Live Aquaria salt

[AlanM]

Look what just arrived.  I got a sample bag to try because DFS was giving a $25 gift cert if you bought a $25 bag of salt with free shipping.  

 

 

Mixes at:

 

[FirstContact]

I picked up 2. Arrived today also. Now I have to spend $50 in the next month! I like the fact that they say there’s no residue. I might switch over from Instant Ocean.

[linkfalcon]

Let us know how it looks mixed and water test it please

 

 

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[zygote2k]

But does it have all of the major and minor trace elements and will it pass the Triton test?

If no no any of the above, then theres no point in using it.

[madweazl]

Mine arrived as well and I'm planning on sending a sample off to Triton when I mix some up for the next water change. 

[Der ABT]

But does it have all of the major and minor trace elements and will it pass the Triton test?

If no no any of the above, then theres no point in using it.

But it says professional on the bag....hehe

 

Got mine as well, thanks for sharing the link...hopefully you post the tests and it passes....otherwise it will just be a filler for the instant ocean

[gmerek2]

I looked at the price for the larger ones. Not too bad! I like that they openly state the parameters. I'll buy it if everything checks out. I will be surprised if there is no residue with the calcium that high.

 

 

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[Viktoriia]

So i need salt and i cannot find any sales on Reef Crystals. Thinking of making the leap to try this live aquaria brand. I feel like it may be too soon since it just came out. i am having good results with Reef Crystal slow and steady and do not want to jinx it. Is saving $10 worth it probably not. I may have answered my own question and just buy reef crystals.

 

In any case has anyone heard of any good salt sales for Reef Crystals?

[madweazl]

I mixed some up for a water change tomorrow. It doesn't dissolve as quickly or effortlessly as Reef Crystal however, after 11 minutes of mixing, it was crystal clear. I mixed the salt in five gallon buckets and it took 2.5 cups of salt to hit 35ppt where it took three cups with Reef Crystals. 

 

Alk - 9.5 (Hanna) 9.3 (Salifert)

Ca - 520 (Salifert)

Mg - 1500 (Salifert)

 

I have a Triton test kit on hand that I was going to send in with the fresh mixed salt but after my initial tests, I don't think there is any reason to follow through since this isn't the salt for me. 

Edited October 10, 2017 by madweazl

[FirstContact]

Wow, 520 Ca is a lot higher than advertised. Anybody have any residue issues?

[WheresTheReef]

Did you mix the bag to avoid settling of the salt mix?

[AlanM]

I mixed some up for a water change tomorrow. It doesn't dissolve as quickly or effortlessly as Reef Crystal however, after 11 minutes of mixing, it was crystal clear. I mixed the salt in five gallon buckets and it took 2.5 cups of salt to hit 35ppt where it took three cups with Reef Crystals. 

 

Alk - 9.5 (Hanna) 9.3 (Salifert)

Ca - 520 (Salifert)

Mg - 1500 (Salifert)

 

I have a Triton test kit on hand that I was going to send in with the fresh mixed salt but after my initial tests, I don't think there is any reason to follow through since this isn't the salt for me. 

 

That's much higher Ca and Mg than advertised and on the high end of the alk range.  I'd almost think you overshot the 35ppt.  Are you sure about the specific gravity?

[madweazl]

That's much higher Ca and Mg than advertised and on the high end of the alk range.  I'd almost think you overshot the 35ppt.  Are you sure about the specific gravity?

Calibrated the refractometer just prior to mixing the water with 35ppt fluid. Same as I do with every batch of salt I mix. Did yours come out different? 

[madweazl]

Did you mix the bag to avoid settling of the salt mix?

Yes, including dumping some on the carpet because the ziplock on the bag isn't very strong LOL. 

Edited October 10, 2017 by madweazl

[AlanM]

Calibrated the refractometer just prior to mixing the water with 35ppt fluid. Same as I do with every batch of salt I mix. Did yours come out different? 

 

I haven't mixed mine yet.  Finishing this box of IO first and then was going to start using it for water changes after cleaning out my mixing can thoroughly or just buying a new one. The brown scale on the bottom doesn't really come off easily.  I know it's supposed to be harmless, but whatever it is, it doesn't even really react to HCl very quickly.

