Help me plan a fish room project!

[Steve G]

Friends,

I have been been out of the hobby for several years, but looking to get back in. My goal is to plan a new in-wall tank with fish room behind it. I would love to get advice and suggestions from this community. It would be awesome to have some knowledgeable club members visit my house (in Takoma DC) to look at the space and help me plan. I can post some dimensions and pictures of the space here later tonight. Thinking about 175 gallon. I will need a lot of automation because I travel for work. Thanks in advance.

 

Steve

[Steve G]

Attached photos show the viewing room and work room perspectives. Ideas? Thoughts?

 

the work room already has a window for ventilation and tile floor. I’d like to add a floor drain but it might require drilling into the foundation. 
 

I am also thinking of building a custom non-rectangular tank and stand so I can build closer to the edge of the room and still be able to enter the work room.

 

I have to figure out what to do about the door to the work room. Maybe a sliding door or pocket door. the current door opens in and would hit the tank/stand. There isn’t a lot of room for it to swing out but that’s a possibility. 

[Jon Lazar]

I'd avoid an odd-shaped tank if possible.

 

I'd definitely want a deep sink in the tank room.  If you can tie it into the kitchenette drain and vent lines, that would be best.  But I'd still install a sink even if it means tearing up the floor.  While you're at it you can add a floor drain.

 

You mentioned changing the door to a pocket door, or changing it to open out.  You could also move the hinges to the opposite jamb if that helps.  Is there a second entrance into the tank room, or is that door a closet?

 

You could also remove the kitchen bar and put the tank there.  You could move the walls into the viewing room so that it's still an in-wall tank.  That wouldn't be my first choice, but it's an option.

[Sharkey18]

Totally following along! I am planning a major upgrade to my system a complete re-do of the fish room. 

 

[Steve G]

On the topic of what to put in the work room here is what I have in mind. Looking for ideas on what I am forgetting:
- sump and refugium ~55gal
- q tank ~20 gal
- saltwater mixing barrel
- freshwater reservoir plumbed to smaller auto topoff plumbed to sump
- RODI set up to service the two barrels
- deep sink
- workbench and lots of wall shelving
- floor drain (floor is tile)
- dorm fridge for fish food
- two stools for work bench
- ladder/catwalk for getting elevated above tank to reach in and service tank and lights.


Planning a 150g in wall project.

[sethsolomon]

having a small dedicated washing machine for washing fish towels and filter socks would be a good idea.

[DFR]

Sounds like you are prepared for major renovation of that room/area.  If you are, the end product would be worth it.
 

I like everyone’s ideas but one thing to add is the electrical.  Check the breaker box to see if there is any space for additions.  If there is that’ll help out a lot as you can put the tank on it’s own dedicated breaker(s).  Also, before proceeding, is the wall the tank going “into“ load bearing?  I would guess it isn’t based on the pics but double check as it would add a bit more planning if it is.

[smokythemattman@gmail.com]

On 12/26/2019 at 5:38 PM, sethsolomon said:

having a small dedicated washing machine for washing fish towels and filter socks would be a good idea.

Ive seen people use a like 50$ sock washing machine. I wish I had the link. I dont use filter socks anymore but I almost bought one for that purpose. 

[Steve G]

I don't plan to use filter socks so not going to do the washing machine. I do have the electrical panel in the same room, so I will add a dedicated circuit. Planning a floor drain and PVC molding for the walls, all for flood protection. The current floor is ceramic tile. May have to rip some of that up to build a floor sump or channel in the slab to build drainage pipe.

 

Wonder what else I'm missing, but if nothing else, next step is to find a tank and start assembling equipment...

 

 

[brianisoutside]

The door casing can be pulled out and reinstalled the other direction to open out. Other than time and shims that would be practically free.
Why do you want a floor drain? You could plumb into that existing kitchenette drain.


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[davelin315]

Might need to move other electrical?  That oven is probably wired through the wall and I see you are removing the one plug but I would be concerned about electrical wiring running below the tank wall.

 

Given the space behind the tank you have lots of options so that is good.  Nothing wrong with an in wall tank that has “remote” plumbing and a sump against a different wall.  Make it as easy to avoid clutter as you can and provide yourself with as much open space as possible.  Open sumps with nothing above them are far easier to work with than ones under tanks.

[Jon Lazar]

3 hours ago, davelin315 said:

Might need to move other electrical?  That oven is probably wired through the wall and I see you are removing the one plug but I would be concerned about electrical wiring running below the tank wall.

 

Another option is to run new circuits from your breaker box.  You've got an HVAC soffit right above the breaker box.  It will be (relatively) easy to run the wires through the soffit to the tank wall.

