ICP Test Results are in...

[madweazl]

13 hours ago, BtmDweller said:

Great post!! No black sand it is.

 

I've been using the Nature's Ocean Bioactive black sand without issue for two and a half years now (acropora dominant system) and I haven't had any issues with metals in the past (I've had three or four ICP analysis' performed). 

[A.ocellaris]

4 hours ago, Origami said:

Good luck today!

 

Mission completed! I think I was able to change 98% of the water. I still have fresh salt water left sincr the container was bigger than my tank. Can i save it for next week in a bucket with a lid? 

 

 

[A.ocellaris]

2 hours ago, madweazl said:

 

I've been using the Nature's Ocean Bioactive black sand without issue for two and a half years now (acropora dominant system) and I haven't had any issues with metals in the past (I've had three or four ICP analysis' performed). 

 

People only report issues with the Caribsea Tahitian sand. Thats the one I had. 

[Origami]

 
Mission completed! I think I was able to change 98% of the water. I still have fresh salt water left sincr the container was bigger than my tank. Can i save it for next week in a bucket with a lid? 
 
 

Congratulations, and yes, you can.

[A.ocellaris]

Quick update!!

 

Things look better! Better polyp extension and coloration of sps and softies. I bought a chromis and he’s been alive for more than 48 hours (they didnt last a day in my tank).

 

i hope to send a new ICP test next week or is it too early? I added a poly filter today to see if it catches something. 

 

 

[Origami]

Excellent news!

 

They're expensive, but if you can run an ICP now and another in a a couple of weeks, you can see if the metals have been and remain eliminated. As long as the polyfilter is in place, I wouldn't do the ICP. Wait until you remove it since you'll only be using it temporarily. (Hopefully it won't turn up any more evidence of metals.)

 

Thank you for the update.

[YHSublime]

Also, tank is still young, don't try and catch up all at once if the problem is solved. 

[A.ocellaris]

23 hours ago, YHSublime said:

Also, tank is still young, don't try and catch up all at once if the problem is solved. 

 

 

Definitely! The green Chromis is still alive .  

[AlanM]

I got results back from the guy at work doing neutron activation analysis.  He estimates that the sand has about 300ppm vanadium.  He was surprised how much it had.  He said it had more than he'd ever seen in anything that wasn't a vanadium standard.  He didn't do the experiment looking for nickel, but he said he wouldn't be surprised if it also was very high in nickel. 

 

We could do a solubility experiment where we'd make two containers of saltwater, put sand in one, leave them for a couple of weeks, and then draw some water out of both and irradiate them to see if the one with sand is much higher in V, but I don't think it's necessary.

 

It's enough info to say that this sand should definitely not be used in aquariums.  I don't know how much vanadium aragonite has in it, but I suspect much less than 300ppm.

[ReefdUp]

Ok, this is such a cool thread... Obviously I'm sorry to hear about your ordeal, but it sounds like all is mostly resolved. Yay! The engineer in me was totally geeking out... love me some metals analysis. Great job everyone!

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[A.ocellaris]

On 1/29/2019 at 10:39 AM, AlanM said:

I got results back from the guy at work doing neutron activation analysis.  He estimates that the sand has about 300ppm vanadium.  He was surprised how much it had.  He said it had more than he'd ever seen in anything that wasn't a vanadium standard.  He didn't do the experiment looking for nickel, but he said he wouldn't be surprised if it also was very high in nickel. 

 

We could do a solubility experiment where we'd make two containers of saltwater, put sand in one, leave them for a couple of weeks, and then draw some water out of both and irradiate them to see if the one with sand is much higher in V, but I don't think it's necessary.

 

It's enough info to say that this sand should definitely not be used in aquariums.  I don't know how much vanadium aragonite has in it, but I suspect much less than 300ppm.

 

I knew it!!! I had this feeling that the sand was causing me all the trouble. Thank you and your friend for taking time to analyze the sand and I hope this helps other members to stay away from this sand (Tahitian Moon). I sent another ICP test and Vanadium and Nickel went down drastically.

 

Thank you!

[Origami]

59 minutes ago, A.ocellaris said:

 

I knew it!!! I had this feeling that the sand was causing me all the trouble. Thank you and your friend for taking time to analyze the sand and I hope this helps other members to stay away from this sand (Tahitian Moon). I sent another ICP test and Vanadium and Nickel went down drastically.

 

I think that we all felt pretty good about that conclusion when things quickly got better after you removed the sand. It's pretty cool that we've added more data points to the issue for other hobbyists to benefit from. Between this thread, the youtube video, and the thread over at R2R, the wider community can benefit from your experience and from the extra scientific data that Alan's colleague was able to provide.

 

[A.ocellaris]

Here’s my tank after tahitian moon sand lol.

 

 

 

 

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[AlanM]

That's really nice!  I'm glad it seems to have recovered.

[Origami]

On 12/3/2018 at 10:13 AM, A.ocellaris said:

Thank you all for your advise and help on this issue. It's been 8 long months with many disappointing events with this tank. I've had tanks in the past, but this one is the worst and I think it was just the sand... It is just crazy...

 

Thanks Origami, the thread is very very similar to my situation. I reached out to CaribSea and they discontinued the product, but it looks like that customer can still find it in the LFS. 

 

Update:

 

I guess this will be my last attempt to fix this tank, if not, I'll have to take it down. It's just too much money already spent. I removed 99.99% of the sand and did a 20% WC with a Tropic Marine Pro Reef salt to make sure I dont add extra stuff. I hope to continue changing 20% every 5 days hoping to lower those metal levels. Will this ever be resolved? Who knows... Now everything start to make sense... no hermits alive, no shrimps, fish getting skin sores and dying, SPS going RTN, LPS losing polyps/expansion, Favias losing color/polyps. On the other side, Anemones are doing well.

 

I am not sure how to do 100% WC, I only have a small RODI filter.

 

 

>>>>>>> Nice save!  <<<<<<<

 

 

19 hours ago, A.ocellaris said:

Here’s my tank after tahitian moon sand lol.

 

 

 

 

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[AlanM]

Was just thinking about this tank today and your sand ordeal.  Is it still going and do you have any more pics?  Those last few were great.  Looks like it must have so much movement.

[A.ocellaris]

Was just thinking about this tank today and your sand ordeal.  Is it still going and do you have any more pics?  Those last few were great.  Looks like it must have so much movement.

Hi Alan!

It has been a bumpy ride with this tank . I recently got another ICP test back and I was happy to see that Vanadium is now around 6ppm (it was in the hundreds).

Early this year tank crashed while I was traveling from work and lost many corals. The ones that survived are now slowly comimg back and coloring up nicely.






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[DFR]

Good to hear that your corals are recovering nicely! Is the Vanadium concentrations correct? 6ppm would be 6000ug/L which are higher than your previous test.  But if it is 6ug/L (.006ppm) that would be more of a normal value.

[A.ocellaris]

Good to hear that your corals are recovering nicely! Is the Vanadium concentrations correct? 6ppm would be 6000ug/L which are higher than your previous test.  But if it is 6ug/L (.006ppm) that would be more of a normal value.

Ha! My bad. Last ICP test showed 6.04 µg/l for Vanadium (from 495 µg/l).


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[DFR]

Ok, that value is pretty normal.  How do you like the system without sand (high metals aside)?