matt July 21, 2014 July 21, 2014 (edited) Get ready for the full story - this could get IS kinda long. The basic decision I need help with is shoud I set up a new nano or 120g (4' x 2') in my basement for my 'extra' SPS. The rest of the below is bringing you into my head to keep suggestions realistic given the back story. So I've been running 46bow with good results for over two years. I keep SPS and auto-dose...my fish are a 1 young/small-ish yellow tang, 1 potters angel, 1 starki damsel, and 1 false perc. With picking up new corals along with growth...space has been getting tight and I wanted to upgrade (tang will ultimately need bigger home too). I thought the ideal time would be after my ktichen remodel as the wife would be happy and we had planned to put in new flooring whose installation would have required me to temporarily move the current tank anway. (We did 95% of the reno ourselves...time suck...but now done) Well, we ultimately nixed the new floors for now and the 46bow stayed where it was. However, I went ahead and jumped on an extremely lightly used 120g before that was fully finalized as I was expecting I could shuffle things into the 120 as a temp home in the basement and then set things up back upstairs. None of that ultimately happened given no new floors. So here I am...the kitchen is finally done and the 46bow remains in place and my wife very VERY reluctantly tells me I she could live with the 120g being added to the current mix...but only on the main floor because why would we keep a big tank in the basement where we don't spend time (fair point). The 120g won't fit where the 46bow is because the wall is solidly packed (tank->long toy shelves->diaper changing station). This means she is going to give up her desk area and pay bills etc working on the kitchen table...give and take...where her desk sits is the only possible placement. Marital stress aside...I'm now really excited as I really love the 120 dimensions. They miss'us then gives me until the end of July to figure it all out or no-go for her...she wants 'the glass pack-n-play' in use or up for sale and on its way out of the finished basement / guest room / my office. Then, problem...I finally do a full measurement / site plan etc on the main floor after frag fest. No matter how I situate the 120g on either of two walls in that available corner...I realize the tank will require I move not only her desk but another set of storage kid shelves that also serve as the only place for adults to set drinks etc when on the couch. Basically, I was either going to get my 120g on the main floor or we could keep needed and existing kid storage and my wife's desk. I don't have the heart to make everyone sacrifice for two tanks on the main floor, so only the 46bow will remain there for now. But I'm still left with a space issue in the 46bow. I've tried to contain my coral addiction, but I still have too many corals for the space and at least one of my fish will one day benefit from a bigger home that could also handle heavier feedings. New plan, when the second kid is out of diapers next year we will reconfigure our first floor furniture and find a place for a bigger tank (maybe a DSA 105). But what do I do right now to get all this SPS off my front sandbed so I can actually scrape the full front pane?? I think I still need a second tank and having one keeps me in projects (smile), but It will be relegated to the basement for growout and get much less viewing time until I start teleworking part-time again in 2015. (Wife tells me she can live with this, but isn't going down to stare at 120g with me) So should I set up the 120g I already have? Should I set up the 21g rimless cube I picked up to use as a sump? Should I set up my old 30g Oceanic Cube if I find I can drill it? Should I set up something else? And of course, should I simply enjoy what I have and get rid of some corals? Components available for this potential build that I have picked up used or new along the way ...or planned to buy new and haven't pull the trigger just yet... Tanks: -AGA 120g (4'x2'x2') not