how to tell if it's even

[treesprite]

The floors in my apartment are all uneven, so a level tool shows everything in the apartment as uneven. In this situation, what can I do to check the evenness of the stand I'm building?

[Stephen]

Use a level... And build the stand on a level surface. You'll then have to shim it to level it when you place it.

 

OR... You could build it in place and make sure the stand is level and ignore the floor levelness you're placing it on. It will be more difficult versus building on a level surface but as long as it's built from the bottom up it shouldn't cause any problems. Until you decide to move it.

 

I'd go with the first option though. That allows you to move it and shim again or sell it if you decide one day.

[treesprite]

As stated, the uneven floors make the level tool read things as uneven regardless of whether or not they really are. Building on an even surface is impossible, got nowhere to build anything besides my apartment.

 

I didn't really worry over this so much with the other stands I built, because the tanks were not this big, but with this 4ft long tank I am worried that being a little off will cause a big problem.

 

At what point would the degree of unevenness cause a problem with a 75g tank? Would being off by like 1/8th or 1/4th of an inch cause a big problem for a 75 gallon tank?

[flowerseller]

If you build it square, then you can shim it once it's in place so it is level.

 

It all has to do with a henweight.

[Glenn]

The floors in my apartment are all uneven, so a level tool shows everything in the apartment as uneven. In this situation, what can I do to check the evenness of the stand I'm building?

Cut a sheet of plywood to the dimensions of the tank stand that you are building (or a bit larger) - e.g. a 49x25 piece of plywood for a 4'x2' stand. After you've cut the plywood, place it on the floor and level it as best you can. Then build your stand on top of the sheet of plywood. When you're done, move the stand to its final location and level it with shims.

[Jon Lazar]

As stated, the uneven floors make the level tool read things as uneven regardless of whether or not they really are. Building on an even surface is impossible, got nowhere to build anything besides my apartment.

 

I didn't really worry over this so much with the other stands I built, because the tanks were not this big, but with this 4ft long tank I am worried that being a little off will cause a big problem.

 

At what point would the degree of unevenness cause a problem with a 75g tank? Would being off by like 1/8th or 1/4th of an inch cause a big problem for a 75 gallon tank?

treesprite,

 

I've never seen an engineering analysis of how much unevenness is acceptable, so I expect what you'll get from any online discussion is a bunch of opinions based on experience and common sense. What you will not find is a tolerance based on fact or analysis.

 

Due to your uneven floor I would build the stand with heavy-duty adjustable feet to compensate. Shimming will work fine too and cost less, but you may find the process frustrating. Before you place the tank on the stand, the top of the stand should be both flat and level. Compromising here increases your risk of failure, which in your case could result in 75g of water coming through your neighbor's ceiling and you paying thousands of dollars for repairs. In my book, that's a lot of risk, so my advice is to build a stand that is as flat and level as you can measure.

 

I would also caution you on the use of foam to compensate for a stand that is not flat. IMO foam is fine to correct for stress at a point (e.g. the story of the princess and the pea), but nothing else. If the stand top is concave and you put foam on it, the foam will compress on the ends and fill the gap in the middle and look nice. But there will still be more weight on the ends of the tank and stress on the unsupported center. Maybe the tank will be fine for years, or maybe not. Many, many people have had tanks sitting on uneven, bowed, cupped, or twisted stands for years without failure. But you don't have to look hard to find stories of tanks breaking a seal or failing catastrophically. My opinion is that many of those tank failures were caused by the stands they sat on.

 

It all goes back to how much risk you're willing to accept and still be able to fall asleep at night. I would not accept a 1/4" or 1/8" gap anywhere.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

Jon

[treesprite]

I was planning to get a nice piece of wood for the top (not cheap plywood) and was looking yesterday, but was going to wait until the frame was done to get it. I think I'll go ahead and get it now to take the suggestion of putting the stand on a flat board to work on it.

[Glenn]

... putting the stand on a flat board to work on it.

Remember, not just a "flat" board .. you need to level the board to ensure the stand has some semblance of "level"

[Origami]

Seems like an awful lot of trouble making this more complicated than it needs to be. I'd just build the stand square, then shim it level wherever you decide to put it.

 

Forrest, I wouldn't be too quick to write off plywood a "cheap" and, therefore, undesirable. One of the benefits of plywood is that its multiple perpendicular layers make it more resistant to warpage than other, non-engineered wood products.

[flowerseller]

I and tom agree but he's not mentioning the henweight.

 

Would it matter?

[lanman]

I and tom agree but he's not mentioning the henweight.

 

Would it matter?

 

I would certainly factor in the henweigh; even if you had to purchase new, we're still just talking chicken feed.

 

bob

[Origami]

I and tom agree but he's not mentioning the henweight.

 

Would it matter?

 

I'm not sure. One or two henweighs may not be enough to produce measurable deflection. Also, Forrest may have difficulty finding the apparatus in her part of Montgomery County. Here in Loudoun, however, it would be easy to find a henweigh or two (further west probably).

[zygote2k]

A framing square and a level and some patience are all that you'll need to build a level and square stand. Even if you are on a crooked floor.

[flowerseller]

This is killing me.

 

If you get clean, straight 90s on all your cuts, it will almost square itself.

A tad tweeking here and there as you screw it together will completely square it up in a jiffy.

Then you place it and shim to level.

