"Control, control, you must learn control!"

[LCDRDATA]

So I am thinking it may be time for me to bite the bullet on this one and get a controller. On a quick look, it seems the difference between the least and most expensive units is number of outlets controlled and level of programmability. As my lights are all on timers now, and a basic wavemaker switching powerheads, a bunch of programmable outlets might be a nice to have but isn't necessarily required. Even the simplest units seem to monitor pH, temperature and ORP - the last of which I haven't used so far and about which I've seen varied opinions regarding its value. Are there any that monitor alkalinity/dKH as well? - Salinity? - anything else? What are your experiences? Thanks!

 

Also, I've tried to make a poll to go along with this - I'm not sure if I did it correctly or not.

Edited July 11, 2012 by LCDRDATA

[icecool2]

I am very happy with my Reef Angel. Having a controller simplifies things greatly. You have a single, unified source for your timers and most recover from a power-outage without any intervention on your part. You can get as complex or simple as you want with them.

 

Mine controls my LEDs mostly, but I had my sump light on a timer at one point on there and I use it to shut things off for feeding and water changes. Pretty basic stuff IMO.

[Der ABT]

Big fan of my ACIII...bought it used and saved a ton of money, got one for my inlaws used as well he couldnt stand it cause he couldnt figure out how to do it (granted he tried for a few days at most)

 

i thought it was stupid at first..had a reef for several years with timers no issues...granted i know others that have had timers fail and fry/catch fire so both have downsides/failures

 

first got it because i was starting to travel more and i could remotely turn things on/off once i got the internet hooked up to it...much easier on the apex from what i hear...

now im a firm beleiver in them

i use min to control my main lights, Ca RX, and a few random power heads, return pump, heater etc...

 

once you get used to the if then statements its VERY easy to set up....there is alot you can do it them...set up email alerts for high temps, ph, etc, if something shuts off randomly...(used to have this but moved and never got it back online cause there is no internet connectiong where it is.

 

like with most things there can be small glitches/interference from a ballast etc...but once you get it right they are very nice....

 

also like the graphing...can see what you ph is doing/temp over the past few weeks and see how stable things are

 

if you run a CARX get one that can monitor 2 ph probes.....calibrate/replace your probes based on time not when it stops.

i still set my CA RX so that even if a probe fails it wont kill everything unless it goes unnoticed for a long time.

 

Alk i check by hand..CA i check by hand (rarely)

 

thats how i feel about them

[Chad]

I have an Apex, and although I like it, I don't love it.

 

IMO, controllers are great for safety related functions (e.g., shutting lights off if temperature gets to high) and for simplifying timing into one place. However, as with all things you need to understand the drawbacks. One thing that I find with automation is a tendency to become complacent and not check on things as often as you would without it, which IME, heads down a path to a serious problem.

 

But then again, I'm paranoid and a bit old school. I'd station a trained watch at my tank if I thought my wife would let me have someone in the house doing that all the time!!

[Origami]

Like you, I started out with everything on timers. When I went to an AC-III, I was surprised that the thing I found incredibly useful was the log it kept and the ability to graph certain parameters (temp, pH, etc.). The log allowed me to play with my setup and really stabilize it. In addition, I had it set up to "alarm" daily, and sending me both an email and a text message to give me a snapshot of my tank's parameters. Nowadays, I have an application on my phone that communicates with my controller allowing me to control it remotely, but also to check in on all of the tank's parameters.

 

I started out with an AC-III but moved to an Apex recently. One day, (I'll get around to listing the AC-III.)

 

Unless you intend to use ozone, I wouldn't worry about ORP.

 

I measure and monitor pH in both my tank and my calcium reactor; tank temperature and air temperature (I have an extra probe, so why not?), and ORP (I've recently started using ozone). I control lights (on/off/dim), pumps, kalk & calcium reactors, & heaters now. If I get time, I'll try doing some other stuff with it. Maybe water changes? Maybe RO/DI flush & production? Maybe Christmas lights? Daytime feeding?

[Rosco's Reefs]

I wanted a controller for a long time but just couldn't convince myself to spend the money for the top of the line Neptune gear, but then found Reef Angel from a discussion on this board. Because I probably like the DIY concept of this hobby more than I do my actual tank inhabitants it was perfect for me. I do work in IT so I was able to understand the programming and configuration necessary to make the product a success but since getting involved the product has continued to mature and is now much easier to use.

