Ryan S June 21, 2012 Share June 21, 2012 Except for LEDs. I swear that, before I die, we will convert you to the dark side! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoutlaw June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 I swear that, before I die, we will convert you to the dark side! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 For the same 36"x36" cube, a single 400w MH fixture/ballast (used) would cost $300; and $80/year for the bulb = $1100 over 10 years vs $1200 for 2 used radions. So then electric would need to be >$100 over 10 years to make the single MH cheaper. Still close though. For me, if the price is "close enough" then I would stay with the MH since it gives to me far better growth, color, and I love the shimmer. $80 bulbs are not needed. A Plusrite costs about $13. So that's only = $430 vs $1200 for two radions. 400W MH for 8 hours, that's costing you around $133 per year, 10 years is $1330 140w Radion for 10 hours, that's costing you about $58 per year, 10 years is $580 $430+$1330=$1760 for 10yrs $1200+$580=$1780 for 10yrs Granted these are rough numbers and there are lots of other factors but for me the cost is just too close for me to swap out my MH when I know my corals are already happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roni June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 I cant answer for the ati, Solaris, or the bubble king. But I do have the mp60 and I say it's was not the best money spent... It's loud, and kinda bulky, and all the different kind of wave actions are pointless. I use one setting and really never touch it. I would trade it if there is something that can make waves that doesn't require additional apex or controllers. I do admit the external dry side is very nice and it is pretty powerful. I like my mp60s because they don't have a lot of external space taken up. However, I will say that my tunze 6155 is probably as powerful (subjectively) as the mp60. If you want something that makes great waves, get a wavebox. A little bulky in terms of in tank real estate but pretty much the best thing for wave action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roni June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 BTW, in terms of the original topic...I've been looking at some of the more expensive fixtures like the sfiligoi and pacific sun. They are out of the price range I can justify but for those of us with open tops and no hoods, DIY is hard to do, unless you've got the DIY skills of Chad. If I had a hood, I'd probably have tried an LED supplement to my T5s to get the shimmer back. I hope that they'll start making larger, aesthetically pleasing fixtures that have the necessary spectrum instead of spending so much time trying to program peak sunset in Hawaii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Lazar June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 I'm surprised no one is selling manufactured empty fixtures ready to accept a DIY LED build. Or maybe they are and I just haven't seen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlem June 22, 2012 Author Share June 22, 2012 I'm surprised no one is selling manufactured empty fixtures ready to accept a DIY LED build. Or maybe they are and I just haven't seen it. could be too hard to make a general box for so many possibilities of DIY config... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 could be too hard to make a general box for so many possibilities of DIY config... they could make something modular, that could be small or large. connect them like legos for any configuration... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roni June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 I actually talked to Justin at Avast about this. He said that there wasn't enough demand to justify a bunch of set sizes. I would think that having a stock unit in 4, and 5, and 6 feet would cover 90% of the demand personally. For smaller tanks, the modular setups work fine. I know that AI is trying to remedy it with a new hanging kit but it's a little industrial for my tastes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 There are a few out there. I would have to search again, but when I was looking, I found a few empty fixtures that could be used for DIY LEDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trockafella June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 One of the LED vendors (cant remember which one) sold them for a while. I thought it was a great idea, kinda shocked you dont see more sheels for sale. Honestly a wooden canopy is very simple to make. I had a DIY LED fixture on a NanoCube a couple years ago and simply made a small wooden canopy that concealed it all very nice. Cost was very minimal. I have also seen people take apart old CF units and T5 units and install LEDs. Stu, one of our members did it with a 20" T5 fixture, looked really nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 ........I wasnt really debating whether LED is worth it or not. I'm in the LED bandwagon all the way... the question was whether the nice fancy fixture can justify its cost... Well that differs for everyone. First define "fancy" - like Chad's? or just features like storm mode. DIY is almost always cheaper from a pure $$$ point........but what's your time worth? How does appearance factor in? The total cost might end up pretty high...depending. I've DIY's more than a few items (including LED supplement) - hasn't ever saved me a bucket of money when all is said & done. .....For me, if the price is "close enough" then I would stay with the MH since it gives to me far better growth, color, and I love the shimmer............... I'd argue that point. I'd say between T5, MH, and LED water quality is more responsible for growth than the differences between lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 I'd argue