monkiboy's 450g display + 250g fish room

[monkiboy]

about 12 years into reefing and getting my first neptune apex...

 

apex and two DOS arrived.

 

[monkiboy]

more pumps showing up. looking to run mp40s on the back glass and mp60s on the short side that is inwall and then haven't decided if I am keeping the gyres or not yet, then there are two sea swirls up top for returns from UV.

 

[monkiboy]

sump update!!

 

top/euro brace went on.

they are sanding it all down one more time. 

i REALLY dislike sharp/hard edges. most quality builders will smooth out the obvious ones along the perimeter. 

but it's when you're changing out equipment, grabbing something between baffles, adjusting a temp probe that you cut/slice your hand and find the edges that a perfectionist did not work on. 

 

ALL of it will be smoothed/radius'd out, haha. 

looking SO good right now.

 

[monkiboy]

want to avoid nylon/abs screws wherever I can so all hardware on sump will be titanium screws. had them anodized with a few different volts between 70-100v for a fun touch.

 

[YHSublime]

38 minutes ago, monkiboy said:

want to avoid nylon/abs screws wherever I can so all hardware on sump will be titanium screws. had them anodized with a few different volts between 70-100v for a fun touch.

 

Where did you get these? I'd love to put some on my Reef Octopus Skimmer, the nylon one suuuuuuck. 

 

So x2 MP60's and x3 MP40's? I like the flow that gyres offer, but they need to be cleaned all the time, and then there's the entire cord thing. I'll be interested to hear how you enjoy the efficiencies of an Apex. Will you be using a Trident? 

[monkiboy]

1 minute ago, YHSublime said:

 

Where did you get these? I'd love to put some on my Reef Octopus Skimmer, the nylon one suuuuuuck. 

 

kyle @ adaptive reef sourced them for me on this build. kyle is the sump builder. 

 

2 minutes ago, YHSublime said:

So x2 MP60's and x3 MP40's? I like the flow that gyres offer, but they need to be cleaned all the time, and then there's the entire cord thing. I'll be interested to hear how you enjoy the efficiencies of an Apex. Will you be using a Trident? 

I already have a few other vortechs in boxes... somewhere. 

I think it will ultimately start out with x4 mp60s and x6 mp40s and the two sea swirls up top.

once corals grow in and things change I am sure I will have to revise that and flow is a "fluid" thing.

 

yeah, i hear the gyres are a nightmare for maintenance. something like every three months at least. 

my last experience a few years ago they seemed brittle and delicate to touch with so many small parts. I don't know. 

 

i will be going in heavy to apex/neptune world at an attempt at a LOT of automation. adaptive reef is basically tossing in one of everything they make with the equipment panel board and sump build. i am most excited for the jet flighter plane toggle switch box for most common automations. 

 

yes, a trident and probably one other testing machine like an alkatronic just for "trust but verify" sake or maybe a reefbot with more versatility. i really liked the alkatronic i had when they first came out years ago.

 

[YHSublime]

3 minutes ago, monkiboy said:

kyle @ adaptive reef sourced them for me on this build. kyle is the sump builder. 

 

I guess that makes sense, the photo looks like it's on the same carpet now that I revisit. 

 

3 minutes ago, monkiboy said:

I already have a few other vortechs in boxes... somewhere. 

I think it will ultimately start out with x4 mp60s and x6 mp40s and the two sea swirls up top.

once corals grow in and things change I am sure I will have to revise that and flow is a "fluid" thing.

 

I was going to say, you'll probably want a bit more flow wise. 

 

5 minutes ago, monkiboy said:

yeah, i hear the gyres are a nightmare for maintenance. something like every three months at least. 

my last experience a few years ago they seemed brittle and delicate to touch with so many small parts. I don't know. 

 

I have to clean the coraline off my MP's every 3 months, the gyres were more frequent.

 

6 minutes ago, monkiboy said:

i will be going in heavy to apex/neptune world at an attempt at a LOT of automation. adaptive reef is basically tossing in one of everything they make with the equipment panel board and sump build. i am most excited for the jet flighter plane toggle switch box for most common automations. 

