Carbon! TOO MUCH CLARITY!

[davelin315]

I recently added carbon to my system and the warnings are definitely true... I had a weird event happen where a turbo snail ended up flipped over on its back in a coral. The ensuing slime it released caused a lot of problems with corals in the vicinity as the back and forth flow caused the slime to coat all of the corals within 1' of it. They seemed to be recovering, but then I added carbon to the tank without raising my lights or reducing the light cycle... and all of the ones in the area either bleached or RTNd... ugh.

[Highland Reefer]

I wish I could count the number of times I decided not to take the advice out there and then had to pay for the results. Sorry for your loss.

 

[davelin315]

Yeah, I figured with the small amount and slow flow it wouldn't cause any problems. WRONG! I do think, however, that it had an awful lot to do with the snail. Never heard of this problem before, but it's definitely wreaking havoc on the corals that were within that area.

[SkiCurtis]

I got a deltec 509 reactor and the 2 out of the 3 times I put new carbon in it,I had a sps frag bleach and die both times. so i guess I need to raise my lights also. I have a 240 so i thought it would not get that clear so fast...Wrong. I have heard people run carbon 24/7 what do they do?

Curtis

[treesprite]

now i think I should take out the carbon....

[trble81]

I wonder if you put less than the recommended amount in (what every they say on the side of the container) would that make a difference?

[Larry Grenier]

I wonder if you put less than the recommended amount in (what every they say on the side of the container) would that make a difference?

 

I'll bet that would slow it down and make the change less abrupt.

[lancer99]

Dave, just curious how much carbon you used?

 

I found this article to be very useful/informative. Even Albert Thiel (I'm sure some of the other oldies remember him) has recanted, and agrees that his previous recommendation of three pints per 50 gallons was excessive, and now recommends three TABLESPOONS per 50 gallons, which seems to be in keeping with other recommendations I've heard.

 

Far be it from any manufacturer to recommend that you use more of their product than necessary

 

-R

[dandy7200]

I see this come up a lot. The best advice I can give is to start at 1/4c per 100 gallons and work up to 1 cup/100gallons over a few months. The slow rate of flow is really not a good "introduction" to the system since the water is filtered the same, it just may take a couple days to get there instead of overnight and that is still way to fast to clear the water to prevent bleaching incidents. Shading the tank with window screen is a good option as well if you need to run a full dose and clear the water of impurities quickly (like it sounds like your doing). The benefits of running carbon are worth the trouble. I would not pull the carbon filter off line, just make the adjustments so the problem does not worsen. Once you get to the full media adjustment you can run 24/7 and have clear water with better light penetration and faster growth so hopefully your corals will recover and be healthier in the long run.

[Highland Reefer]

Yeah, I figured with the small amount and slow flow it wouldn't cause any problems. WRONG! I do think, however, that it had an awful lot to do with the snail. Never heard of this problem before, but it's definitely wreaking havoc on the corals that were within that area.

 

I agree with you, the snail slime caused your corals overall health to weaken in a way that they were more suseptable to the increased light. It's interesting that only the corals that were slimed, got bleached.

[DaveS]

Yea I'd agree that the snail slime is more of the problem than the carbon if other corals not slimed are not bleaching. I guess one thing is that if you're going to do carbon routinely than once your corals recover from the initial change in light intensity they'll be fine going forward and you won't have to worry about more bleaching from carbon.

[dschflier]

Hey Dave,

 

What type of carbon did you use?

 

I have been researching a bunch about carbon use, amounts, and which types of carbon to use. I have been learning that the final estimates companies give are pretty much irrelevant for your individual tank. Everyone

Edited March 3, 2008 by dschflier

[davelin315]

I used approximately 3 cups of carbon, so it's about 1/2 cup per 100 gallons of water, give or take. Might not help that I have also ramped up water changes lately to get to where I wanted to get to... too much, too fast, coupled with that snail!

[dschflier]

What type of carbon is it that you used?

[ctenophore]

Just to play devil's advocate here... how many of you have measured light intensity with a quantum meter before and after carbon usage? It could be that the bleaching is due to the carbon pulling out some compound that corals or zoox don't like changed very quickly.

 

I've noticed that corals can handle widely varying light intensities over periods of several days. For example, we may get 5 days of clouds in the greenhouse where par doesn't get above 200 micromols then 5 days of 400 micromols, all without anything showing any ill effects.

 

When I have corals quickly bleach on me, I can almost always attribute it to water quality issues. Of course I can't say for sure, but I usually don't change the light intensity to fix it. The only time I think light influences bleaching is when a species is under too intense lighting, and the bleaching process takes several weeks or months, e.g., zoas under a constant 800 micromols typically turn very light and shrink down to tiny dots.

[bk_market]

sorry this question might sound stupid but how do i know it one cup measure? I mean which size cup u refering to.

[dschflier]

Good point ctenophore I hadn't thought of that. I think that is another good reason to go slowly when using carbon or adding or subtracting anything from the tank.

 

bk-market I would have to assume most people are reffering to an 8oz measuring cup. That is what is standard.

