush. I wanted to kill them with osmotic shock and wanted to keep their toxin in solution by keeping the rock submerged while I worked it. I was gloved up nearly to my shoulders and wore eye protection. Even so, I think I breathed in some vapors off of the warm water and that's what I think got me. Rough ride."

 

From this post in January 2012:

"I'm inclined to believe you've suffered the effects of palytoxin from brown zoas, affectionately known here as "Outlaw Palys" based upon Steve's first documented run in with them. I've suffered their effects three separate times. The first was nearly coincident with Jan's exposure. We'd both been handling the brown palythoas in our tanks similarly, and came down with extreme flu-like symptoms that lasted about 8-12 hours. In my case, full-blown symptoms began to appear about 2 to 2-1/2 hours after exposure, but you could begin to feel it coming on in about 90 minutes. In my case, I felt extremely cold, had a mild fever and suffered quaking shivers. My body felt weak and I refused to get out from under the covers of my bed because I felt so darned cold. My heart was racing.

 

"The first time, I'd pulled the rocks from the tank, and scrubbed them under running warm water. I was unfamiliar at the time of Steve's experience. I had gloves, but I was not wearing anything to protect me from breathing anything that might be coming off in the water vapor from the sink. Later, matching symptoms and activities with Jan, and with Steve's post about his experience, the common element was handling these brown palys.

 

"A few months later, I handled them with more respect, keeping them immersed in colt-to-room-temperature fresh water for hours, and scrubbing them there. I was gloved up again but was not wearing anything to protect my breathing. Within a couple of hours, my heart was racing and I had the shakes. It was not as bad as the time before, but it was very unpleasant. Symptoms declined and passed over about 6-8 hours. I very nearly called 911 and probably should have. This cemented my belief that the palys were responsible for the symptoms.

 

"The third time, exposure was much less. I can't remember exactly how I was handling them, but the symptoms were much less pronounced and passed within 2 hours.

 

"The last time I dealt with them was when moving my tank from Ashburn to our current home. I was determined to eradicate the buggers and took a lot of precaution to protect myself this time. I wore shoulder length gloves, safety goggles, and a respirator with cartridges designed to filter out pesticides. I cleaned a lot of rock, rinsing them in water that I treated as toxic waste. I kept the family well away from where I was working. Some rock was so badly infested that I just left them in a closed container to dry out and die. This time, I suffered no ill effects."

 

Regarding cuts, scrapes, etc.:

 

Minor cuts, scrapes, etc. while handling rock or cleaning and scraping against a coral. Soap and water cleanup after. No issues. Normal healing.

[Origami]

You made it so we can not vote that we have not been stung by a coral.

Poll modified to include this choice.

[Jan]

It was actually the first fragfest I attended some 3-4 years ago? Someone donated a huge rock covered with brown palys. Doug was fragging. I'd take the frags, dip them in clean water, bag them and handed them out to the members. The palys were cut and sliming up. I didn't wear gloves. My hands were like prunes from dipping corals. I had no idea the palys were poisonous. The next day and for about 3-6 days I was laid up. Unable to move. I felt like I had a mega flu. My body ached, my urinary output was low, I had chills, abdominal pain and palpitations. I had no idea that what I was experiencing was related to the palys so when I went ot the doctor they had no clue. All they told me was that I must have had a virus of some sort and that it needed to run its course. I drank a lot of fluids and had no choice but to stay in bed.

 

Regarding Palytoxin exposure:

 

From this post in October 2009:

"I've had 1-4 (sore throat, followed by major symptoms a little while later.) happen to me as well. It hits you in just a couple of hours. I was freezing and the shaking (shivering) came in waves. I had no real difficulty with breathing, though. I ran a fever of nearly 104 degrees for 8-10 hours. I thought it was the flu, but recalled (after thinking about this thread) that Jan went through something very similar several months back. Like you, I'd submerged a palythoa-covered rock in some warm, fresh water in the bathroom sink, scrubbing them underwater with a stiff nylon brush. I wanted to kill them with osmotic shock and wanted to keep their toxin in solution by keeping the rock submerged while I worked it. I was gloved up nearly to my shoulders and wore eye protection. Even so, I think I breathed in some vapors off of the warm water and that's what I think got me. Rough ride."

 

From this post in January 2012:

"I'm inclined to believe you've suffered the effects of palytoxin from brown zoas, affectionately known here as "Outlaw Palys" based upon Steve's first documented run in with them. I've suffered their effects three separate times. The first was nearly coincident with Jan's exposure. We'd both been handling the brown palythoas in our tanks similarly, and came down with extreme flu-like symptoms that lasted about 8-12 hours. In my case, full-blown symptoms began to appear about 2 to 2-1/2 hours after exposure, but you could begin to feel it coming on in about 90 minutes. In my case, I felt extremely cold, had a mild fever and suffered quaking shivers. My body felt weak and I refused to get out from under the covers of my bed because I felt so darned cold. My heart was racing.