 

yes, a trident and probably one other testing machine like an alkatronic just for "trust but verify" sake or maybe a reefbot with more versatility. i really liked the alkatronic i had when they first came out years ago.

 

 

The toggle switch box sounds fire. Such an epic build, and it's still in the start! Have you questioned if you should have gone bigger yet?!

[monkiboy]

7 minutes ago, YHSublime said:

Have you questioned if you should have gone bigger yet?!

unfortunately, yes. the moment it went in I was eyeing how much room was left on the wall. 

ultimately the wife reminded me of the balance in the space it occupies. 

next tank will be larger, for sure

[gws3]

Awesome build thread, thanks for sharing. I really enjoyed the construction pics, it’s not too often someone can make such significant changes to their home to accommodate their reef system plans.

 

Now for my feedback / criticisms since you asked for it! All of this is from firsthand experience / lessons learned / things I could have done better in my own reefing career.  

 

Rockwork:

I’m loving the very dynamic rockwork with the towers extending all the way up and all the overhangs and swimming channels for the fish. For some of the more aggressive structures, specifically the cantilevers overhangs, relying on BRS super glue gel and two-part epoxy would make me nervous. I believe the bond of the cyanoacrylate weakens over time. It could be organics developing at the glue/rock interface. I have some pieces of rock glued together in this manner and after a while it doesn’t take much force to cause the joints to fail. I would reinforce the critical joints with the mortar kit from Marco rocks. Eventually you’ll have an encrusted acro or something else on the rock you want to scrape off and you’ll need to put some force against it. That last thing you want is your rockwork covered in Acro colonies to break loose. I’ve had it happen with the exact method you’re using, and it can be very difficult and frustrating to get it back together correctly. Not saying you’re going to break a glass panel or anything catastrophic like that if it happens, it’s just very hard to get the rock back together.

 

In my 425XL I have a very aggressive cantilevered overhang and used the mortar kit for this purpose. two-part epoxy and super glue just wouldn’t have been strong enough and held long term. I can’t remember if I did it with the tank full or dry. I think it was full.

 

I suspect you have rock too close to the front glass. When I aquascaped my 300 I used too much rock and would have used less if I could do it over again. Now I have certain places where the magnetic cleaner can’t fit between the tabling acros and the glass. If I did it again, I’d keep 6-8 inches of a gap.

 

I also used 100% dry marco rock on my 300. It took 18 months for SPS to look decent and two years before they were keeping ideal colors. I don’t know if it took that long for a good bacteria population, the rock was leeching phosphate or something else, or what the cause was. I didn’t use much in the way of bacteria additives. This was 8 or 9 years ago, I don’t think we had as many good options for bacteria additives then. Definitely give some thought to a plan for getting micro biodiversity established earlier. I know you’re more patient than me, but 2 years felt like forever!

 

Sandbed:

I echo your thoughts in an earlier post about gluing together the majority of the sandbed. All my tanks except for one are bare bottom. The one tank with substrate is such a pain. It’s a detritus trap. Grows cyano in patches as a result. I use a coarse aragonite media and it’s shallow. Maybe that’s the problem, needs to be sand and deep? But it still gets blown around even with medium flow. Siphoning it is a pain. It will be especially difficult in a large tank like yours without front accessibility. Probably something you’re just going to have to live with since you need something for your wrasses. I’m not sure what wrasses you’re keeping, I keep plenty of Cirrhilabrus without any sand. But I know for some other types a sand bed is a hard requirement.

 

UV:

I’m interested to see what impact your giant UV has long term and why you’re using one. Overtime I’ve taken all UV off my systems and I haven’t seen any impact. But they were probably all undersized for the water volume, at least compared to this beast you’re using. I do think they are beneficial to keeping fish disease in check during early stages of stocking. Also, they’re probably useful during ugly phases such as dinos, etc. I’m curious what you think the long-term benefits are.

 

Lighting:

I definitely like what you picked with the radion blue / reefbrite XHO combo. I run this combo on a lot of my tanks. Corals love this light combo and look great under it. Where I’d strongly recommend you make a change is how you’re laying them out.