that point. I'd say between T5, MH, and LED water quality is more responsible for growth than the differences between lights. Well with a system staying at the same water quality and switching between the two types of lighting I saw big differences between the color and growth. PAR readings were near a perfect match too. I'm not against LED's, most of the lights in my house are LEDs and my frag tanks use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 ....Well with a system staying at the same water quality and switching between the two types of lighting I saw big differences between the color and growth. PAR readings were near a perfect match too. I'm not against LED's, most of the lights in my house are LEDs and my frag tanks use them....... Fair enough. I had the opposite.............but then I know that's from all the other system changes For me it was simply the amount of heat the 2 MH fixtures & 2 M80 ballasts added to the house in the summer - won't be without shimmer = LED After building a LED setup I added up the cost (w/ sunrise/sunset feature) & it was close to buying a setup (it had to look like Chad's, no canopy) = not worth my time. OP - it's up to you, requirements & cost vary for everyone. FWIW - I've never even tested storm mode, I can't even imagine why anyone would use it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flooddc June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 I too am looking into LED. Manufacturers "Claimed" that it's last approx. 10 years. Now, has anyone here or anywhere else ever use it for that many years yet? What's about the spectrum! does the LED's spectrum really last as long as the LED? not even considering the fixture and it's components!. Recently GE introduces LED light bulbs that supposedly last 50 years. YES, "50 YEARS"! Oh really!!, can someone PM me to my grave address! Anyway, (IMO) I think it's all boiled down to each individual preference or "WANT". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 so much hate and skepticism for a new technology that will only help the hobby. for the psychology majors on the boards (not me) -- isn't the resistance to new technology / change -- some psychological phenomenon? what's it called? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 For me it was simply the amount of heat the 2 MH fixtures & 2 M80 ballasts added to the house in the summer - won't be without shimmer = LED Not having that added heat in the winter time meant I had to go out and buy two more heaters which I didn't need to use before. M80 definately gives off more heat then an electronic ballast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 so much hate and skepticism for a new technology that will only help the hobby. I don't see any hate in this thread towards LEDs, just people giving reasons why they decided not use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlem June 22, 2012 Author Share June 22, 2012 so much hate and skepticism for a new technology that will only help the hobby. for the psychology majors on the boards (not me) -- isn't the resistance to new technology / change -- some psychological phenomenon? what's it called? not sure where you got hate LED from... but i love my DIY LED... i just done see the further advancement in the technology with the current high price fixtures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 (edited) not sure where you got hate LED from... but i love my DIY LED... i just done see the further advancement in the technology with the current high price fixtures. the advancement is... the majority of DIY folks use white and blue only. usually just 2 channels. The new units come with many more channels. The radion has 5, and will have 6 soon with the first puck upgrades (dont know what the 6th channel will be. maybe UV?) The . the new units will have more powerful leds. instead of 1w or 3w, they will have 5w, then 8w will come next, then even more powerful ones. all of this allows for customization that was unheard of before. with vega's 20 channels, you can customize the exact spectrum like MH and T5 folks can only dream about. all in an instant. Edited June 22, 2012 by Ryan S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpallas June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 I'm waiting for reviews on the Vega to see what people think. Same lights as the Radion, but less expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surf&turf June 23, 2012 Share June 23, 2012 FWIW, it's not the lite that make's a pretty coral, it's water quality. You can have all the fancy lights you want, but if your water sucks, you still have a brown coral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surf&turf June 23, 2012 Share June 23, 2012 I've had nice looking SPS corals under PC lights, can't get much cheaper than those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind June 23, 2012 Share June 23, 2012 FWIW, it's not the lite that make's a pretty coral, it's water quality. You can have all the fancy lights you want, but if your water sucks, you still have a brown coral. There are several other things like water flow, temp, and type of coral, not just water quality. Water quality staying the same, if I put a 5k bulb on one side and 20k bulb on the other the 5K side will grow faster but have less color and the 20kk side will grow slower with more colors. The coral moves the zooxanthellae around under the tissue either in front of or behind the corals natural pigments to adapt to light so I think lighting plays a roll in color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind June 23, 2012 Share June 23, 2012 I've had nice looking SPS corals under PC lights, can't get much cheaper than those. If PC's were so good and cheap then why did you switch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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