 

"The first time, I'd pulled the rocks from the tank, and scrubbed them under running warm water. I was unfamiliar at the time of Steve's experience. I had gloves, but I was not wearing anything to protect me from breathing anything that might be coming off in the water vapor from the sink. Later, matching symptoms and activities with Jan, and with Steve's post about his experience, the common element was handling these brown palys.

 

"A few months later, I handled them with more respect, keeping them immersed in colt-to-room-temperature fresh water for hours, and scrubbing them there. I was gloved up again but was not wearing anything to protect my breathing. Within a couple of hours, my heart was racing and I had the shakes. It was not as bad as the time before, but it was very unpleasant. Symptoms declined and passed over about 6-8 hours. I very nearly called 911 and probably should have. This cemented my belief that the palys were responsible for the symptoms.

 

"The third time, exposure was much less. I can't remember exactly how I was handling them, but the symptoms were much less pronounced and passed within 2 hours.

 

"The last time I dealt with them was when moving my tank from Ashburn to our current home. I was determined to eradicate the buggers and took a lot of precaution to protect myself this time. I wore shoulder length gloves, safety goggles, and a respirator with cartridges designed to filter out pesticides. I cleaned a lot of rock, rinsing them in water that I treated as toxic waste. I kept the family well away from where I was working. Some rock was so badly infested that I just left them in a closed container to dry out and die. This time, I suffered no ill effects."

 

Regarding cuts, scrapes, etc.:

 

Minor cuts, scrapes, etc. while handling rock or cleaning and scraping against a coral. Soap and water cleanup after. No issues. Normal healing.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Jans Natural Reef Foods

[Jan]

My other, most recent experience was from shucking and cleaning raw seafoods. The area around my fingernail kept itching. I developed pain in my fingers and elbow. I still have pain and parasthesia in my left arm, from my elbow to my fingers. Doctors can't find anything except positive EMG. It all happaend shortly after shucking dozens of oysters and clams and cleaning pounds of wild caught fish without wearing gloves. I keep thinking microbactrum marinum, which is very difficult to test for. Microbactrum marinum has been known to cause systemic infections, localized swelling of the hands and adjacent tendon damage. It's called Fishermans hands. Getting a doctor to really look into it is almost impossible largely due to the fact that it is rare and many are unfamiliar with how to test for it.

[OldReefer]

I get a rash on my arm for about a week when I brush up against a Leishman's table. I guess that is a Millepora Hyancith?

[L8 2 RISE]

I've had palytoxin issues from a cut described here: http://wamas.org/forums/topic/54689-my-run-in-with-palytoxin/

 

Cut myself lots of times on rocks, the worst cuts are from tube worms/vermetid snails which sometimes break off in the skin.

 

I've had a longspine urchin spine break off in my finger while snorkeling and that hurts like H-E-double hockey sticks! Dipped it in vinegar and that helped though.

 

I've also cut myself on a birdsnest under the fingernail and it became discolored and turned into an infection 2-3 days later that I had to take antibiotics for.

 

Worst sting was from a frogspawn and ever since then I always get stung whenever I touch frogspawn. My whole forearm and area around the sting developed welts and itched a lot.

 

Bristle worms are another common one, just treat with vinegar and it itches for about a day though.

 

I really should be more careful...

[smallreef]

Firstly, I was stung by an anemone when I was 18... didnt know they hurt when they grabbed my hand but WOW.. i wasnt familiar with the type it was and still am not sure to this day (coastal GA in brackish/ocean bay)

I have been stung by a hammer in the past... dont know why it ever hurt me when none had before then.

Have been stung by small bristle worms many many times, only once or twice have I had bristles left in my hand.

I have cut my hand many many times on my rock in my tank with no ill effect yet. Though I have only been keeping corals now for a year.

Edited January 22, 2013 by smallreef

[treesprite]

You made it so we can not vote that we have not been stung by a coral.

 

 

I was sure I did, but I had to re-do the answers so maybe I accidentally deleted and didn't put back. Whatever happened, sorry about that!

[Big Country]

I got stung years ago by a hammer coral on a cut on my hand, very swollen and sore for a few days but I got over it.

[treesprite]

 

 

Somewhere I have pics of my frogspawn stings...

[davelin315]

Been stung by plenty of things, most of it didn't bother me much. Coral "stings" are really no more than mild irritation of the skin to me as are all of the other stings. Really, the only thing that has stung me and produced any kind of pain, albeit very intense long lasting pain that brought me to tears, was getting stung by a lion fish.

 

After I put my hands in salt water I typically will get some sort of cracking of the skin on my hands, unsure if this is a result of something in the water or the artificial salt, though, as this doesn't seem to happen in the ocean.

