Vodka Dosing - it does work!

[khh27]

http://saltwater-conversion.com/pages/carbon-dosing

[sen5241b]

http://saltwater-conversion.com/pages/carbon-dosing

 

 

THANKS. good article

[madweazl]

It was a good read. Certainly something I'd consider if the need were to arise.

[GraffitiSpotCorals]

I've searched the web and never found anything other than theory about how vodka dosing works. I'm not casting doubt that it does work but it just seems no one really understands the mechanism.

The carbon source feeds bacteria that feeds on nutrients, what is not understood?

 

 

I have finally worked a good dose into my tank now as well. About 30ml vodka and 60ml vinegar a day. I think that's what it is now....

 

I noticed no change in color on my acros. I already fed well, but my nutrients are not ultra low either. I would like to get to that point but I need to get my rlss 12" recirculating skimmer before I can up the dose. I am able to feed a huge amount of food now. A square off a large packet of pe mysis about 3" by 3" and 3\4" thick plus nori and pellets and other frozen cubes everyday. My fish are fat and happy. I would like to get my corals lighter and hopefully a bigger skimmer helps do that by taking out nutrients and the bacteria better.

[John Ford]

I think he dosed vodka. Just a hunch

 

[madweazl]

He read the directions wrong and dosed 151 instead.

[khh27]

He read them backwards.

[gmerek2]

You all are soooo wrong. Vodka needs to be dumped either in my mouth or in a cocktail. Pouring a shot into a fish tank is simply alcohol abuse. Upgrade skimmer, Reduce livestock, consider chaeto growing fuge, spot feed fish slower. much better options that worked for me

[sen5241b]

I think I'm gong to give vodka dosing a shot.

 

Why would you dose vodka?  Why not just dose crushed charcoal? Why vodka?

Edited March 19, 2015 by sen5241b

[DCReefer1964]

I think I'm gong to give vodka dosing a shot.

 

Why would you dose vodka?  Why not just dose crushed charcoal? Why vodka?

WHAT. I think you need to Google Carbon Dosing for Reef Aquariums.

[DCReefer1964]

The carbon source feeds bacteria that feeds on nutrients, what is not understood?

 

 

I have finally worked a good dose into my tank now as well. About 30ml vodka and 60ml vinegar a day. I think that's what it is now....

 

I noticed no change in color on my acros. I already fed well, but my nutrients are not ultra low either. I would like to get to that point but I need to get my rlss 12" recirculating skimmer before I can up the dose. I am able to feed a huge amount of food now. A square off a large packet of pe mysis about 3" by 3" and 3\4" thick plus nori and pellets and other frozen cubes everyday. My fish are fat and happy. I would like to get my corals lighter and hopefully a bigger skimmer helps do that by taking out nutrients and the bacteria better.

Just dose Zeovit Phol's Extra

[GraffitiSpotCorals]

How exactly would that help me?

[AlanM]

This might be germane to this discussion, but I know some folks here use and swear by Red Sea NO3-PO4-X as a carbon source.  Some boffin at Reef Central had his grad students do an NMR analysis of nopox and they discovered it's vodka and vinegar. 

 

Details are here: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2408985

 

And RHF weighs in from time to time on various questions and how much vinegar he doses (a lot).

Edited March 19, 2015 by AlanM

[sen5241b]

According to this article the mechanism behind vodka dosing is not really fully understood. "The addition of vodka/ethanol is thought to increase bacterial biomass."

 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/

[DCReefer1964]

How exactly would that help me?

  :laugh:     Don't know just being an (YouKnow )

[GraffitiSpotCorals]

According to this article the mechanism behind vodka dosing is not really fully understood. "The addition of vodka/ethanol is thought to increase bacterial biomass."[/size]

 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/

I think anyone who doses it would agree it does increase bacterial biomass. Its fairly easy to see when it starts forming, especially on the glass or places you don't want it.

[Origami]

I think anyone who doses it would agree it does increase bacterial biomass. Its fairly easy to see when it starts forming, especially on the glass or places you don't want it.

Definitely. The article cited is from almost 7 years ago. At that time, reefers had been experimenting with dosing various carbon sources and observing the effect on their tanks. The original idea was that uptake of phosphate and nitrate in some tanks was limited by organic carbon that was bioavailable. Many variations on carbon dosing were tried including vodka, sugar, vinegar, rice grains, biodegradeable plastics (aka biopellets), and other proprietary products. In the breakdown of more complex organic molecules, the formation of intermediate sugars, alcohols, aldehydes, keytones, and organic acids is common. Essentially, manual carbon dosing is the mid-stream introduction of these compounds into the decomposition process.