The marketing with many modern LED fixtures is misleading in my honest opinion. They embellish on the area one fixture can cover. When LED fixtures were first coming out, they were advertised as being a replacement for a 250W halide in a large reflector. They simply do not have the intensity or the spread in reality. When I replaced 250W radiums with radions it took 2 XR30s or 4 XR15 in each location I replaced one halide. I would say two XR30s exceeds the output of a single halide, but a single xr30 falls far short of matching the coverage of a halide. I read somewhere a G6 XR30 can cover 4 feet. I think that’s absolute rubbish.

The G5 (and I assume G6) optics are very impressive with how far they can spread light, but it’s at the cost of intensity. As a result, you have to hang them very low (6-8 inches above the water). I know there are folks that hang them high and are very disappointed with the peak PAR. The amazing spread requires them to be hung low.

What I don’t like about your layout is trying to get a single XR30 to cover 3’ front to back. You are going to get a lot of shadowing on the front of rockwork just a result of geometry. Once you get acros in there the corals on the bottom are going to be shadowed by the ones above even if they’re staggered. I probably need to draw a picture to better communicate my thought.

What I recommend is a grid of 2 XR30s front to back but 4 XR30s from left to right (a total of 8). And stick with your current amount of reefbrites, I think having four from to back is plenty assuming you’re using XR30 blues (not pros).

 

Accessibility:

From the front everything looks super clean and modern. I wonder if not having any access from the front is going to make things really difficult. Mounting a coral and then running around to the other side to make sure it looks good. Also, siphoning the detritus. What about cutting an access hole and covering it with a metal print on a hinge?

I’d suggest finding a way to raise and lower the light racks easily. On my 300 I can barely get my arm in the tank due to having to mount the radions so low.

 

Spares:

Do you have a spare of those fancy Abyzz pumps? I remember JF was telling me he got rid of all his high-end bubbleking skimmers because a pump broke and a replacement had a long cost and lead time. I know they’re expensive, but the return pump is probably the most important piece of hardware on the entire system. I believe you’re using the Abyzz because you need the head pressure to push up to the next floor? If one fails and you don’t have a backup it may take a while to get one, and you may not be able to find a temporary pump locally that can push that amount of flow up to the next floor.

 

CO2:

I worry about CO2 build up and low pH with the tank room and filter room being closed off. I know you sent back the 8000 skimmer and got a 6000. Honestly, I didn’t hate the oversized skimmer for CO2 rejection like you suggested in an earlier post. Do you plan to plumb the 6000 air intake to the outdoors? Roughly speaking this will raise pH by 0.1 in my experience. I run mine through a large carbon block (the type they use for growing pot indoors) just in case something nasty is in the air.

 

I monitor CO2 using a 5V CO2 sensor and a PM2 module. I’m in a ~1400 sq ft basement and just me being down there will cause CO2 to go up. I pump in (through a carbon block) and exhaust a lot of fresh air for the purpose of temp/humidity control and to keep CO2 from accumulating too high. I think it has a significant impact. Perhaps you could leverage that window for some fresh air exchange?

 

Ok, that’s all I have for now. I see so many things that I think you’re doing great with and this build is going to turn out exceptionally without a doubt. But rather than just post a bunch of comments agreeing with what you’re already doing I wanted to focus on feedback based on my firsthand experiences and things I would have done differently in my reefing career. Hopefully it’s helpful!

[monkiboy]

sump is coming along...

 

 

[monkiboy]

On 5/16/2022 at 1:07 PM, gws3 said:

Awesome build thread, thanks for sharing. I really enjoyed the construction pics, it’s not too often someone can make such significant changes to their home to accommodate their reef system plans.

 

 

 

Now for my feedback / criticisms since you asked for it! All of this is from firsthand experience / lessons learned / things I could have done better in my own reefing career.  

 

 

 

Rockwork:

 

I’m loving the very dynamic rockwork with the towers extending all the way up and all the overhangs and swimming channels for the fish. For some of the more aggressive structures, specifically the cantilevers overhangs, relying on BRS super glue gel and two-part epoxy would make me nervous. I believe the bond of the cyanoacrylate weakens over time. It could be organics developing at the glue/rock interface. I have some pieces of rock glued together in this manner and after a while it doesn’t take much force to cause the joints to fail. I would reinforce the critical joints with the mortar kit from Marco rocks. Eventually you’ll have an encrusted acro or something else on the rock you want to scrape off and you’ll need to put some force against it. That last thing you want is your rockwork covered in Acro colonies to break loose. I’ve had it happen with the exact method you’re using, and it can be very difficult and frustrating to get it back together correctly. Not saying you’re going to break a glass panel or anything catastrophic like that if it happens, it’s just very hard to get the rock back together.