 

I'm surprised it is so far off the quoted values.  I would probably be ok using it, even though it's way off what I run my tank at.  I do about 10 gal out of 200 total gallons per week, so a 5% change won't bump the numbers that much.

[madweazl]

I haven't mixed mine yet.  Finishing this box of IO first and then was going to start using it for water changes after cleaning out my mixing can thoroughly or just buying a new one. The brown scale on the bottom doesn't really come off easily.  I know it's supposed to be harmless, but whatever it is, it doesn't even really react to HCl very quickly.

 

I'm surprised it is so far off the quoted values.  I would probably be ok using it, even though it's way off what I run my tank at.  I do about 10 gal out of 200 total gallons per week, so a 5% change won't bump the numbers that much.

I'll test again when I get home from work tomorrow. I had a Coralife hydrometer in a drawer that I just checked it with at 1.028 and the refractometer was 1.027 so the two devices are pretty close to one another (difference from earlier due to evap). 

Edited October 11, 2017 by madweazl

[AlanM]

OK.  If it is 1.028 instead of 1.026 that's an 8% difference in salinity but still not enough to get from 450 to 520 calcium.

[Viktoriia]

I read on Reef 2 Reef that the live aquaria salt may be Fritz RPM repackaged. And in reading on Fritz there are complaints on salt batches varying from batch to batch. Not sure this is true but now curious who live aquaria is sourcing from or if they are producing

[madweazl]

OK.  If it is 1.028 instead of 1.026 that's an 8% difference in salinity but still not enough to get from 450 to 520 calcium.

It was 1.026 when I tested everything. I was just checking the refractometer results with the hydrometer to see if there was a large variation yesterday evening. 

Edited October 11, 2017 by madweazl

[Origami]

Calibrated the refractometer just prior to mixing the water with 35ppt fluid. Same as I do with every batch of salt I mix. Did yours come out different? 

 

 

Crazy question, but is the calibration fluid that you're using specifically designed for refractometers? A short while ago, I had some (Pinpoint brand) calibration fluid on the shelf that I used and, later on, noted that it was an conductivity reference. (Note to self: Pay close attention to those labels!) The refraction index on it was fairly high (matching to something like 40 PPT versus my expected 35 PPT as I recall) and would have resulted in mixing new water up to excessively high levels. This is, in fact, what BRS sells. Look closely at the description and the label and you'll see that it's a 53.0 mS calibration fluid. Thus, it's a designed to be a conductivity reference. I realize, however, that other sites market it as a refractometer reference, too. However, my bottle was way off the mark in this regard.

 

The guy in this R2R thread got a similar result from his Pinpoint solution, too. He got 38 PPT rather than the expected 35 PPT.  So my experience is not unique, I guess.

 

In my case, a 40 PPT salinity for a presumed 35 PPT reference is an error of 14% which is right in line with the percentage error in the high numbers you're measuring for this LA salt.

 

 

BRS Description:

PINPOINT Salinity Calibration Fluid is 53.0 mS standardized fluid for calibrating PINPOINT Salinity Monitors as well as refractometers. PINPOINT Salinity Calibration Fluid calibrates to sg 1.026 or 35ppt.

 

^^This description, in my experience, is inaccurate as it says it can be used in refractometers. 

 

NOTE: I've sent a question in to American Marine to ask them this specific question about this product's utility to calibrate refractometers just in case I had a bad reference. However, because of my experience and the guy's at R2R, I'm thinking that it may not be a reliable standard.

 

Now, if you want a quick way to double check your calibration standard, look at this 2004 article from Randy Holmes-Farley on a DIY salinity calibration standard. About halfway down, you'll find a recipe that relies on using a 2-liter Coke bottle (the brand is important because he uses the bottle as a volume reference and a differently shaped bottle may not hold the expected (and needed) volume of water.) I'll repeat his recipe here for convenience:

 

1. Measure ¼ cup of Morton's Iodized Salt (about 73.1 g)

2. Add 1 teaspoon of salt (making about 79.3 g total salt)

3. Measure the full volume of a plastic 2-L Coke or Diet Coke bottle filled with purified freshwater (about 2104.4 g)

4. Dissolve the total salt (79.3 g) in the total water volume (2104 g) to make an approximately 3.65 weight percent solution of NaCl. The volume of this solution will be slightly larger than the Coke bottle, so dissolve it in another container.

