Need advice on how to treat fish

[Jan]

I've asked a couple of oursponsors if they could find a couple of fish I

[F&Fmgr]

careful, with8 hypo if its velvet(spots) that you're seeing, it will erupt! i know i have some quinine sulfate as well as some chloroquine diphosphate. both of these, i believe are suitable alternatives to CuSO4 for angels. as for the secondary bacterial infection, and the swollen eye, research nitrofurazone dips. i have some of that as well, to which you are more than welcome.

 

hope that helps

Sean

[Jan]

Not again!!! You know how I don't sleep caring for sick fish. I'm so upset that I have to go through this. I can't just let them die, but treatment is going to be alot of work. I passed up a pair not too long ago where the male had something on his head for this very reason. I just didn't want to be bothered. I should not have to be going through this. No one should. These poor fish shouldn't have to endure this. They're SO lucky I'm not a PETA person. Ah, I'm just B$%^n.

 

You always help. You're great, Sean. No hypo. Ok! Didn't know what was an alternative to copper. I'll be stopping by.....

 

careful, with8 hypo if its velvet(spots) that you're seeing, it will erupt! i know i have some quinine sulfate as well as some chloroquine diphosphate. both of these, i believe are suitable alternatives to CuSO4 for angels. as for the secondary bacterial infection, and the swollen eye, research nitrofurazone dips. i have some of that as well, to which you are more than welcome.

 

hope that helps

Sean

[marinap]

You can use Prazi with antibiotics. I would use these two for now. And separate the two fish with eggcrate.

 

Shipping stress provokes a lot of problems, I would not really blame DD for all of what you are dealing with. I always tell customers to QT my captive bred baby clowns after shipping. You just never know.

Edited June 25, 2012 by marinap

[Jan]

The male GW is covered in tiny white spots. Looks like grains of salt all over him. The female GW and female Bellus also have the same spots now. It looks like ich....or could it be velvet? Unbelievable!!!!I will post pictures.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Jan

[treesprite]

Jan, I really feel bad for you having all the fish illness problems. I hope the problems go away soon and stay away.

[JerryJ]

I don't know how relevant it is to this situation, but I've heard that ammonia in shipping water can cause problems during acclimation. If the pH in the bag is low, the ammonia is in the form of relatively harmless ammonium. When you perform acclimation, you add high pH water and when the pH goes up, the fish get hit with a big dose of ammonia. I don't have much experience, but I think some people say the "gold standard" in acclimating mail-order fish is to use low-pH water during the early stages of acclimation, so you get rid of the ammonia but don't raise the pH. But on the other hand, aquarium stores get fish that have been in transit a while, and I'm sure they don't go through a process like this. Also, I think ammonia might cause some of the problems here, but it wouldn't give the fish ich. Anyway, my sympathy for all the headaches. If any more experienced people have opinions about this acclimation business, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

[Jan]

Thanks Forrest.

 

Jerry,

I acclimated these fish for about 5 hours using a slow drip. When they went into the QT they appeared fine. Two out of the three were eating. They've appeared fine, all except for the male GW, up until today when he became covered in the white spots. Even though the other two have several spots as well they're still eating. I've been checking ammonia levels every day as well as PH. I've had a small spike at about .25 when I changed the water the first time. No ammonia this evening. I'd be interested in knowing more about this theory for future reference.

 

This evening I've changed 50% of the water, replaced the poly filter with a cleaner one and started to treat with prazi. It's the only medication that I have on hand that's safe for these fish. I've also added Stability. It helps to create a slime coat for protection and stabilizes the water. It can't hurt.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Jan

[Jan]

This is what I'm dealing with now.

 

 

Edited June 26, 2012 by Jan

[Jan]

Swollen eye it came with

 

 

Funky stuff on head

 

Wound on body

[zygote2k]

those fish don't look bad at all. they are probably stressed from shipping and showing the results of that particular stress. the downside to having those fish in your tank is that they will more than likely eat your LPS and clams especially now that they are paired up. my Lamarcks didn't bother LPS and clams until they paired off.