[zygote2k]

I've shredded my hands on those little calcareous tubes that grow in overflows, been stung by numerous anemones on the undersides of the arm, pricked by large rabbitfish, and have grabbed hundreds of bristle worms. Never had an infection or ill effects from these things. I have even fragged zoas and palys without effect.

[LanglandJoshua]

I spent 45 minutes learning to frag zooanthids and some paly's when I first got into the hobby. I noticed a "glitchy" muscle response to commands. For example I would try to move my arm two inches to the right, it might jump three. It might only move one. Just a general disconnect in my movement in that localized area. Which I found pretty irritating since I was using a scalpel! That is when i called it quits. The contact area was around my hand, but my whole lower arm felt funny. It then began slight shaking, and went away within 15-20 minutes. That is the worst incident I have had yet, though when i move my paly rock if there is any contact past 2-3 seconds I really begin to feel my hand start to feel odd. Then go through the issues listed above, all over again. I do feel similar when splitting anemones, though I have become used to it since the sensation is much lighter. The anemone's seem to not be as potent. I can only guess the "spear" delivery method does not reach all the way through the skin, but the zoa/paly slime absorbs quickly. If I split more than three anemone's I wear gloves!

 

I have never noticed any stings from coral with the exception of the events listed above.

 

From time to time I feel a strong pain under my nail, I believe it is due to stray bristle worm spines when i move things. Since i never see them, I cant say for sure. It usually goes away in about 20-30minutes.

 

I have been cut many times, usually just tube worms. I rinse them in fresh water and no issues from there on.

 

 

 

On a side note, I do not know if this helps any. I met a guy when I worked at petco who actually liked the sensation of holding his anemone. He was an odd one...but it seemed like he really did enjoy it.

Edited January 22, 2013 by LanglandJoshua

[Der ABT]

Fragged some Paly's once for a member and of course had a simultaneous itch near my eye....scratched it and went oooo crap....rinsed/flushed....had a bloodshot eye for 2 days maybe 3 but never had vision problems or any real pain....good lesson and luckily no lasting effects.

 

been tagged by several bristle worms...needles left in, either use a razor to scrap out or pour on some vinegar to dissolve them (usually they dissolve but have had one or two that did not)

also found that Superglue or regular old elmers works very well to remove them...pour them on and then pull off the glue with the bristles in it.

 

Had not reaction to the bristle worm stings

 

i sometimes get aches in my fingers/arm when fraggin zoa's/corals (long time non glove wearer but recently have started wearing gloves when cutting/dipping) but its not all the time...usually feel no effects from going into my tank.

 

Like Rob have also been cut several times by the tube worms with the hard shell that are on overflows etc...those things are sharp, had one get infected but it was a deep puncture wound when i grabbed the pvc it was attached too.

 

Been stung by an acan echinata once...its stomach was destroying a favorite coral and in a panic i touched it to remove it , then went and got gloved and finished...slight rash on the finger was gone in 3 days.

[Curtis Scott]

I am in the middle of my first experience with Palytoxin from fragging last night, and it is sort of freaking me out.

 

9:00pm

I fragged up some Nuclear Green Palys, Purple Deaths Palys, and Captain Americans while using my Gryphon band saw for the first time. I wore protect latex gloves and safety glasses. While fragging I kept noticing the smell in the air and then it happened. A piece slipped from hand and the saw splattered paly juice all on my face. I had been sweating so I used a towel to just wipe it off and continued. It was mostly on my forehead, lips and cheeks. Luckily the safety glasses blocked my eyes. I cautiously cleaned everything up and placed the corals back in my tank with out my gloves on. I noticed the room smelled like fresh cut zoas, thought nothing of it.

 

11pm

Tasted a metallic taste in my mouth when I went to bed, thought nothing of it.

 

2am

I woke up with shortness of breath, my whole body extremely sore, and freezing. I would even say convulsing as I was shivering so hard it was hard to stop. My heart was racing. I bundled up in heavier clothes and got back under the blanket. No luck, I was just shivering so much I got out of bed and into a hot shower for like 30min while I stood feeling dizzy and feeling like vomiting it hit me. This can't just be a flu that would wake me up in the middle of the night. I asked my wife to research palytoxins.

 

3am

I started to chug water and try to calm my breathing, body was very sore and I was disoriented.

 

4:30am

Got back to sleep for about an hour

 

5:30am

Woke back up feeling a little better

 

8am

Still feeling like crap. I got ready to head to work and walking around makes me feel a shortness of breath adding to my anxiety.

 

11am

Continuing to drink lots of water Not as sore as earlier this morning. My wife and mother are pressuring me into going to the ER. I dislike the ER, and mostly needles. From what I'm reading online I think I am in the clear here. I also have an entire days work ahead of me so a trip to the ER could be very time consuming.

