Leviathan_XE January 20, 2016 Share January 20, 2016 What wattage inverter should be considered the minimum for powering a circulation pump or heater?? New to all this and just looked up a few on Amazon as soon as I read this thread. I'm not ready at all either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM January 20, 2016 Share January 20, 2016 If you're using those battery powered air pumps that turn on automatically when the wall power stops be sure to test them out before you need them. I have two of them and neither one works how it's supposed to work. If folks in MD need them I got an email from King of Corals that they had them in stock yesterday. Also buy plenty of D batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khh27 January 20, 2016 Share January 20, 2016 What wattage inverter should be considered the minimum for powering a circulation pump or heater?? New to all this and just looked up a few on Amazon as soon as I read this thread. I'm not ready at all either. Biggest one you can buy as most tend to over rate there power factor where they may state it hass 1000w but may only effectively supply 8-900w also the more "free watts" you are not using the better. I.e. you need 130w of power and buy a 150w inverter. This will run hotter and try harder to power and could overheat and shut down and all around be less effective than 130w powered by 300w inverter. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob A January 20, 2016 Share January 20, 2016 Generator for the tanks, blankets for the wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khh27 January 20, 2016 Share January 20, 2016 Generator for the tanks, blankets for the wife.Lol. Some wives might think backwards. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leviathan_XE January 20, 2016 Share January 20, 2016 Biggest one you can buy as most tend to over rate there power factor where they may state it hass 1000w but may only effectively supply 8-900w also the more "free watts" you are not using the better. I.e. you need 130w of power and buy a 150w inverter. This will run hotter and try harder to power and could overheat and shut down and all around be less effective than 130w powered by 300w inverter. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Thank you so much, placing order now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS January 20, 2016 Share January 20, 2016 Ok take this battery. It's 10AH meaning at a discharge rate of 10 amps it'll take 1 hour to fully discarge. Or at 1 amp 10 hours to discarge. For about every 110 watts of ac power it's about 1 amp of current. So theoretically 110 watts worth of stuff will discarge this battery in 10 hours regardless of how many watts it's rated for. Granted this is at constant load meaning 110 watts on for the whole time. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk khh is giving you an accurate, analytical way of calculating energy capacity in a battery. "Watts" are a measure of power. For example, a 100W light bulb consumes 100 Watts. Energy is a measure of power over time. To help make this more clear, that same 100W light bulb will consume twice the energy in 2 hours of operation than in 1 hour of operation. So what you're looking for, on the surface, is the energy capacity of the battery, or Watt-hours (you've probably seen kWhr - same thing, but in 1000's of hours) Take the Amp-Hour capacity of your battery, multiply by the battery voltage and divide by the number of Watts that your load will draw and you'll get the number of hours that the load should be powered. For example, a 12V car battery with a capacity of 10 AH has a theoretical capacity of 12V * 10 AH = 120 VAH or 120 Watt-hours. Neglecting efficiency losses, it can power a 100W light bulb (or heater) for 1.2 hours, or a 50W pump for 2.4 hours. This is just a simplified, theoretical calculation, though. Batteries can be more complex. Power capacity (that is, the ability to deliver a high amperage over time) can change depending upon the chemistry, physical construction of the battery, and the rate of discharge. With an UPS, the additional complexity of battery age, circuit efficiency and design cutoff complicate the problem. You should be able to find run-time curves for your UPS from the manufacturer. Calculate the expected draw from the UPS and use that curve to determine the nominal run time before cutoff. BTW, most home computer UPS units will not typically supply a lot of power to a computer for a long time. KHH and Tom's post have good technical details. I should add that, even after you do the math based on the battery specs, you need to keep in mind that you will lose 50% of the juice from the batteries due to DC-AC circuit conversion inefficiency. I had a wacky project one time dealing with UPS's and learned one interesting fact: Typical computer UPS's are NOT designed to provide power over a long time. Their circuity and batteries can't handle the heat, discharge characteristics and other