 

[[Notice added post-publication: the standards described here that use Coke bottles are subject to variation in the volume of a 2-L Coke bottle. It has recently come to my attention that such 2-L bottles can vary in total volume, and that this can lead to at least a 1 ppt error in the salinity of the standards matched to seawater salinity of 35 ppt. Standards made with accurate measurements of salt and water should still accurately match 35 ppt.]]

 

 

So, my recommendation would be to check the accuracy of your calibration fluid to see if that's the reason that you're seeing these higher than expected numbers. It's possible that, if your calibration fluid was way off (by as much as mine was), it may be the source of the high measurements. 

[madweazl]

Interesting; The stuff I'm using states it's for a refractometer at 35ppt, 53mS, with a refractive index of 1.3394 @77° (currently 75.5°). The directions on the opposite side of the bottle are for refractometers only. I waited 45 seconds after placing the solution on the prism before checking as indicated in the instructions on the bottle. 

 

 

It has been about 27 hours since I mixed the water. I topped off the buckets with fresh water to bring them back to 1.026 (fresh calibration on the refractometer) and then checked them with the Coralife hydrometer (swing arm type) and got 1.027. New bottle of alkalinity reagent (HI772S) arrived today so I grabbed it and a new curvette and retested samples from a different bucket than yesterday. 

 

Alk - 9.6 (171)

Ca - 500+ (didn't bother refilling syringe to see exactly how high it was)

Mg - 1560 

 

Last time I sent in a Triton sample I dumped the results into a calculator which indicated a salinity of 35.26 (1.0266) where I had measured 1.025 with the refractometer at the time (pretty sure I calibrated it at the time but that was indicated in my notes) so I don't have much reason to suspect my instruments and/or calibration solution is to blame. 

 

To compound the issues...

 

Samples collected 8 July 

 

My results     Triton

Ca 420          456

Mg 1335        1356

 

Samples collected 11 Aug 

 

My results     Triton

Ca 435          460

Mg 1350       1371

 

I didn't note salinity when I sent the second sample in but plugging the numbers into the calculator it was 35.23 so if nothing else, I'm pretty consistent. Note my results are consistently lower than Triton's analysis. 

Edited October 11, 2017 by madweazl

[Origami]

Maybe it's not the calibration solution, then. You may want to quickly mix up some of the DIY solution just to confirm that you're in the ballpark. If you don't have a Coke bottle, then I think that 1 Tbsp. of salt into 2 cups plus 4 teaspoons of RO/DI or distilled water will put you right at about 35 ppt.

 

It's almost assuredly crazy to ask since it sounds like you're doing it all right, but you're mixing this new salt up in RO/DI or distilled water, right? No worries about extra calcium and (bi)carbonates (hardness) in tap water?

 

Alan, you started this thread. Have you mixed any of this new salt up yet?

[madweazl]

Maybe it's not the calibration solution, then. You may want to quickly mix up some of the DIY solution just to confirm that you're in the ballpark. If you don't have a Coke bottle, then I think that 1 Tbsp. of salt into 2 cups plus 4 teaspoons of RO/DI or distilled water will put you right at about 35 ppt.

 

It's almost assuredly crazy to ask since it sounds like you're doing it all right, but you're mixing this new salt up in RO/DI or distilled water, right? No worries about extra calcium and (bi)carbonates (hardness) in tap water?

 

Alan, you started this thread. Have you mixed any of this new salt up yet?

Yea, RO/DI on two month old cartridges which last at least six months here as our tap is typically only 2 TDS on the input side (occasionally in the 30s for a day or two). I don't have a coke bottle but may pick one up tomorrow. On the recipe above, was that iodized salt and ASW salt mix? 

[Origami]

Yea, RO/DI on two month old cartridges which last at least six months here as our tap is typically only 2 TDS on the input side (occasionally in the 30s for a day or two). I don't have a coke bottle but may pick one up tomorrow. On the recipe above, was that iodized salt and ASW salt mix? 

Regular table salt. Iodized or not. Shouldn't make a difference in the refractive index.

[madweazl]

Regular table salt. Iodized or not. Shouldn't make a difference in the refractive index.

OK, the two different salts confused me (e.g. 1/4 cup iodized and 1 tsp "salt").