[scott711]

If you look back at my build, I took down a load bearing wall in between my garage and living room.  I took over part of the garage.  Definitely think about a sink (hot/cold water), drain, air exchange (especially if it is near an electrical box).  I have a separate 50 amp circuit that was in the garage and made that a sub panel with 5 different circuits around the tank.  Definitely have dedicated power on separate circuits for the tank.  As I mentioned, ventilation is important because of the saltwater humidity.  I have an A/C unit in their for the summer months and it is also a fan/dehumidifier.  Have a lot of storage. I also have 2 large holding tanks for salt and fresh water. Definitely plan for wire management.  

[Steve G]

On 1/12/2020 at 9:12 PM, brianisoutside said:

The door casing can be pulled out and reinstalled the other direction to open out. Other than time and shims that would be practically free.
Why do you want a floor drain? You could plumb into that existing kitchenette drain.


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Floor drain is for spills and floods on the floor. I will install a laundry sink tied into the bathroom drain for routine stuff.

 

 

On 1/13/2020 at 1:16 PM, davelin315 said:

Might need to move other electrical?  That oven is probably wired through the wall and I see you are removing the one plug but I would be concerned about electrical wiring running below the tank wall.

 

Given the space behind the tank you have lots of options so that is good.  Nothing wrong with an in wall tank that has “remote” plumbing and a sump against a different wall.  Make it as easy to avoid clutter as you can and provide yourself with as much open space as possible.  Open sumps with nothing above them are far easier to work with than ones under tanks.

 

I am working with some contractors I trust and they looked at it and said they can move all the wiring from the existing wall as needed.  I will probably leave the sump under the tank because I like it there and want to have the rest of the workroom to work on other stuff (water mixing, Quarantine, frags, etc.)

 

 

On 1/13/2020 at 4:44 PM, Jon Lazar said:

 

Another option is to run new circuits from your breaker box.  You've got an HVAC soffit right above the breaker box.  It will be (relatively) easy to run the wires through the soffit to the tank wall.

 

Yes, that was an attractive feature of the house. We came to the open house and I was like "That's not a guest room, it's a fish room! Electrical! Right there! And a window!"

 

 

31 minutes ago, scott711 said:

If you look back at my build, I took down a load bearing wall in between my garage and living room.  I took over part of the garage.  Definitely think about a sink (hot/cold water), drain, air exchange (especially if it is near an electrical box).  I have a separate 50 amp circuit that was in the garage and made that a sub panel with 5 different circuits around the tank.  Definitely have dedicated power on separate circuits for the tank.  As I mentioned, ventilation is important because of the saltwater humidity.  I have an A/C unit in their for the summer months and it is also a fan/dehumidifier.  Have a lot of storage. I also have 2 large holding tanks for salt and fresh water. Definitely plan for wire management.  

 

Scott, great to see you here! You helped me drill my last tank many years ago. That was a nail-biter but it worked great. Good times! Your build, and the fact that you're still married, is an inspiration! 

 

I happen to have a perfect portable A/C unit for that room, but there is also an A/C (and heating) vent and a decent sized window, so I have good ventilation options.

 

If there are good ways to estimate electrical needs, like calculators or planners, let me know. I figure lights, A/C, fridge/freezer, chiller, and pumps would draw the most power. Then you have fans, powerheads, smaller pumps for mixing and reactors. What else?

 

What size should I go for for salt and fresh water holding tanks? Others have recommended 100gal each. Sounds like a lot.

 

Next big step for me is selecting a tank builder. I have quotes from Glasscages (cheapest), Miracles, and Coast to Coast. I'm trying to figure out what the real quality differences are, if any, between these vendors.

 

 

 

[Steve G]

Updated plan. Now going with 240 gallon display corner in wall. Moving door to where closet is. Tank will be centered over the bar with entrance to fish room to the left of the bar (while facing the tank).




Planning a 150g in wall project.

[Steve G]

I need to update my signature!

[Steve G]

Cardboard mockup of tank successfully moved through door and down stairs.


Planning a 150g in wall project.

[Steve G]

Here is my latest thinking on aquascaping. This tank will be viewable on two sides. My goal is to have a very mixed fish/corals tank, with corals serving as backdrop, not main feature. I really want interesting inverts and active fish. My current thinking on aquascape is to really use the 30" front to back so there is depth of field, with overlapping bommies sloping down toward the center (as viewed from the front), with the side view being the way to peek into the channels formed by this structure. I may leave more space between the overflow (left) and rock island than is shown.

 

Any feedback?