issues that occur over a longer time period. Computer UPS's are only designed to provide power for 10-20 minutes- long enough to shut down a computer. By buying a bigger UPS with more battery juice, you are getting a UPS that is intended to keep a bigger computer running for the same 10-20 minutes, not a smaller computer running longer. Anyways, sorry to derail this thread. I just thought it would be useful things for people to keep in mind as they ponder options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS January 20, 2016 Share January 20, 2016 Just realized that I never contributed to the specific topic of the thread. Here's my preparation. I have 5 seconds of outage before it kicks in. I think it's the best (and most expensive) insurance I've ever bought. Never needed it in the 4 years we have had it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFishGuy January 20, 2016 Share January 20, 2016 Question about the Power Inverters.. So if i hook this up to my car it will deliver the wattage it is rated for so do some of these units have to be connected directly to the battery? Also the car has to remain on so that the alternator re-charches the battery, correct? Is there a good brand that is reasonably priced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khh27 January 20, 2016 Share January 20, 2016 Question about the Power Inverters.. So if i hook this up to my car it will deliver the wattage it is rated for so do some of these units have to be connected directly to the battery? Also the car has to remain on so that the alternator re-charches the battery, correct? Is there a good brand that is reasonably priced? In order to be max power you need to hook it directly to battery. Some come with like a cigarette lighter hook up. Don't use these because there only rated for like 100w and will burn something up. Your car will need to be on for you battery to stay charged. Note that at idle a car will not keep it charged max so if you do this don't turn it off and run it for any sort of time and try to restart cause it may discarge battery to much to restart. I'm not a inverter guru on good brand or not. I personally have a Stanley 500w inverter and works for what I need to do. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flooddc January 20, 2016 Share January 20, 2016 Just realized that I never contributed to the specific topic of the thread. Here's my preparation. I have 5 seconds of outage before it kicks in. I think it's the best (and most expensive) insurance I've ever bought. Never needed it in the 4 years we have had it.... That's a nice one Dave! do you need it service often? I noticed my neighbor across my street have one and seem like they have it serviced two or 3 times a year. Question about the Power Inverters.. So if i hook this up to my car it will deliver the wattage it is rated for so do some of these units have to be connected directly to the battery? Also the car has to remain on so that the alternator re-charches the battery, correct? Is there a good brand that is reasonably priced? You want the one that hook directly into the car battery. also, car must be running or you will drain your battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flooddc January 20, 2016 Share January 20, 2016 I have a 7500W generator. Currently charging the battery on my generator. Gotta go get some more gas just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime January 20, 2016 Share January 20, 2016 Never needed it in the 4 years we have had it.... Because you said it, this will be the weekend you need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lutz123 January 20, 2016 Share January 20, 2016 Two things - If you get too large of an inverter and are running on a deep cycle battery it will drain your battery faster, right? I was told to get one close to what you anticipate needing, and not to get the biggest one you can afford. I got a 300 watt inverter because I really don't foresee any need for more to power a 75 watt heater and some circulation. Also, I have 2 35AH deep cycle batteries and the 300 watt inverter...but was just told that it's a must to have a fuse between them, and it's not really optional. I got what I was told was the required wire, fuse holder, and 40 amp fuses, but is there a solution that doesn't require splicing? If it's so necessary, why don't they sell a cable with an inline fuse holder that has finished ends? And the wire seems tiny...12 gauge. Is that enough? Another battery guy told me "you could probably get away without a fuse". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS January 20, 2016 Share January 20, 2016 That's a nice one Dave! do you need it service often? I noticed my neighbor across my street have one and seem like they have it serviced two or 3 times a year. Yes, it's a 27KW unit. It's got a 2.4L 4 cylinder engine. I'm told it's a Mitsubishi and the same engine they put in their Eclipse cars. It really is just like a car except it runs once a week for 10 minutes unless there is a problem. People suggest an oil change every 3 months and changing the spark plugs, air filter and coolant every year or so. These are the same people that sell you service plans where, for 4 installments a year of $300 each, they will do all your service. If I had periodic outages I might bite but I can't believe a car that runs 10 minutes a week using SYNTHETIC oil needs an oil change every 3 months (130 minutes of engine time). I have refused to pay $300 for an oil change for 4 years. I just change it myself with a box of Mobile 1 on sale from Costco, a $5 oil filter from Autozone and $5 air filter from Amazon. Now 3 months ago I did think it would make sense to have someone come out and deal with a bigger service call. Things like gaping the plugs, changing the coolant, and whatever else needs to get done beyond a simple oil change (kinda like a 30K tune up for your car, although I have ~30 hours on this thing). So I agreed to have a $500 one time service call instead of the annual plan. The guy comes out, spends 10 minutes wiping the dust/dirt off the outside, changes the oil and calls it a day. I asked- what about the electrical load test (oh, can't do that in the rain), what about gaping the plugs and changing the coolant (oh these things are build like a tank and don't need that). Needless to day, I was pretty annoyed. My point with the above is that these things are basically cars and can be treated as such. The service you are paying for is a glorified house call from Jiffy Lube. Yes there are some electrical things to consider but with electricity, the only thing moving are electrons so there isn't much to maintain. Because you said it, this will be the weekend you need it. Heh, we shall see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dread240 January 21, 2016 Share January 21, 2016 LOL, Dave those things are way below my normal scope of work but if you really need someone to give it a good once over I'd do it. My systems are normally anywhere from 5 to 30 generators in parallel (all like 70+ liter capacity engines too) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave w January 21, 2016 Share January 21, 2016 DaveS, It would be easiest if everyone in WAMAS just brought our tanks over to your house to plug into that amazing generator! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flooddc January 21, 2016 Share January 21, 2016 Wow! That's a lot of $$ for maintaince alone! I thought about investing in a small one for my home but wasn't sure on maintain cost. That's insane. Why does it need oil change 3-4 times a year! I changed my vehicle oil once a year or ever 10k miles. I suppose if you're handy enough you can maintain that yourself and save some money. I am not mechanically handy, so I'll definitely get chopped on maintenance if I get one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS January 21, 2016 Share January 21, 2016 LOL, Dave those things are way below my normal scope of work but if you really need someone to give it a good once over I'd do it. My systems are normally anywhere from 5 to 30 generators in parallel (all like 70+ liter capacity engines too) Wow, now those are some serious systems that I'm sure need serious maintenance consideration. I hope I don't give the wrong impression- generators need maintenance. I'm sure the kind of specialized systems you are talking about require highly specialized skills that are (and should be) expensive. My main beef is with the idea of charging high dollars for COMMON activities because they are on systems that appear specialized to the uninformed. Basically capitalizing on people's ignorance and fear. First world problems I guess... DaveS, It would be easiest if everyone in WAMAS just brought our tanks over to your house to plug into that amazing generator! I dunno, sounds like dread knows of some places which would be better suited to handle things. Wow! That's a lot of $$ for maintaince alone! I thought about investing in a small one for my home but wasn't sure on maintain cost. That's insane. Why does it need oil change 3-4 times a year! I changed my vehicle oil once a year or ever 10k miles. I suppose if you're handy enough you can maintain that yourself and save some money. I am not mechanically handy, so I'll definitely get chopped on maintenance if I get one. I don't know they do NEED oil changes that often. The service guys just say so but.... Honestly, remembering to take the oil to the local garage is probably harder than the oil change. Find the oil hose, unscrew a nut, drain oil out, screw nut back on. Find oil filter, unscrew, wipe some oil on the new filter's O-ring, screw it back on. Pour in new oil, run 5 minutes, check oil levels. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dread240 January 21, 2016 Share January 21, 2016 (edited) Wow, now those are some serious systems that I'm sure need serious maintenance consideration. I hope I don't give the wrong impression- generators need maintenance. I'm sure the kind of specialized systems you are talking about require highly specialized skills that are (and should be) expensive. My main beef is with the idea of charging high dollars for COMMON activities because they are on systems that appear specialized to the uninformed. Basically capitalizing on people's ignorance and fear. First world problems I guess... I dunno, sounds like dread knows of some places which would be better suited to handle things. I don't know they do NEED oil changes that often. The service guys just say so but.... Honestly, remembering to take the oil to the local garage is probably harder than the oil change. Find the oil hose, unscrew a nut, drain oil out, screw nut back on. Find oil filter, unscrew, wipe some oil on the new filter's O-ring, screw it back on. Pour in new oil, run 5 minutes, check oil levels. Done. Heh, no really, those smaller systems really shouldn't require much. I'd say the majority of the costs involved though are that you're paying jiffy lube to come to you basically, using a vehicle they purchased, and are also paying the guy, but realistically most of the guys that I know that work on the home products are the equivalent of the jiffy lube guys in our field. It is a totally different ballgame then what I handle these days in my new position, but that's what I learned on was smaller product like that. I will say this much though for you and anybody that does have a home standby system like that. While the hours may not be much, a proper installation should have that thing near operating temperatures and conditions at all time. The oil can also get a moisture content in it affecting it's ph as well. The systems I work on are so big and have so much that we send the oils out for analysis to let us know if they need to be changed. On a smaller setup like yours, it's best to just change it and not worry about it as the testing cost is higher then the oil change cost. Also... USE THE darn THINGS. One of the worst things to do to a generator is to not use it. If it runs weekly does it actually transfer your house to it? (i.e. do you see a quick power outage at the start and end of the test?) If not I'd highly suggest doing that at least once a month, more if feasible. That keeps the moisture out of the windings in the stator, keeps good residual magnetism if it's a self excited end, and those motors are built looser then your standard car motor as they're designed for prolonged periods of heavy load, not sitting there at idle. They're more prone to having issues like fuel leaking past the rings and all on short no load runs or fouling up plugs then if you were to actually put a good solid load on it and get it up to full temperature. They are pretty darn close to a standard car, but there's enough different that you have to take into consideration. By all means though, if you're ever having an issue, hit me up first and I'll try and walk you through it before you get a big bill from a company Edited January 21, 2016 by dread240 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite January 21, 2016 Share January 21, 2016 (edited) I'm not so worried. I'm not sure why, but outages here are rare, and in 6.5 years only once has one lasted a full day. This is in contrast to a block away where the houses have been out for days at a time on a few occasions. Maybe it is because the Metro runs under the building (I think the little building next door is a tunnel access site). Edited January 21, 2016 by treesprite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dread240 January 21, 2016 Share January 21, 2016 (edited) oh and I guess for how prepared I am..... well I'll probably be drinking something alcoholic at melev's house in texas instead of worrying about it lol Edited January 21, 2016 by dread240 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilRams January 21, 2016 Share January 21, 2016 oh and I guess for how prepared I am..... well I'll probably be drinking something alcoholic at melev's house in texas instead of worrying about it lol I have had better luck here with snow storms then with the ice storms back home in Dallas. I remember loosing power for almost a week when I was little. I had a flight out to Atlanta Saturday morning. That's not happening so I'm hoping for Sunday morning. I could leave earlier but feel like I should be here incase anything hits the fan... As long as I'm in Atlanta monday night to see Tool I'm ok! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dread240 January 21, 2016 Share January 21, 2016 Noice, tool? Ever looked @ carolina rebellion? I went last year, was amazing for a 3 day festival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rioreef January 21, 2016 Share January 21, 2016 83 Oldsmobile, new 500W/2A power inverter, and a 100 foot extension cord for a couple of Powerheads and a 150w heater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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