 

I definitely feel way better than I did around 3am. What do you guys think, should I go to the ER or am I mostly in the clear?

 

TIA

Edited March 1, 2013 by Curtis Scott

[CaptainRon]

From what I've ready, it seems like all the doctors do is make sure you don't kick the bucket while the toxin works it's way through your system - there's no "cure" other than live through it.

 

I usally don't go to the ER unless I'm bleeding. But that has happened a lot in my lifetime That being said, if you feel horrible, go get yourself checked out. Better safe than dead.

[Jan]

Go to the ER and tell them what you've experienced. Ask them to look up articles on palythoa posioning. I'm not sure if there could be organ damage as a result. Better to know now than later. They may also give you support for you diff breathing; 02, nebulizer, etc.. Don't mess around with this. Everyone reacts differently to toxin exposure. Let them run tests and make sure you're ok.

 

The fact that you're still having trouble breathing says you're body is still reacting to whatever has sensitized it. Your heart may still be beating faster than it should as well.

 

I am in the middle of my first experience with Palytoxin from fragging last night, and it is sort of freaking me out.

 

9:00pm

I fragged up some Nuclear Green Palys, Purple Deaths Palys, and Captain Americans while using my Gryphon band saw for the first time. I wore protect latex gloves and safety glasses. While fragging I kept noticing the smell in the air and then it happened. A piece slipped from hand and the saw splattered paly juice all on my face. I had been sweating so I used a towel to just wipe it off and continued. It was mostly on my forehead, lips and cheeks. Luckily the safety glasses blocked my eyes. I cautiously cleaned everything up and placed the corals back in my tank with out my gloves on. I noticed the room smelled like fresh cut zoas, thought nothing of it.

 

11pm

Tasted a metallic taste in my mouth when I went to bed, thought nothing of it.

 

2am

I woke up with shortness of breath, my whole body extremely sore, and freezing. I would even say convulsing as I was shivering so hard it was hard to stop. My heart was racing. I bundled up in heavier clothes and got back under the blanket. No luck, I was just shivering so much I got out of bed and into a hot shower for like 30min while I stood feeling dizzy and feeling like vomiting it hit me. This can't just be a flu that would wake me up in the middle of the night. I asked my wife to research palytoxins.

 

3am

I started to chug water and try to calm my breathing, body was very sore and I was disoriented.

 

4:30am

Got back to sleep for about an hour

 

5:30am

Woke back up feeling a little better

 

8am

Still feeling like crap. I got ready to head to work and walking around makes me feel a shortness of breath adding to my anxiety.

 

11am

Continuing to drink lots of water Not as sore as earlier this morning. My wife and mother are pressuring me into going to the ER. I dislike the ER, and mostly needles. From what I'm reading online I think I am in the clear here. I also have an entire days work ahead of me so a trip to the ER could be very time consuming.

 

I definitely feel way better than I did around 3am. What do you guys think, should I go to the ER or am I mostly in the clear?

 

TIA

Edited March 1, 2013 by Jans Natural Reef Foods

[kjamaya]

WOW Curtis what an experience.

I have been stung by a carpet nem and that hurt me for a day, my hand have swollen up that I had to take of my rings for a week and lastly, I have been stung by bristle worms couldn't find the bristles so I had to wait it out.

 

I have always gone/cut bare hands but now from what I've read and experiences from others I am thinking of buying some gloves...

[CaptainRon]

And a face shield. Don't forget the face shield to you don't get squirted in the face.

[Curtis Scott]

And a face shield. Don't forget the face shield to you don't get squirted in the face.

 

Will be purchasing one of these before fragging again, along with an apron and use of arm long gloves. Hoping everything will go better next time. haha

[Curtis Scott]

Go to the ER and tell them what you've experienced. Ask them to look up articles on palythoa posioning. I'm not sure if there could be organ damage as a result. Better to know now than later. They may also give you support for you diff breathing; 02, nebulizer, etc.. Don't mess around with this. Everyone reacts differently to toxin exposure. Let them run tests and make sure you're ok.

 

The fact that you're still having trouble breathing says you're body is still reacting to whatever has sensitized it. Your heart may still be beating faster than it should as well.

 

Thanks Jan. Good news is my breathing is a lot better now after drinking some hot tea and plenty of water. I was sent home for being 'sick' so now I will test my blood pressure with a cuff monitor. If my shortness of breath comes back I'll head to the ER and get checked out.

[Jan]

May appear to be overkill but you'd want to protect two areas where entry through the mucous membrane lead right to the blood stream; eyes and mouth.

And a face shield. Don't forget the face shield to you don't get squirted in the face.

[Curtis Scott]

I do apperichiete the concern and advice everyone.

 

I didn't mean to hi-jack this thread. Please PM if you have any additional advice.

 

Thanks again.

Edited March 1, 2013 by Curtis Scott