Yellow Tang Going White

[LCDRDATA]

So I've had this yellow tang for a couple of years now, and this morning my wife tells me he's turning white - especially his face. The only thing that's changed in the tank recently is the clownfish have spawned for the first time (eggs laid 3 Feb), and so have gotten very territorial around where the eggs are. I know they've picked on him a bit in that part of the tank. Other than that, I have no idea why his color would change - there's not sign of malnourishment, for example. Any experience/ideas? Thanks.

[flooddc]

Not sure! but most fish change color when light out or frightened. Also, I have seen captive yellow tangs with lighter color as they grow bigger (I think it's due to lack of natural color nutrition). Maybe try some color enhancer food to see if color improved.

[wangspeed]

How white? Mine loses color at night and gets a white spot on his body.

 

 

--

Warren

[LCDRDATA]

How white? Mine loses color at night and gets a white spot on his body.

 

 

--

Warren

 

I'll try and get / post a decent picture later today. However, this isn't the overnight fading you describe. I've seen that, too, and this is something different.

[gmerek2]

Could be related to stress of some sorts. Check for stray voltage with multimeter. Pull your carbon. Could also be start of HLLE

[zygote2k]

tangs can lose pigmentation. check out some of Copps' old threads for examples.

[menglish]

Is this where its heading?

[nextlevel808]

I've always liked purple tangs better but I would take that yellow/white tang any day

[s2nhle]

wow, it maybe a white tang. I have mine for several years without changing the color. still yellow.

[LCDRDATA]

OK, it's been longer than I intended, but here are two shots of the fish I just took, plus one from not quite two years ago. I'm thinking (and not in a positive way) HLLE? Agree/disagree/any recommendations?

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2015 by LCDRDATA

[Origami]

Looks like HLLE. Are you tumbling carbon in a reactor? A few years ago, microscopic carbon fines were implicated in HLLE (according to some paper that was published). 

 

http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/activated-carbon-hlle-smoking-gun-found

[LCDRDATA]

Looks like HLLE. Are you tumbling carbon in a reactor? A few years ago, microscopic carbon fines were implicated in HLLE (according to some paper that was published). 

 

http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/activated-carbon-hlle-smoking-gun-found

 

I am running a combination (layered) of carbon and phosguard in a small reactor, but not at a flow rate that there is significant tumbling. Do you think I should pull the carbon? Any other treatment suggestions? 

[ridetheducati]

Increase feeding of broccoli florets and seaweed.

[wade]

There was also correlation with too little light (or too blue) with HLLE in tangs many years ago. I would boost veg feeding (nori, etc) and reduce meaty foods.

[Origami]

The GFO is significantly harder than a lot of carbon and putting them together in any situation where there's tumbling may cause the carbon to abrade.  

 

I don't know about the nutrition aspect that's being suggested as to its efficacy for treatment, but better nutrition never hurts. The 2011 report that I pointed to only implicated carbon as a cause but not the mechanism. Also, while it says that carbon is a cause, it doesn't say that carbon is the ONLY cause. There have been lots of ideas over the years. Keep in mind that I've never had to deal with HLLE in my tanks or to treat a fish with the condition. I'm only relaying what information seemed to be "groundbreaking" back in 2011 after many years of guessing in the hobbyist ranks. Hopefully, this points you in the direction of further research and direction to see if you can stop the erosion and restore some health to this fish.

 

Note that the post that I pointed to indicated that 19% of a respondent group found that they got a "complete reversal of HLLE by discontinuing the use of carbon filtration." (I assume that this means that the erosion stopped and was reversed, and that a healthy looking fish resulted.) The experiment, performed by Jay Herndal, Curator of Fishes at the Toledo Zoo, included diet as a variable and found that a good diet did not prevent the HLLE in the fish that were studied. Further, after carbon removal, diet did not seem to completely restore the overall health of stricken fishes. (It didn't say anything about the cosmetic effects of a good diet, though.)

 

Note also that the article says that, in the experience of others, simply taking the carbon offline may not quickly solve the problem, to which the author postulates that removing the source does not remove the fines that may remain in the system.

 

The carbon that was used in the study was lignite-based carbon, which is fairly common in the hobby. It was postulated that softer carbon might cause more problems, while harder pelleted types might abrade less easily. 

 

A lot of aquarists use carbon without HLLE showing up in their tanks. (I'm among this group, having used carbon for a decade without problem.) Herndal says that it could just be a better carbon that was used, better rinsing, etc. For many years now (since early 2011), I've used BRS Rox carbon - a small, hard pelleted type. But, before that, I used a granular lignite supplied by a friend that was once in the business. In all cases, I always thoroughly rinsed the carbon until the water ran through it clean. Rox, for what it's worth, rinses clean very quickly and is one reason why I like it.