 

 

 

In my 425XL I have a very aggressive cantilevered overhang and used the mortar kit for this purpose. two-part epoxy and super glue just wouldn’t have been strong enough and held long term. I can’t remember if I did it with the tank full or dry. I think it was full.

 

 

 

I suspect you have rock too close to the front glass. When I aquascaped my 300 I used too much rock and would have used less if I could do it over again. Now I have certain places where the magnetic cleaner can’t fit between the tabling acros and the glass. If I did it again, I’d keep 6-8 inches of a gap.

 

 

 

I also used 100% dry marco rock on my 300. It took 18 months for SPS to look decent and two years before they were keeping ideal colors. I don’t know if it took that long for a good bacteria population, the rock was leeching phosphate or something else, or what the cause was. I didn’t use much in the way of bacteria additives. This was 8 or 9 years ago, I don’t think we had as many good options for bacteria additives then. Definitely give some thought to a plan for getting micro biodiversity established earlier. I know you’re more patient than me, but 2 years felt like forever!

 

 

 

Sandbed:

 

I echo your thoughts in an earlier post about gluing together the majority of the sandbed. All my tanks except for one are bare bottom. The one tank with substrate is such a pain. It’s a detritus trap. Grows cyano in patches as a result. I use a coarse aragonite media and it’s shallow. Maybe that’s the problem, needs to be sand and deep? But it still gets blown around even with medium flow. Siphoning it is a pain. It will be especially difficult in a large tank like yours without front accessibility. Probably something you’re just going to have to live with since you need something for your wrasses. I’m not sure what wrasses you’re keeping, I keep plenty of Cirrhilabrus without any sand. But I know for some other types a sand bed is a hard requirement.

 

 

 

UV:

 

I’m interested to see what impact your giant UV has long term and why you’re using one. Overtime I’ve taken all UV off my systems and I haven’t seen any impact. But they were probably all undersized for the water volume, at least compared to this beast you’re using. I do think they are beneficial to keeping fish disease in check during early stages of stocking. Also, they’re probably useful during ugly phases such as dinos, etc. I’m curious what you think the long-term benefits are.

 

 

 

Lighting:

 

I definitely like what you picked with the radion blue / reefbrite XHO combo. I run this combo on a lot of my tanks. Corals love this light combo and look great under it. Where I’d strongly recommend you make a change is how you’re laying them out.

 

The marketing with many modern LED fixtures is misleading in my honest opinion. They embellish on the area one fixture can cover. When LED fixtures were first coming out, they were advertised as being a replacement for a 250W halide in a large reflector. They simply do not have the intensity or the spread in reality. When I replaced 250W radiums with radions it took 2 XR30s or 4 XR15 in each location I replaced one halide. I would say two XR30s exceeds the output of a single halide, but a single xr30 falls far short of matching the coverage of a halide. I read somewhere a G6 XR30 can cover 4 feet. I think that’s absolute rubbish.

 

The G5 (and I assume G6) optics are very impressive with how far they can spread light, but it’s at the cost of intensity. As a result, you have to hang them very low (6-8 inches above the water). I know there are folks that hang them high and are very disappointed with the peak PAR. The amazing spread requires them to be hung low.

 

What I don’t like about your layout is trying to get a single XR30 to cover 3’ front to back. You are going to get a lot of shadowing on the front of rockwork just a result of geometry. Once you get acros in there the corals on the bottom are going to be shadowed by the ones above even if they’re staggered. I probably need to draw a picture to better communicate my thought.

 

What I recommend is a grid of 2 XR30s front to back but 4 XR30s from left to right (a total of 8). And stick with your current amount of reefbrites, I think having four from to back is plenty assuming you’re using XR30 blues (not pros).