 

Anybody that's tried dosing vinegar through their ATO reservoir knows firsthand that the resulting mix promotes bacterial growth, because of the resulting biofilms that form on the sides of the container. You can also see biofilms form on biopellets for the same reason.

[Rob A]

I tried nopox for awhile. It was considerably more expensive than the vodka and I had to order it online so I just switched to vodka. If I could have picked up the nopox locally might I have continued to use it but since switching the the vodka dosing has driven my nitrates down to undetectable levels, then I had to back off because it was so low that my sps were losing color, but the point its that it worked. I still have traces of phosphates though-maybe the nopox would eliminate those, I don't know. 

Edited March 19, 2015 by Rob A

[DCReefer1964]

Definitely. The article cited is from almost 7 years ago. At that time, reefers had been experimenting with dosing various carbon sources and observing the effect on their tanks. The original idea was that uptake of phosphate and nitrate in some tanks was limited by organic carbon that was bioavailable. Many variations on carbon dosing were tried including vodka, sugar, vinegar, rice grains, biodegradeable plastics (aka biopellets), and other proprietary products. In the breakdown of more complex organic molecules, the formation of intermediate sugars, alcohols, aldehydes, keytones, and organic acids is common. Essentially, manual carbon dosing is the mid-stream introduction of these compounds into the decomposition process.

 

@ Origami Quote :Anybody that's tried dosing vinegar through their ATO reservoir knows firsthand that the resulting mix promotes bacterial growth, because of the resulting biofilms that form on the sides of the container. You can also see biofilms form on biopellets for the same reason. The lack of Cyno bloom is why I choose vinegar / kalk in my ATO over vodka dosing. Although I have seen some great reefs using vodka as a carbon source.

[hlem]

So i switched over to vinegar the last 2-3 days. i can tell you that there is a big difference. 

 

When i was using vodka, i had to clean my glass daily from brown algae, it wasnt bad, but if i left it alone for a week, it gets thick. So for the last 2-3 days, my glass is almost spotless, still few brown algae spots here and there, but i can clearly see it's very clean. havent check my NO3 or PO4, but i'm sure its still good.

[DCReefer1964]

So i switched over to vinegar the last 2-3 days. i can tell you that there is a big difference. 

 

When i was using vodka, i had to clean my glass daily from brown algae, it wasnt bad, but if i left it alone for a week, it gets thick. So for the last 2-3 days, my glass is almost spotless, still few brown algae spots here and there, but i can clearly see it's very clean. havent check my NO3 or PO4, but i'm sure its still good.

tagging along !!!

[GraffitiSpotCorals]

Pretty sure that if brown algae is being created from carbon dosing, something is not right.

 

I am still raising my dose weekly to try and get nutrients lower, its taking a while but I like using a carbon source so far.

[s2nhle]

I have dosed both voka and vinegar for off and on for several years now.

[sen5241b]

I have dosed both voka and vinegar for off and on for several years now.

 

what's best Pros, cons of each?

[Origami]

Carbon dosing has come a long way since it started gaining traction as a hobbyist experiment close to a decade ago. One method was called VSV - which stood for Vodka, Sugar, and Vinegar. VSV was descriptive of the mix that was dosed to tanks. The sugar used was Glucose (also known as Dextrose) or, earlier in the experimentation, table sugar. The idea was that each of these carbon sources were broken down through slightly different, but possibly overlapping, biological pathways and that this promoted diversity.

 

You can get a sense of what reefers were playing with back then in these short reads:

 

2008 Glass Box Design article on VSV dosing wit table sugar as the sugar component, and

2010 Coral Magazine article on VSV dosing with Glucose as the sugar component

 

Personally, I started dosing Vodka around 2006 or 2007. It was pretty new then and I think that the only resource that we really had back then was a long thread at Reef Central talking about the technique and the risks, including a lot of examples of tank crashes as we all experimented with dosages. I dosed vinegar for a while, also. Vodka seemed to work better for me in the early days. Later on, I tried biopellets - which are really just beads of certain biodegradeable plastics - as a carbon source substitute, and stopped dosing the other liquid sources. I never got around to trying the VSV mix, which some people swear by.

 

So, if you're inclined to test the waters with DIY carbon dosing, realize that there's already a lot of history and pathways blazed by reefers of the past that may be useful to you. This discussion has me contemplating experimenting again with carbon dosing using a mixed source like VSV.