[Coral Hind]

The eye issue is more then likely a result of an injury from netting or shipping, it is rarely fatal. The spot on the head could also be from netting and shipping. I would just observe that for now and focus on what look likes cryptocaryon and treat with copper.

 

This is another good example of why QT is so important. Without a QT tank many reefers would have just added those fish directly to their display tank.

[BowieReefer84]

Those ar DD fish? I would be very discouraged if I were you. The markup on DD is ok assuming the fish come in great shape. This is not the case. Hope it all works out for you.

[tightline]

i would keep the lights off and cover as much as possiable the times i have had these spots in the past seems like the fish want to be in the dark and fewer spots in the morning before the lights have been on also i qt diffrent ..i put some old rock that can be tossed in the trash if you have to treat and some pieces of pipe that will also be throwen in the trash if treated for hiding spaces tell the fish has time to settle so it wont be as stressed

[Coral Hind]

I've never heard that lighting would make a difference in lower the numbers of cryptocaryon. To me it would stress the fish more and what they need now is more stability to relax.

[Ryan S]

the white spots look like ich to me, and not brook or velvet. (which is a good thing - you have a better chance at beating ich than the other 2, which, for me at least, have been 100% fatal).

 

i saw a post once on someone that fixed an eye like that with a needle on the side or something... i couldn't do it myself though.

[davelin315]

No need to lance the eye, it's not swollen really, just bulging a bit. Could also be from a bacterial infection.

 

Questions - where was the water from for the QT? Freshly mixed and settled or old tank water?

 

Also, what size is the QT? The angels, even if they're paired, will fight in a new environment and because of stressors. A QT, regardless of how well set up, will cause some stress if there are multiple fish in there. Stress in and of itself can cause many things to occur and the trauma of being bagged and shipped and then acclimated can cause issues to crop up.

 

The time frame you mention could be long enough for waterborne theronts to burrow in and be seen on a fish if it is in fact ich. This could also account for the discoloration in the fish.

[Steve175]

I agree with above: I suspect that the popeye is trauma related and will resolve spontaneously. I saw the same thread as Ryan S (I think it was from PaulB) regarding "draining the pressure from popeye" but would defer direct intervention if at all possible if it were me. IMO, I would keep feeding them well, provide them places to hide (appropriately sized segments of PVC pipe or fittings or anything else easily removed and reef safe which is sitting around (I use Tunze rocks which I find otherwise too big to be useful for anything else) and wait it out. This time around, the fish are all swimming and eating and I am very optimistic that this go will not be as $hitty as you had recently. BTW, are you sure that you maintain the bucket temp well during such a long acclimation? Double checking that you don't use an airstone during acclimation (as this will depress pH further).

[Jan]

Tank and all equipment was cleaned with soapy hot tap water. rinsed very well. Dried with a clean towel and then rinsed with ro/di water. I ten let it air dry. I did this because I wasn't sure what the blackspot angel dies of. Then I added mixed and settled water. I have a 55 gallon of mix all the time. Water gets replaced to bring it back up to 55 gallons at a half way point. I used a sponge from my sump for biology.

 

20 gallon QT. They haven't been fighting at all. Bellus and female angel hide sometimes at night in the PVC pipe.

 

The fish came out of the DD bag with discoloration, mild pitting and swelling to the head and around the mouth (only seen in clos up shot), bulging eye and injury/wound to it's side. How could he have injured himself so much in a plastic bag? I thought the same thing. I know stress can cause all kinds of issues but ich popping up like this? The ich came with them. DD fish aren't supposed to have any of these issues.

 

 

 

No need to lance the eye, it's not swollen really, just bulging a bit. Could also be from a bacterial infection.

 

Questions - where was the water from for the QT? Freshly mixed and settled or old tank water?

 

Also, what size is the QT? The angels, even if they're paired, will fight in a new environment and because of stressors. A QT, regardless of how well set up, will cause some stress if there are multiple fish in there. Stress in and of itself can cause many things to occur and the trauma of being bagged and shipped and then acclimated can cause issues to crop up.

