thewire April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 Interesting article about the so-called "Japanese" corals retailers claiming to be and trying to sell... http://glassbox-design.com/2010/5-reasons-not-to-buy-japanese-corals/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott711 April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 #1 | They are ILLEGAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 As club I can't see where we follow a mission statement and still support the buying of corals labeled as "from Japan". http://www.wamas.org/forums/topic/36841-1st-ever-japanese-zoa-frag-pack/page__view__findpost__p__316699 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 (edited) I see a local LFS selling "Japanese" zoanthids right now. They post here too. If this is truly illegal, why do they sell them? Can they prove the chain of custody/ country of origin? Are they simply lying to promote sales? Edited April 30, 2010 by zygote2k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott711 April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 As club I can't see where we follow a mission statement and still support the buying of corals labeled as "from Japan". http://www.wamas.org/forums/topic/36841-1st-ever-japanese-zoa-frag-pack/page__view__findpost__p__316699 me neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 I see a local LFS selling "Japanese" zoanthids right now. They post here too. If this is truly illegal, why do they sell them? Can they prove the chain of custody/ country of origin? Are they simply lying to promote sales? I have the same questions Rob and either way it is bad news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amay121 April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 (edited) Maybe one of the officers can chime in on why it's ok to have this up on WAMAS. I hope that the LFS you guys talk about knows about the possible ramifications that could come with it though. Edited April 30, 2010 by amay121 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewire April 30, 2010 Author Share April 30, 2010 darn...wasn't meant to create such a chaos here!...I thought it's interesting article and I saw people selling it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amay121 April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 Nah, it's no biggie and not causing that much of a stir. It's either one of two things: 1) False advertisement 2) Selling of illegal goods Take your pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 With the selection of stunning corals availible legally and through propigation, I fail to see a good reason to break anybody's laws to add something cool or interesting to our tanks. Furthermore, if having that ONE coral in our tank is that important, I'm sure that there are places that sell legal specimens that either come from near by islands or from frags before the ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phisigs79 April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 I just saw Japanese Micros being advertised by the same vendor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novi April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 True Japanese coral get exported to Hong Kong and then imported into the USA. This is the loop whole for import/export. This process is perfectly legal. If this is how "They" are getting them, then he is covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 True Japanese coral get exported to Hong Kong and then imported into the USA. This is the loop whole for import/export. This process is perfectly legal. If this is how "They" are getting them, then he is covered. How do you know this is legal? Does it make it ethical because it was routed through Hong Kong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 With the selection of stunning corals availible legally and through propigation, I fail to see a good reason to break anybody's laws to add something cool or interesting to our tanks. I agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novi April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 How do you know this is legal? Does it make it ethical because it was routed through Hong Kong? THE RE-EXPORT OF CORALS Describing the international coral trade is complicated by the re-export of material. Coral may be imported from its country of origin, then exported to another importing nation. Records indicate that a total of 3165t (16%) of coral was traded in this way with the majority of the re-export recorded as occurring through Hong Kong and the USA. Hong Kong re-exported 1650t most going to Japan, 1059t, and to the USA, 528t. Thus 60% of Hong's Kong gross exports was coral imported from elsewhere (all but 5t were from China). In fact given the small area of reef in Hong Kong it is perhaps surprising that this proportion is not higher. The USA reexported 1173t of coral, 11% of its gross imports, to 19 different nations. Although this coral originated from 15 different nations the data are skewed by very large amounts of coral originating from Indonesia and Fiji which were re-exported to Canada and Denmark. In the analyses described here re-exported coral was treated as an import of the second importing nation, not the first. In other words, figures given here are net imports and do not include coral which was recorded as being re-exported to a third party. Of course re-export may have occurred and been recorded as a separate transaction, and the third party may in turn re-export to a fourth party, but there is no way of quantifying these occurrences with CITES data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 I don't see where it states that corals coming from Japan through Hong Kong are legal. I see where it mentions corals are going to Japan but not from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novi April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 I don't see where it states that corals coming from Japan through Hong Kong are legal. I see where it mentions corals are going to Japan but not from there. Here ya go chief.... Happy Reading http://www.unep-wcmc.org/marine/GMAD/pdfs/The%20Global%20Trade%20In%20Corals%20(Green&Shirley).pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 Here ya go chief.... Happy Reading http://www.unep-wcmc...en&Shirley).pdf Thanks for the 74 page book of outdated info. All five references of Japan state it as an importer, not an exporter. So that still doesn't support your statement that moving corals from Japan through Hong Kong is legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noobalicious April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 I see a local LFS selling "Japanese" zoanthids right now. They post here too. If this is truly illegal, why do they sell them? Can they prove the chain of custody/ country of origin? Are they simply lying to promote sales? I like how easily people start to say someone is lying. How many people are in the chain before the store gets them? If everyone in the supply chain calls them Japanese, then it would be natural that the end person calls them Japanese too. Also, he did not say that they were from Japan,he used the name that many suppliers are using for that group of zoanthids. All those lying U.S. based Irish wolfhound breeders...cause none of them are being born in Ireland. I guess evey Mexican restaurant is lying about it's food, cause none of it was flown in from Mexico. Who cares if the name doesn't match the origin as long as the product is good. And he isn't charging high prices for the name. The frag pack advertised on this site was way cheeper than any zoanthids I have seen in other LFS. I don't think that $2 per zoo is someone making big money on false advertising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novi April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 Thanks for the 74 page book of outdated info. All five references of Japan state it as an importer, not an exporter. So that still doesn't support your statement that moving corals from Japan through Hong Kong is legal. Thats cool.... I posted references but I can see nothing is gonna change with you ragrdless of what I post up backing the statement. I will continue to support Mr. Coral. Anyone else who is more "Ethical" than me can choose otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Reefs April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 Great article! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 I like how easily people start to say someone is lying. How many people are in the chain before the store gets them? If everyone in the supply chain calls them Japanese, then it would be natural that the end person calls them Japanese too. Just because someone else in the chain called them "Japanese" doesn't make it professionally ethical for everyone downstream to call them that. As buyers we should demand correctly identified corals and not support anything like this. So all those "Aussie" labeled corals are probably not from Australia? Do you think it is personally ethical to sell something that you know was either mislabeled or potentially illegal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctenophore April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 What's so hard to understand about this? If the coral came out of Japanese waters, it is illegal, period. Same as if a piece of Acropora palmata came out of US waters. Doesn't matter how many other countries it is smuggled through, it is still illegal. White rhino horns are the same way. Now, the naming thing is a different story. He's free to name it whatever he wants. Choosing to name something so that it has that illegal I-risked-my-neck-to-bring-you-this connotation may drive sales. Whatever it takes to make the sale, right? bizness is bizness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowerseller April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 I like how easily people start to say someone is lying. How many people are in the chain before the store gets them? If everyone in the supply chain calls them Japanese, then it would be natural that the end person calls them Japanese too. Also, he did not say that they were from Japan,he used the name that many suppliers are using for that group of zoanthids. All those lying U.S. based Irish wolfhound breeders...cause none of them are being born in Ireland. I guess evey Mexican restaurant is lying about it's food, cause none of it was flown in from Mexico. Who cares if the name doesn't match the origin as long as the product is good. And he isn't charging high prices for the name. The frag pack advertised on this site was way cheeper than any zoanthids I have seen in other LFS. I don't think that $2 per zoo is someone making big money on false advertising. So my favorite General Tso is really not a general? Just a plain ole Tso? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Ward April 30, 2010 Share April 30, 2010 So my favorite General Tso is really not a general? Just a plain ole Tso? He's a Colonel at best ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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