reef ready, but can be drilled in back and has a pine stand - on hand (envisioning SPS tank with few fish...multiple dwarf angels and/or anthias) -21g Rimless Deep Blue frag tank (20"x20"x12"), can be drilled in any pane...no stand - on hand (envisioning SPS grow out, & maybe blue spot jawfish..would need screen for kids anyway) -30g Oceanic cube (20"x18"x20"), not entirely sure it can or can't be drilled...no stand - on hand (similar to above stocking) Controller: -AC3 with DC8 (my current backup) - in hand Dosing: -BRS dosers - x2 in hand Water Motion: -WP40 - in hand -Tunze 6055 with an Neptune Aquasurf and battery backup - in hand -Sicce Voyager 4 - x2 in hand -MP10 - in hand, but not gonna help on the 120g thick glass Return Pump: -Tunze Silence 1073.020 (for a nano return pump) - in hand -Sicce 3 or 3.5 return pump - planned for the 120g Sump: -Eshopps RS-75 sump (18"x10"x16") - in hand from old nano project -Deep Blue 21g Rimless (20"x20"x12") fits through 120g AGA stand door and is why I bought it from QR used - in hand **The eshopps can actually sit inside the deep blue and effectively give me a small (for a 120g) 3 chamber sump once the eshopps is drilled** Overflow: -Little prefilter overflow box with DIY herbie planned for a pico/nano - on hand -CPR Retrofit Overflow Box with DIY herbie - planned for the 120g Skimmer: -Reef Octopus Classic 150 ...aquatrance for now, BB2000 at pump replacement - planned for the 120g -SCA 302 - on my 46bow now, but could be repurposed for a new nano and I'd then upgrade/refresh upstairs...to what, I dunno Lights: -Ocean Revive S026- planned on x2 for the 120g, but would do 1 for a nano cube -T5 supplements - considering x2 or x4 DIY retrofit on the 120g ATO: -Single switch ATO.com unit - on hand and could be used, but might also go on my skimmer upstairs -Dual switch ATO.com unit or avast pressure switch - planned for 120g (I use dual ato.com unit on the 46) Feeding: -Eheim auto fish feeder - in hand Miscellaneous -30g Oceanic cube - now used for RODI storage -27g marineland cubes for water mixing/storage - considering x2 purchase Wow...that was a lot of info. I appreciate your thoughtful suggestions!! It was either you guys or a good therapist and/or bartender! Edited July 21, 2014 by matt
BowieReefer84 July 21, 2014 July 21, 2014 (edited) "simply enjoy what I have and get rid of some corals" I find the hobby much more relaxing and enjoyable when the wife is happy. Also, it seems you could make a decent amount of money selling what you have stock piled. Is their something you want to upgrade on the bowfront? Maybe some nice fancy fish you wouldn't otherwise get? Restore your interest in the current tank. Whatever you decide it seems well thought out, and that's half the battle. Not being impulsive. When I see the same folks buying like crazy on here I wonder what their relationship status is like. Edited July 21, 2014 by BowieReefer84
Origami July 21, 2014 July 21, 2014 Matt, since you don't spend much time in the basement, me ask this: Is the intent to set up a second display in a visible area of the basement, or are you open to just setting up an efficient grow-out / propagation setup requiring less in the way of aesthetic appeal? If the latter, you might consider a shallower tank (better light penetration) with more surface area (more room for grow out).
brad908 July 21, 2014 July 21, 2014 Well, I know what I would do. "Should I set up something else?" If you're not happy, how is the wife supposed to be happy? Happy Brad, happy wife/life.
Coral Hind July 21, 2014 July 21, 2014 I would not do anything to take space away from the wife. I also think that tanks that are not visually enjoyed tend to become chores so I would not set it up in a basement that isn't used much. If all you are doing is going down to feed or check water parameters you will not really enjoy the tank. Myself, I would not set up another tank. Instead, just sell some of the corals now to make room for the ones you really want. Set that profit aside for next year when you reconfigure the house and purchase the DSA 105.