 

I found it to be completely expandable, all the plugs, ports, probes, lights, floats, weather and sound simulations, monitors, charts, web apps, smart phones, reactors, chillers, etc., you could possibly imagine. You are limited to only what you can dream up and work with others to figure out.

 

Yes, it can seem a little complicated to start but there are now a couple of us on this forum that can help and we are trying to get others started. IceCool2 has some stuff on his website here and I do as well. Let us know how we might help, I recently helped a member for a little gas money and got to raid his frag tank

 

Thx for reading!

[zygote2k]

Any of the Neptune products are good, but I like the Apex for its' lack of cords attached to the interface. It just has that single tiny wire.

[armydoc]

I also believe the apex has a built in wireless web Internet. Setting an ac3 up for Internet access with a wireless game controller can be a pia depending on your experience level.

[Origami]

I also believe the apex has a built in wireless web Internet. Setting an ac3 up for Internet access with a wireless game controller can be a pia depending on your experience level.

No wireless, but it does have a more refined web interface than the older ACIII did. And time resolution is much finer than the ACIII.

[LCDRDATA]

I'm appreciating the feedback, which largely seems positive (18 of 21 votes "Can't live without it" or "Very Useful") - please keep it coming . On the parameters monitored question, (pH/temp/ORP/salinity/Alk-dKH/other), I see temperature and pH as the big winners. No votes for alk/dKH - is there no automated monitoring, or just too expensive? What are the "Other" parameters that people are watching via the controller?

[LCDRDATA]

I'm appreciating the feedback, which largely seems positive (18 of 21 votes "Can't live without it" or "Very Useful") - please keep it coming . On the parameters monitored question, (pH/temp/ORP/salinity/Alk-dKH/other), I see temperature and pH as the big winners. No votes for alk/dKH - is there no automated monitoring, or just too expensive? What are the "Other" parameters that people are watching via the controller?

One other question - is it possible to monitor a given parameter (pH for example) with two different probes in two different neighboring tanks? Which controller(s) allow you to do that? Thank you all again.

[Chad]

Other than generalities, I know mostly of Apex since that's what I chose when I went through the same evolution you are going through, so my specific answers are applicible to that.

 

Regarding the probe question, I don't know of any COTS part that does calcium or alk.

 

Temperature is a standard and all that I know of do it.

One pH probe is almost standard and most that I know of have it.

Two pH probes is available on some (e.g., APEX where there are two ports which can be configured as a combination of pH and/or ORP.

More than two pH probes is also available on some, though it will require another part (e.g., a breakout box for Apex)

Speaking of breakout boxes, other parameters that can be monitored are salinity and dissolved oxygen (both of some use, but also a bit "touchier" than some others and require additional installation and maintenance considerations). I think these parameters are both available on some other units.

"Other" parameters may also be total amperage used at a given time.

 

On a system like the Apex, the number of probes is limited mostly by the number of breakout boxes you want to attach with a distance limitation of 200 feet of wire for the furthers apart components.

[Origami]

Yes, you can monitor two probes with the Apex, and can expand to accommodate more probes. My system is set up to monitor two pH probes and one ORP probe (as well as two temperature probes). With an Apex, if I had two separate tanks in separate parts of the house, I could monitor and control them both from one Apex if needed (as long as the run wasn't too long).

 

If you get a controller, be sure that you understand how you can expand to control more outlets. That's probably where most of us expand first.

[rioreef]

I dont have an APEX, but I did see posts out there in various forums on the web about modifying an Eheim Auto Feeder to be controlled by APEX. This would be very handy in preventing the feeder to dump food if other things are wrong or have failed when you are away and receive notification from the controller.

 

Just another thing that a controller can do for you.

[Origami]

I dont have an APEX, but I did see posts out there in various forums on the web about modifying an Eheim Auto Feeder to be controlled by APEX. This would be very handy in preventing the feeder to dump food if other things are wrong or have failed when you are away and receive notification from the controller.

 

Just another thing that a controller can do for you.

Funny you should mention this. For some reason, I think someone here did that a while back (Jon Lazar, maybe?). I just opened up one of my Eheim feeders yesterday looking to do the same thing. Should be easy to do with either a relay or a FET.

 

Here's Jon's article in last Winter's WAMAS Waves:

http://www.wamas.org/forums/blog/13/entry-46-diy-automatic-feeder-for-aquacontroller/

[Big Country]

I have the ACIII and currently have temp and 2 PH probes attached to it. One PH is in my sump, the other is in the lid of my calcium Rx so that the controller can turn the CO2 solenoid on an off depending on PH. Also have an orp probe in the sump but that is plugged directly into my Ozone unit.