[wade]

I am on board with Origami's thoughts too. Using a fine filter sock would not hurt. I would def not mix gfo and carbon in a single reaction chamber.

[flooddc]

No experience with HLLE! Sorry about your YT. Hope it make a speedy recovery.

[s2nhle]

I feed my tang with variety of dry food, seaweed, and frozen live food weekly. so far I have not get any HLLE yet. Knock on wood.

[LCDRDATA]

The GFO is significantly harder than a lot of carbon and putting them together in any situation where there's tumbling may cause the carbon to abrade.  ... 

 

Note also that the article says that, in the experience of others, simply taking the carbon offline may not quickly solve the problem, to which the author postulates that removing the source does not remove the fines that may remain in the system.

 

The carbon that was used in the study was lignite-based carbon, which is fairly common in the hobby. It was postulated that softer carbon might cause more problems, while harder pelleted types might abrade less easily. 

 

A lot of aquarists use carbon without HLLE showing up in their tanks. (I'm among this group, having used carbon for a decade without problem.) Herndal says that it could just be a better carbon that was used, better rinsing, etc. For many years now (since early 2011), I've used BRS Rox carbon - a small, hard pelleted type. But, before that, I used a granular lignite supplied by a friend that was once in the business. In all cases, I always thoroughly rinsed the carbon until the water ran through it clean. Rox, for what it's worth, rinses clean very quickly and is one reason why I like it.

 

To clarify, I was running the carbon as the top layer in the reactor, with a layer of Seachem Phosguard -- a white pelleted resin, NOT GFO -- beneath it, and at a low flow rate to minimize any tumbling. However, I think this time around I ended up with a lower-quality carbon as well, and between that and the apparent reality I should probably pull the carbon out of my reactor. I looked over the abstract/"layman's" version of the study you referenced, and the experimental design (and results) seemed fairly rigorous. Hopefully once I pull it the problem should clear up (at least in terms of limiting further damage) quickly, as I'm skimming well and running a pair of 200 micron filter socks. If I choose to run carbon again, I'll stick to something like the BRS Rox.

 

I don't know about the nutrition aspect that's being suggested as to its efficacy for treatment, but better nutrition never hurts. The 2011 report that I pointed to only implicated carbon as a cause but not the mechanism. Also, while it says that carbon is a cause, it doesn't say that carbon is the ONLY cause. There have been lots of ideas over the years. Keep in mind that I've never had to deal with HLLE in my tanks or to treat a fish with the condition. I'm only relaying what information seemed to be "groundbreaking" back in 2011 after many years of guessing in the hobbyist ranks. Hopefully, this points you in the direction of further research and direction to see if you can stop the erosion and restore some health to this fish.

 

Note that the post that I pointed to indicated that 19% of a respondent group found that they got a "complete reversal of HLLE by discontinuing the use of carbon filtration." (I assume that this means that the erosion stopped and was reversed, and that a healthy looking fish resulted.) The experiment, performed by Jay Herndal, Curator of Fishes at the Toledo Zoo, included diet as a variable and found that a good diet did not prevent the HLLE in the fish that were studied. Further, after carbon removal, diet did not seem to completely restore the overall health of stricken fishes. (It didn't say anything about the cosmetic effects of a good diet, though.)

 

As far as diet goes, I'm feeding half a sheet of purple seaweed daily, along with New Life Spectrum THERA +A pellets and homemade frozen comprised mostly of blended tail-on organic shrimp, silversides, green nori, and Kent Marine Chromaplex. It's only after I started feeding this frozen (after finally running out of Jan's  ) that my clowns started laying eggs, so at the risk of invoking a post hoc fallacy, I think I'm doing something right food-wise in the tank at large, anyway.

[gmerek2]

I bought my tank used and the hippo tang came with it free of HLLE. I never ran carbon but it is possible that the guy before me ran it. He wasn't running it when I went to look at the tank and I have video of him free of HLLE. My tang a month after moving in with me got HLLE. My theory or opinion is that stress of ANY kind can cause it. It could be stray voltage, poor diet, lighting issue, carbon causing stress issue, salinity, PH, a tank too small, too much rockwork, overgrown coral, an elderly captive tang, etc.... So here is my evidence for my meaningless opinion: I was new and learning may not have given him best water quality. I had stray voltage in the tank for under a week (I don't stick my hands in every day and who knows how long it took for my thick skin to feel it)I fed nothing but poor quality flake for the first couple weeks, my tank is TOO SMALL for a blue hippo tang. Yes it's 6' but most fish websites say 180 and I feel that needs bumped up. what I'm curious about is how much a tang can heal after the HLLE stressor is fixed. But that is a topic for another discussion.

Edited March 12, 2015 by gmerek2