matt July 21, 2014 Author July 21, 2014 (edited) Thanks everyone - I do generally subscribe to the happy wife happy life motto. I've just reached a point I got to push a little bit or I'll lose some self respect. We bought a new car (she is driving it) and built a new kitchen...and I was looking for the next step in my domain..the tank. All fair comments, thank your for offering some thoughts and keeping it real. "simply enjoy what I have and get rid of some corals" I find the hobby much more relaxing and enjoyable when the wife is happy. Also, it seems you could make a decent amount of money selling what you have stock piled. Is their something you want to upgrade on the bowfront? Maybe some nice fancy fish you wouldn't otherwise get? Restore your interest in the current tank. Whatever you decide it seems well thought out, and that's half the battle. Not being impulsive. When I see the same folks buying like crazy on here I wonder what their relationship status is like. Unfortunately, I don't feel like I should add much to the 46g...I got it used and it wasn't in perfect shape then. Don't want to go overboard on that tank...I would swap it out but I think my wife really likes how it fits so nicely in color and width and height compared tot he rest of the furniture on that wall. That, and it all runs quite well together. Not sure I'd add fish right now without removing someone...can't get rid of the tang or clown, those were for the family...and the potter's and starki were hunted down for me. Kind of at a loss for what to do with it other than watch it. I do hear you though...thanks the offerring up the thought. Happy wife happy life. You learn quickly daniel-son :-) +1 on enjoying what you have.Less is more Would have to think real hard about what I'd part with...that's the problem. I feel like I was already being choosy. Buuuut....starting to see a pattern with the responses to this thread. Thanks, Rob. I know you bring no BS to this discussion...I've always appreciated your candor. Well, I know what I would do. "Should I set up something else?" If you're not happy, how is the wife supposed to be happy? Happy Brad, happy wife/life. Haha - what tank would you recommend Brad? The goal is moslty SPS growout...the 21 with a big sump...the 30 with a sump...something else fun I haven't though of that I can do fast and not go broke doing? This won't be THE tank in my life...nor planned as permanent. The aesthetics will be pure hobby fun...the rest is about purpose. Matt, since you don't spend much time in the basement, me ask this: Is the intent to set up a second display in a visible area of the basement, or are you open to just setting up an efficient grow-out / propagation setup requiring less in the way of aesthetic appeal? If the latter, you might consider a shallower tank (better light penetration) with more surface area (more room for grow out). Actually I would totally be open to grow out. That's mostly what I need if this is in the basement....but it's the finished basement. We do have guests sleep down there and it's a very large single room. The aesthetics are part for my amusement and part because...well...we do have people stay there when they visit and I want to have some pride in it. Was kinda leaning towards the 21g rimless as its shallow for grow out and it fit right on the extension arm of my desk. However, I'm worried kids will toss things in there being so low and rimless...well...it will end up covered somehow so not really much of a plus in this use. Would probably build a tall stand for it. and cover it with a hood...that myabe could rotate out on a monitor swivel or something so I could 'work' in it. Not trying to grow for sale...growing for a future bigger tank. Edited July 21, 2014 by matt
matt July 21, 2014 Author July 21, 2014 I would not do anything to take space away from the wife. I also think that tanks that are not visually enjoyed tend to become chores so I would not set it up in a basement that isn't used much. If all you are doing is going down to feed or check water parameters you will not really enjoy the tank. Myself, I would not set up another tank. Instead, just sell some of the corals now to make room for the ones you really want. Set that profit aside for next year when you reconfigure the house and purchase the DSA 105. Thanks and I hear you...that was why I was focused on the 120 being on the main floor now. Just not to be. Hard to part with those corals though. One of the reasons I hate to toss the 120 is that setting it up now in the basement would mean I could get a brand-spanking new one ...or the DSA 105...and have everything I need ready to go on the main floor when I do that. If I set up another nano grow out, then the components may or may not be re-usable on a bigger tank that's on the horizon.
Coral Hind July 21, 2014 July 21, 2014 Setting up equipment for a smaller system that will later be too small to use on the future tank may be wasting money. Because you have a coral addiction, setting up another tank is just enabling yourself to buy more frags because you will now have the room.
smallreef July 21, 2014 July 21, 2014 If you have that older 30...or even the 21 I'd just set a frag tank beside her desk...the 120 would be nice..but if there is no space atm thats what it is... or possible set up the 120g and take down the 46? And move all the kids stuff and desk over there is space permits...if not i think we could come over and have a planning party for you,lol i know where you live
ridetheducati July 21, 2014 July 21, 2014 I would setup the 120 in the basement for the purposes of collecting and growing corals that excite you. Setup the main display after the first floor is reconfigured. If possible, plan for a six foot tank.
brad908 July 21, 2014 July 21, 2014 Didn't realize deep blue makes a 20x20x12 thought that was a typo for the typical 24x24x12. I would set up a nice little bare bottom shallow reef/grow out tank.