[jason the filter freak]

Wow dave, I'm sorry to hear it. I saw much the same results the first time I dumped a crap ton of carbon in my cannister... but too bad it doesn't clear up micro bubbls

[danskim]

sorry this question might sound stupid but how do i know it one cup measure? I mean which size cup u refering to.

 

1 cup is 8 fluid ounces... a standard measure of volume. I'm guessing this is what Dave meant and not a random cup he has at home.

[bk_market]

thanx for clearing that up for me guys. :D

[flowerseller]

Just to play devil's advocate here... how many of you have measured light intensity with a quantum meter before and after carbon usage? It could be that the bleaching is due to the carbon pulling out some compound that corals or zoox don't like changed very quickly.

 

This would be my speculation,

I realize carbon clarify's the water, but in doing so, it strips the water of organics and trace elements.

Many of which may be used by the zoozanthele inside the corals.

 

If water clarity was the goal, UV will do the same thing with no chemical composition change to the water.

 

Personally, I highly doubt that snail slime played any role in this event unless it caused Dave to think he needed to run carbon.

I offer this because I typically create anywhere from 8-16 RBTA clones per month in my Afarm which is tied into my 400g system.

I run carbon thru a DIY reactor rarely but am diligent about cleaning the quartz sleeve and/or replacing the bulb regularly. I also use **** Boyds chemi-pure via passice flow in my sump.

When I run and or replace the carbon. I use a Wendy's cup full.

[dschflier]

Chip,

 

I also use **** Boyds chemi-pure via passice flow in my sump.

When I run and or replace the carbon. I use a Wendy's cup full.

 

 

Why do you use chemi-pure instead of carbon? It appears to me that it does the same thing as carbon and properly activated carbon of the correct type is a material that has one of the largest surface areas known. What is chemi-pure made out of? I am asking out of curiosity not to say what you are doing is wrong.

[gastone]

This would be my speculation,

I realize carbon clarify's the water, but in doing so, it strips the water of organics and trace elements.

Many of which may be used by the zoozanthele inside the corals.

 

If water clarity was the goal, UV will do the same thing with no chemical composition change to the water.

 

Personally, I highly doubt that snail slime played any role in this event unless it caused Dave to think he needed to run carbon.

I offer this because I typically create anywhere from 8-16 RBTA clones per month in my Afarm which is tied into my 400g system.

I run carbon thru a DIY reactor rarely but am diligent about cleaning the quartz sleeve and/or replacing the bulb regularly. I also use **** Boyds chemi-pure via passice flow in my sump.

When I run and or replace the carbon. I use a Wendy's cup full.

 

 

Chip,

 

as Daniel Shaw has proven in another thread I don't know jack about Jack... or chemistry for that matter. So I cannot comment on your statement that UV doesn't change the water chemically, but it does affect the biological what-have-you of the water. So we cannot just conclude that UV won't have an effect (or affect for that matter) on the corals as a result of the biological changes brought about. Could the use of a UV filter bring about bleaching (directly or indirectly) in corals as well?

 

FWIW I use ozone in conjunction with copious amount of carbon (to remove the ozone) to achieve water clarity. I suspect that I'm getting double duty as not only does the carbon remove excess ozone, but it removes other organics (and non-organics???) as well.

 

Garrett.

 

To boot, I think you and Justin (and Daniel) are all smarter than me and aren't you all glad that I'm the educator?

[flowerseller]

Chip,

 

I also use **** Boyds chemi-pure via passice flow in my sump.

When I run and or replace the carbon. I use a Wendy's cup full.

 

 

 

Why do you use chemi-pure instead of carbon? It appears to me that it does the same thing as carbon and properly activated carbon of the correct type is a material that has one of the largest surface areas known. What is chemi-pure made out of? I am asking out of curiosity not to say what you are doing is wrong.

 

I don't run it instead of carbon.

I run it as well as ocassionaly carbon.

I run chemi pure because **** said to run chemi pure.

I run it because it covers several bases but like I said, it is via passive flow which means it's very slight use.

I'll have to read the label since I have not in about 10 years.

 

Garrett,

Glad you're the educator but might suggest you also work with them at a younger age to keep track of their personal belongings. This will save gas for us all in the future. Or that you get a VW instead of a bronco.(is that why you wear cowboy boots)

You are getting double duty from the carbon like you sai since I still believe carbon with ozone use is needed.

I have never heard of someone bleaching their corals after starting UV but know it could possibly happen via new found water clarity. It would have to be a pretty neglected yellow tinged tank.

Now, I have heard of plenty of people using UV and then started carbon and bleached their coral.

I understand UV to kill the algae spore (and any micro in the water that passes thru it) therefore the user gaining clarity in the water.

[davelin315]

What type of carbon is it that you used?

Been offline for a few days, I'm using Black Diamond.

 

The reason I think the snail is part of the cause is because the first coral to bleach was the one that had the snail on it, and it bleached not from where the snail was, but from where the slime trailed off into the water column. It then progressed to the next coral. I also lost some of the lower light corals after a couple of days, but the ones that were in less direct light have not suffered. One interesting note, the water clarity combined with fewer organics has improved the coloration of the rest of the corals... or maybe they just absorbed some of the expelled zooxanthellae!