 

[Jon Lazar]

Looks like this build is really developing nicely.  Great idea on creating a cardboard mock-up of the tank to ensure you can get it into place!  I like the extra deep tank dimension, and how you're exploiting that depth.  A different side view is also a great feature.

 

I like the rock layout from the top and your approach of graphing it out is excellent.  For every top view, I would also draw a corresponding front view since that's what you'll actually see 99% of the time.  IMO, following the rule of thirds will create a very pleasing layout.  I also suspect that the front-right bommie will feel overwhelming because it's so large and so close.

[scott711]

 

On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2020 at 10:21 PM, Steve G said:

Scott, great to see you here! You helped me drill my last tank many years ago. That was a nail-biter but it worked great. Good times! Your build, and the fact that you're still married, is an inspiration! 

 

I happen to have a perfect portable A/C unit for that room, but there is also an A/C (and heating) vent and a decent sized window, so I have good ventilation options.

 

If there are good ways to estimate electrical needs, like calculators or planners, let me know. I figure lights, A/C, fridge/freezer, chiller, and pumps would draw the most power. Then you have fans, powerheads, smaller pumps for mixing and reactors. What else?

 

What size should I go for for salt and fresh water holding tanks? Others have recommended 100gal each. Sounds like a lot.

 

Next big step for me is selecting a tank builder. I have quotes from Glasscages (cheapest), Miracles, and Coast to Coast. I'm trying to figure out what the real quality differences are, if any, between these vendors.

 

 

 

Steve,

 

I think I remember.  Yeap still married. It was a no win situation for her, but I keep everything in my garage so there are no water issues.  So she couldn't be more happier.

 

I got two 100 gallon water tanks.  They come in different sizes and shapes. You can do smaller, but I would probably stick with the 100's. 

 

I don't know of any good sources to estimate electrical need.  I just installed a sub panel and a 50 Amp breaker split into individual dedicated gfci breakers in the sub panel.   I also have solar which helps offset some of my aquarium power.

 

For the tank I got mine from AGE in Texas.  Very solid build.

Ventilation is important as anything metal in the room will eventually rust. 

[Steve G]

This what I plan to use for a sump. It’s a used 100 gallon reef ready acrylic tank. I’ll cap the bulkheads and clean up the coralline (which my 8 year old daughter calls coral vomit). Question is whether I can/should trim the euro bracing to get better access.

[davelin315]

I would not trim the bracing if you plan on filling it more than halfway.  It is structural but shouldn't matter if there is reduced stress on it.  That said, if power goes out and it fills up then not a great idea to have trimmed eurobracing as the fluctuating water level can cause issues that will compound over time.  If you are talking about trimming around the edges I would not recommend doing that at all.  Drilling holes through the bracing itself will not significantly reduce any structural support it gives, though, so you could certainly modify that way.

 

Might also be nice to have the bracing there in the middle as well to attach things to as needed (e.g. you could attach filter socks to it).  Nice thing about a sump like this with significant size is you could just drop buckets or containers in there for items that need a constant water level, for example you could put a deep tray in for your skimmer and let water flow into that first before draining out into the rest of the tank, you could cap the overflow holes and put heaters in there, and you could attach media reactors to the center brace and run hoses down through them for easy access.

[linkfalcon]

Always run more power then u think u will need


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[Steve G]

Always run more power then u think u will need


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Thanks for tip. Can you say more about this? The electrical panel is already located in my proposed fish room. Is there a checklist I can use to plan electrical requirements?

Here’s what I can think of. What am I missing? Do I just add up the wattage? Is there a formula for calculating amperage needed?

Lights
Return pump
Skimmer
Powerheads
Heaters
Dosing pumps
Saltwater mixing pump
Sump lighting
Reactor pumps
Controller
Fridge (may keep in different room)
Chiller (I want to avoid needing one)

[Origami]

Back to your (Jan 14) floor plan for a second: Are you concerned that the small space between the utility closet and the new door is going to be (regrettably)  limiting if you need to move something big/long into the fish-room space? You might have better access just leaving the door opening where it is and flipping it around (i.e. installing another left-hand door) to where it opens outward.

 

I have six circuits in my fish-room just so it's easy to expand. I don't use anywhere near the capacity of any one circuit, though. My breaker panel, though, is on the opposite end of the house.

 

One thing I'd look into in your situation is whether or not having your breaker panel in the potentially high-humidity (i.e. damp) environment of a fish-room is advisable or code-compliant. Any condensation in the panel will create a hazardous situation. Corrosion, too, may be come a factor. This can be mitigated with humidity control, but I don't know what you have planned for that.