 

The time frame you mention could be long enough for waterborne theronts to burrow in and be seen on a fish if it is in fact ich. This could also account for the discoloration in the fish.

[Jan]

Me too. I wanted to treat with epsom salt. I read that It helps bring down swelling to eye injuries, but I held off.

 

There was a submersable heater that maintains temperature at 78.5. I mentioned it in a post. Perfect for buckets. No, no airstone. I did towards the last hour add a tunze nano power head. It helped the female GW perk up.

 

I agree with above: I suspect that the popeye is trauma related and will resolve spontaneously. I saw the same thread as Ryan S (I think it was from PaulB) regarding "draining the pressure from popeye" but would defer direct intervention if at all possible if it were me. IMO, I would keep feeding them well, provide them places to hide (appropriately sized segments of PVC pipe or fittings or anything else easily removed and reef safe which is sitting around (I use Tunze rocks which I find otherwise too big to be useful for anything else) and wait it out. This time around, the fish are all swimming and eating and I am very optimistic that this go will not be as $hitty as you had recently. BTW, are you sure that you maintain the bucket temp well during such a long acclimation? Double checking that you don't use an airstone during acclimation (as this will depress pH further).

[Jan]

My understanding is that Angels do not handle copper treatment well. I can't use copper or hypo. Going to see Sean later.

 

The eye issue is more then likely a result of an injury from netting or shipping, it is rarely fatal. The spot on the head could also be from netting and shipping. I would just observe that for now and focus on what look likes cryptocaryon and treat with copper.

 

This is another good example of why QT is so important. Without a QT tank many reefers would have just added those fish directly to their display tank.

[Sharkey18]

Do you have UV on your QT? If not I would add it immediately.

[Integral9]

Looks like you got a couple of fish with ich; me too! welcome to the CLUB! (High Five!) I am trying to catch my powder brown so i can start the hypo treatment on them both. He is proving to be quite evasive. I would do the same for the ich infected fish you have. I'd offer you some room in my QT, but a 30g w/ a hippo and PB is already really close quarters. I might have to deploy the "great wall" (egg crate) to keep them separated. They did seem to get along ok in my DT though. I hope they are still cool with each other.

 

However for the other fish, I don't see much wrong with them. abraisions on the body could be from the mating process as well as the marks on the head. The pop-eye is most likely the result of the shipping process. I think in most cases, both should go away in QT with good foods and vitamins. However, I don't have much experience with pop-eye.

[Jan]

No, no UV on my QT. I can't afford to add one right now.

 

Sooo, I got a call from the CoralFarm Operations Manager of DD's. He told me to treat with copper and formalin. They treat for about 3 days with copper. I had to cut the conversation short so I'm waiting to confirm all instructions with him.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Jan

[Jan]

Did you get your fish from Divers Den too? Are your infected fish in your DT (trying to catch powder blue tang?)?

 

My fish are all in QT and getting along so no need to seperate them or to create a wall. All the fish have ich. The male you see infested has not eaten in days. He also came with discoloration to his head, an open wound and an inflammed eye. It may be injury from shipping or bacterial infection. "Pop-eye" is usually bilateral. Unilateral eye inflammation is usually a result of injury. Hopefully they will respond positively with treatment. Good luck with your fish.

 

Looks like you got a couple of fish with ich; me too! welcome to the CLUB! (High Five!) I am trying to catch my powder brown so i can start the hypo treatment on them both. He is proving to be quite evasive. I would do the same for the ich infected fish you have. I'd offer you some room in my QT, but a 30g w/ a hippo and PB is already really close quarters. I might have to deploy the "great wall" (egg crate) to keep them separated. They did seem to get along ok in my DT though. I hope they are still cool with each other.

 

However for the other fish, I don't see much wrong with them. abraisions on the body could be from the mating process as well as the marks on the head. The pop-eye is most likely the result of the shipping process. I think in most cases, both should go away in QT with good foods and vitamins. However, I don't have much experience with pop-eye.