Keraxis July 21, 2014 July 21, 2014 If you already got the 120 then i would plan on using it. Will your floor handle the weight of a 120 thought. You just did a reno and it would suck to have to redo some of the floor to handle it. Your looking at probably 8.33x120=999.6 pounds in just water. 120 pounds of live rock plus coral. Probably 200 for the stand if its wood and 100 if its framed out metal. In the end your looking at 1400 to 1500 pounds on a small space on the floor. Perhaps a nice rimless frag tank would be better for what you want.
ridetheducati July 21, 2014 July 21, 2014 Strongly encourage a professional engineer structural assessment for systems over 120 gallons setup on first and second floors. $200-$300
matt July 21, 2014 Author July 21, 2014 (edited) Thanks everybody...I'm mulling over all your thoughts and I welcome more 120 short or long is probably as big as I go...in this townhouse. if we move in a year or three I may go up to 180...where i'd let my passion rest...I think Where the 46 sits is on an exterior wall shared by another townhouse. The wall runs perpeindicular to the truss joists. Where I had hoped to put the 120 would be on a wall between our living room and stairs...so over a double joist and another joist or two, but parallel. Second choice was on the wall that meets the wall at the stairs...so again an exterior wall and perpindicular to the joists, with one joist being a double joist. Since I'm waiting to upgrade on the main floor, the big tank will probably go where the 46bow is now. Edited July 21, 2014 by matt
matt July 21, 2014 Author July 21, 2014 (edited) So...to help everyone visualize.... This is where I can't yet squeeze a bigger tank...until that baby changing station is gone. The 46bow pictured is 3 ft. (just another day of toddler madness druing my kitch reno...kitchen on right just out of frame) And this is where I'd hoped to put the 120g...right in the corner right where the desk is...or on that perpindicular wall. Storage cubes behind couch were the ultimate deal breaker Just for fun, this is the 120g where it's been laying in wait for me...in between my desk and the guest bed. The bed can't really move much to the right without eliminating walk-space on that side, but the desk's right section (visible) is 30"x20" and I could remove that peice in favor of a tank...the 120g or a something smaller. I could also put the tank in the corner where my desk sits and slide my desk over a bit to give more distance between tank plumbing and sleepers. The finished basement is the width of our townhouse and more than half as deep....can't remember those measurements off-hand. Basedment is 1/2 guestroom, 1/4 office, and 1/4 playroom overflow. Edited July 21, 2014 by matt
matt July 21, 2014 Author July 21, 2014 I should have showed you all this too. I had posted and gotten good feedback on IKEA kitchen cabinets...thank you ...and this is how it came out. The only thing we didn't do ourselves as the counter-top install. This is what my lady got
BowieReefer84 July 21, 2014 July 21, 2014 (edited) Can you fit a 3'x3' cube where the bowfront is in that corner? Would that be big enough to make you happy? Edited July 21, 2014 by BowieReefer84
matt July 21, 2014 Author July 21, 2014 Can you fit a 3'x3' cube where the bowfront is in that corner? Would that be big enough to make you happy? Close, but not quite. I might have been good with that too...at least for a while. I was measuring when I saw some of those recent for sale posts. ;-)
sen5241b July 21, 2014 July 21, 2014 I have a 20G long and I think about going bigger all the time then I remember that I enjoy the extra time I have because I have a 20G.
L8 2 RISE July 22, 2014 July 22, 2014 (edited) I have done the coral grow out thing in the past, and as others have suggested, it just becomes a chore and money pit when you could be saving it and spending it on the bigger system when the time comes. If you split each of those colonies into 3-4 pieces, sell them off, and keep track of who you sold to, you should be able to acquire frags of the pieces you sold when the time comes. Also, side note, you mentioned that the mp10 will not be an option on the 120 due to glass thickness. Most mp10s can handle 1/2 inch glass even though they aren't advertised this way. I have two of them on my 57 rimless, 1/2 inch glass as we speak. Edited July 22, 2014 by L8 2 RISE
Ryan S August 18, 2014 August 18, 2014 So...to help everyone visualize.... This is where I can't yet squeeze a bigger tank...until that baby changing station is gone. The 46bow pictured is 3 ft. (just another day of toddler madness druing my kitch reno...kitchen on right just out of frame) How wide is that wall? 10' or so? Is the ultimate plan to put a 6' or 8' tank on that wall? Is this in the basement or upstairs? I'd get an engineer if it's not the basement. And I'd recommend any purchases you make for the bow, 120g, or cubes, be something usable on the ultimate "big" tank down the road, otherwise it's wasted money. The SPS pics are great btw. You've definitely got the bug!
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