[Rosco's Reefs]

Man, it's tough to fight again market share! The Reef Angel will also do all those things with the full expandability of the Apex and the others. Guess it's just a matter of which you have, which you want, and what your buddies have and might can help you with.

 

I do appreciate all the discussion on the board of late about controllers, other than Chad wanting to build his own , we haven't done that much. So keep up the discussion, anyone want to see the Reef Angel, let me know. Thanks

[Steve175]

Often the market share is there for a reason.

 

 

I have 2 Ph probes (1 in DT overflow and one in Ca reactor), 3 temp probes (one in overflow, one in sump, and one in QT, and an ORP probe. I can check all 6 probes on my phone and if anyone is out of range, a sound alarm, e-mail, and text ensure that I know).

 

I was in Phoenix last week and my nanny called that my tunze PH had separated and blown 2 SPS upside down. She had tried to fish them out, but the 1000W was too hot. I turned off the lights and the culprit tunze (from Phoenix), she rescued the SPS, and then I resumed all the programs . . . While in a meeting . . . In Phoenix . . .

 

Apex! . . .

[BowieReefer84]

Often the market share is there for a reason.

 

 

I have 2 Ph probes (1 in DT overflow and one in Ca reactor), 3 temp probes (one in overflow, one in sump, and one in QT, and an ORP probe. I can check all 6 probes on my phone and if anyone is out of range, a sound alarm, e-mail, and text ensure that I know).

 

I was in Phoenix last week and my nanny called that my tunze PH had separated and blown 2 SPS upside down. She had tried to fish them out, but the 1000W was too hot. I turned off the lights and the culprit tunze (from Phoenix), she rescued the SPS, and then I resumed all the programs . . . While in a meeting . . . In Phoenix . . .

 

Apex! . . .

 

WINNING! haha

[Chad]

I do appreciate all the discussion on the board of late about controllers, other than Chad wanting to build his own , we haven't done that much. So keep up the discussion, anyone want to see the Reef Angel, let me know. Thanks

 

Haha!! That was a bit ago and I didn't have any takers on it (though there is a group in VB that is waiting for me to get there to show them how to do it!

 

I looked at the reef angel (and taken one apart )... I think it is a wonderfully fantastic tool for a pretty esoteric group... To me it's pretty much comparable to running linux, it's better in pretty much every way except for the average user's ability to work it.

 

Te be a rounded thread, there ought to be additional discussion on the reef keeper as well.

[Origami]

Man, it's tough to fight again market share! The Reef Angel will also do all those things with the full expandability of the Apex and the others. Guess it's just a matter of which you have, which you want, and what your buddies have and might can help you with.

I think that the original post asked for our experience with controllers and what parameters we monitor and find useful monitoring. It was not a question about which controller was better. Seems logical then that the controller with a larger market share in our community would naturally receive more responses.

 

I think the bottom line for those of us responding (controller owners) is controllers are good and those of us with them make good use of them.

 

To the original poster (LCDRDATA): A good question to ask might be if anybody's had a bad experience with a controller, or if they've either abandoned or changed controllers and, if so, why. Those of us who use and have had success with controllers are more likely to be cheerleaders and tell you to get one. I'd be interested in knowing more about why people leave or change controllers.

[LCDRDATA]

... A good question to ask might be if anybody's had a bad experience with a controller, or if they've either abandoned or changed controllers and, if so, why. Those of us who use and have had success with controllers are more likely to be cheerleaders and tell you to get one. I'd be interested in knowing more about why people leave or change controllers.

I think you've put it better than I could have myself. I know checking the poll that only one respondent does not use a controller, and only two checked the box for "wasted my money." So if you're out there, what did your controller not do or do badly - or break down, etc. - that it was a waste?

 

As far as the "best" controller goes, I suspect it's in the eye of the beholder. Since I don't have the level of equipment many members do (multiple sets of lights on separate circuits, ATO, dosing pump(s), kalk stirrer/reactor, etc) I'm looking for a fairly limited set of functionality, and that more on the "monitor" than the "controller" side. So, temperature, salinity, pH - possibly for two different tanks ~ 10-15 feet apart - and maybe a pump or two. Expandability in case I get more stuff probably more nice-to-have than necessary at least at this point. 250 options all controllable from a smart phone, not so much. That being said, I'm getting some good ideas from this thread so far and I'm happy to hear experiences (good and bad) and best practices while I try to figure out what I "need" vs. what I can afford.