 

 

 

Accessibility:

 

From the front everything looks super clean and modern. I wonder if not having any access from the front is going to make things really difficult. Mounting a coral and then running around to the other side to make sure it looks good. Also, siphoning the detritus. What about cutting an access hole and covering it with a metal print on a hinge?

 

I’d suggest finding a way to raise and lower the light racks easily. On my 300 I can barely get my arm in the tank due to having to mount the radions so low.

 

 

 

Spares:

 

Do you have a spare of those fancy Abyzz pumps? I remember JF was telling me he got rid of all his high-end bubbleking skimmers because a pump broke and a replacement had a long cost and lead time. I know they’re expensive, but the return pump is probably the most important piece of hardware on the entire system. I believe you’re using the Abyzz because you need the head pressure to push up to the next floor? If one fails and you don’t have a backup it may take a while to get one, and you may not be able to find a temporary pump locally that can push that amount of flow up to the next floor.

 

 

 

CO2:

 

I worry about CO2 build up and low pH with the tank room and filter room being closed off. I know you sent back the 8000 skimmer and got a 6000. Honestly, I didn’t hate the oversized skimmer for CO2 rejection like you suggested in an earlier post. Do you plan to plumb the 6000 air intake to the outdoors? Roughly speaking this will raise pH by 0.1 in my experience. I run mine through a large carbon block (the type they use for growing pot indoors) just in case something nasty is in the air.

 

 

 

I monitor CO2 using a 5V CO2 sensor and a PM2 module. I’m in a ~1400 sq ft basement and just me being down there will cause CO2 to go up. I pump in (through a carbon block) and exhaust a lot of fresh air for the purpose of temp/humidity control and to keep CO2 from accumulating too high. I think it has a significant impact. Perhaps you could leverage that window for some fresh air exchange?

 

 

 

Ok, that’s all I have for now. I see so many things that I think you’re doing great with and this build is going to turn out exceptionally without a doubt. But rather than just post a bunch of comments agreeing with what you’re already doing I wanted to focus on feedback based on my firsthand experiences and things I would have done differently in my reefing career. Hopefully it’s helpful!

 

thank you for this and I will reply as soon as I can digest and process. 

[YHSublime]

What a monster. Just an absolute unit. 

[AlanM]

I love that the line of 5 bulkheads next to the filter mat roller is not permanently attached.  It's a great idea to keep things contained and clean while allowing for easy maintenance.

[monkiboy]

sump is done and being prepped for shipment...

 

[monkiboy]

On 5/27/2022 at 8:46 PM, AlanM said:

I love that the line of 5 bulkheads next to the filter mat roller is not permanently attached.  It's a great idea to keep things contained and clean while allowing for easy maintenance.

trying to think to things for max efficiency and ease. 

[howaboutme]

Exciting! Those air bags look like ice. Just need some cold brews inside and you'll be all set!

[RW09903]

That's a massive sump! Are you planning on additional nutrition control aside from the roller mat?

[monkiboy]

48 minutes ago, RW09903 said:

That's a massive sump! Are you planning on additional nutrition control aside from the roller mat?

water changes. large skimmer. should do it. we shall see. lots of options, as you know my friend. a fancy beta algae scrubber is supposed to arrive in a few weeks for testing but I don't think I'll need it.

[monkiboy]

sump arrived safely with a few surprises and toys inside I wasn't expecting! more to come...

 

[YHSublime]

Next house you’ll have to build a loading dock! 

[DFR]

Looks like a well planned system and I like the depth of integration into the house.  Following along!

[monkiboy]

1 hour ago, DFR said:

Looks like a well planned system and I like the depth of integration into the house.  Following along!

thank you

[YHSublime]

So have you taken the sump out of the crate yet?! 

[RW09903]

3 hours ago, YHSublime said:

So have you taken the sump out of the crate yet?! 

Second that!

[monkiboy]

5 hours ago, YHSublime said:

So have you taken the sump out of the crate yet?! 

 

1 hour ago, RW09903 said:

Second that!

 

Have not taken it out of the crate. Very eager to do so and get it all plumbed but really really strapped for time with the kids and several new hurdles we’ve hit as a family. Just letting the biome build in tank a few different ways and taking the opportunity to do things VERY slowly and exercise patience to do things right the first time hopefully.