 

Forrest, PM me. You gave me a light meter, I'll cut out your 2x4 stand with your wood and henweight, you DIY.

must have accurate tank footprint.

[wfoxfox]

+ 10 and if you get 'exterior' rated, it is very water resistant and 3/4 inch thickness is stronger than any 1.5 inch 'softwood' you would probably be buying. oh, btw, why put a top board on? It will be covered by the tank...............

 

This is what I did

 

bought 2 4x4x8

4 2x4x8

 

cut 4 pieces of the 4x4 to the height you want - all have to be the exact same length

 

4 foot tank width = 4 pieces of 2x4 3' 9" long

 

carriage bolt the 2x4s to the 4x4 ( 2 bolts on each end of the 2x4 )

 

make the end 2x4s the front to back depth of the tank 18"? 1 bolt in these is fine - throw in a 3in screw here and there for lateral stability

 

put in a couple of 2x4 cross members on the top - maybe a floor sitting on the 2x4s

 

then wrap it with your 'nice' finish wood on the outside of the 2x4s

 

trim it up ( will then have a small lip around the exposed sides of the tank )

 

bottom and top of the door(s) should be even with the trim

 

square each end as you build

 

you don't need a level area to build this - as long as everything is cut to the exact length and squared

 

need a level when it is time to 'make it work on your POS floor :-)

Edited January 6, 2010 by wfoxfox

[Origami]

Heck, you don't even need a square when squaring up the assembly. Once the diagonals on each face are of equal length, the angles on each rectangular face are square. Square them all up, wrap it up, and you're golden.

[treesprite]

You guys are hilarious

 

I already had most of this put together before I asked. My legs are each actually 2 vertically perpendicular 2x4s - I did it that way not only for sturdiness, but also because I thought it would help prevent crookeness and bad angles. One of the top/bottom frames is attatched to legs, the other is not. I refrained from using wood glue everywhere (some places, not all) , because I was worried that I would have to take stuff back apart to make adjustments.

 

The reason I want to put a piece of wood on top is to make up for the non-uniformity of the surfaces of 2x4s, so that all the edges of the tank are in contact with the wood, not little gaps here and there.

 

Plywood always seems to be warped or bowed in the store - same with 2x4s. The expensive stuff doesn't seem that way to me, but obviously you guys think plywood is better for this application, so I suppose that's what I should use.

 

Is there someplace to buy wood besides Lowes and Home Depot? I'm getting bored with those places.

 

Chip,

are you finding that meter useful? I forgot to get the information about it to you, then when I remembered I figured you probably already looked it up yourself. Since I already have the wood cut up and partly assembles, I won't take you up on the offer unless I have to re-do everything completely.

Edited January 6, 2010 by treesprite

[treesprite]

Look at this - this is in the bottom of the tank itself:

Length wise:

Width wise:

 

The floors are cement. There is like a 3/4th" difference between the center of the room and the walls, in every single room of the apartment. Why on earth would they make the building that way?

Edited January 7, 2010 by treesprite

[flowerseller]

Looks good Forrest, is it full yet?

[Origami]

Looks decent enough that you can probably correct this by shimming the stand. Forrest, do me a favor and try spinning the bubble level that you have by 180 degrees and seeing if you get the same measurement. It'll help to check if the level itself is true. If not, the two measurements will not be the same. You don't happen to have ready access to someone with a framing level by any chance, do you? The long baseline of a framing level would give you a better quality measurement.

[treesprite]

Looks good Forrest, is it full yet?

Do you mean that tank? The pictures are from last night, so no! I have to finish the stand, drill, and put in an overflow.

 

What do folks think about this to determine stand evenness?

 

- put the tank in the exact location in which I will be setting it up

- make an outline of the tank's position

- check the tank with a level tool and mark bubble positions

- move tank out of the way

- put stand in the exact same spot

- check levelness of the stand using the bubble locations that were marked from checking the tank

[Origami]

I just check that the stand is level wherever you're going to place it.

 

Finish building your stand. Set it where it will be and check it for level. Shim as required to make it level. Set up your tank.

[phisigs79]

i would use a longer level

[treesprite]

i would use a longer level

 

I have one about 10" long which has all 3 directions (vertical horizontal and diagonal) - same thing with the bubbles showing off. I don't think it would make any difference if I used one of the super long ones. I have one that has just one bubble thing, but it has an angle with a ruler that slides - it's kind of small, but when I check the corners of the stand with it they seem to be ok.

 

I don't really know anyone where I live who would have any tools at all! Living in an apartment with all my neighbors living in apartments - I'm probably the only person here who has any power tools or builds things in the apartment... you should see the looks I get when I carry wood into the apartment! I don't want to buy one when I'll probably never use it again. I could ask Holly, but I sort of doubt they have one.

 

I wish I would stop having to edit to fix typos of ; instead of '

Edited January 7, 2010 by treesprite

[Origami]

The length of the level, if accurate, doesn't matter if your surface is perfectly flat. However, two things go against you with the level that you've shown: It may not be accurate (because it's very simply and inexpensively built; and it's only measuring a very short baseline. If the surface is perfectly flat, the baseline length doesn't matter. If it is not, a longer baseline can tell you more about the "trend" toward level. A framing level is likely to be a higher quality instrument that is calibrated than the little two-inch bubble shown in earlier pictures. (That's why I asked you to take two measurements, spinning the level around 180 degrees between measurements. It was to check for instrument bias.)