If you don't like me don't open this.

[Joshifer]

Steve from QR have me a nice pep talk and made me feel better and confident in myself. I'm thankful.

I would appreciate keeping your abrasive comments to yourself as I will no longer be polite with certain individuals.

 

But forget that. I'm asking a question. You are NOT obligated to read or reply to this. Theirs no gun to your head to reply.

 

Steve came thru and got me a ORA clown smaller then mine. An amazing feat. Bravo

"Nemo" who is larger is following the new one around and twitching. I assume this is a mating ritual. The little one isn't doing anything just swimming around their not fighting that's good. Anything I need to look for that'll be dangerous. As in to kill each other ?

 

I googled. I'm getting mixed answers.

[Squishie89]

First off I wanted to say I am glad you stayed here at WAMAS and in the hobby. It can be rough when first starting out.
Given that the 2 clowns have not attempted to kill each other yet is a good sign. My 2 clowns wiggle at each other quite frequently. Keep an eye out for any bits of fin missing, as this will tell you they got in a fight.

[Der ABT]

There will be some fighting most likely just watch for jumping. If one terrorizes the other it is usually obvious that you need to step in but watch for fins being frayed and make sure he eats.

Otherwise welcome back

 

Remember some people don't come off well thru a computer but if you come to a meeting you will end up with new friends and frags regardless

Edited September 21, 2013 by Der ABT

[Djplus1]

Twitching is normal. It's a dominance thing. Looks like they're having a stroke though, right?!

[Scott_LM]

Don't worry about it unless the larger pins the smaller in a corner.  The larger (female) is asserting her dominance, this is perfectly normal.  Mating ritual will look slightly different.  You will see lots of "cleaning" of the nest sight when they begin to mate. 

[Quantum Aquaria]

Steve from QR have me a nice pep talk and made me feel better and confident in myself. I'm thankful.

I would appreciate keeping your abrasive comments to yourself as I will no longer be polite with certain individuals.

 

But forget that. I'm asking a question. You are NOT obligated to read or reply to this. Theirs no gun to your head to reply.

 

Steve came thru and got me a ORA clown smaller then mine. An amazing feat. Bravo

"Nemo" who is larger is following the new one around and twitching. I assume this is a mating ritual. The little one isn't doing anything just swimming around their not fighting that's good. Anything I need to look for that'll be dangerous. As in to kill each other ?

 

I googled. I'm getting mixed answers.

 

  this made my night... good for you.  come back with guns blazing

 

Don't worry about it.. this is normal behavior... just keep an eye out the next few days... as Evans indicates, just watch for really aggressive behavior from the larger one... and keep an eye out for the fins and such of the smaller guy and make sure that it's eating.  If you see it nipped or beat up, catch and bring it in so that we can ensure it's recovery... otherwise, enjoy and watch nature in action. 

[Joshifer]

Thanks everyone. For the info. And concern. Ill keep an eye. Their not getting getting close enough to touch/nip but are following and hovering. The larger is twitching looks like a seizure lol. But looks happy not to be alone in the tank anymore

[Joshifer]

Just thought of something while watching them interact...

 

I know they change their sex and all that.

But since "nemo" is bigger then the new one. Does that mean nemo will be the girl? Or can it change and nemo stops growing and the new one gets bigger? I mean I know theirs no telling who's gonna be male or female. But ones already bigger. I just confused myself. It isn't life changing knowledge. Never mind lol

[YHSublime]

Just thought of something while watching them interact...

 

I know they change their sex and all that.

But since "nemo" is bigger then the new one. Does that mean nemo will be the girl? Or can it change and nemo stops growing and the new one gets bigger? I mean I know theirs no telling who's gonna be male or female. But ones already bigger. I just confused myself. It isn't life changing knowledge. Never mind lol

sh, the bigger one will be the female. Welcome back!

[lutz123]

Glad you got Nemo a friend. He (she?) sounded so tiny I wouldn't expect any issues. I am not sure if you have the tank covered, but I lost a young clown to carpetsurfing - he actually did it twice in one week. That would be my concern over actual nipping. I suspect it was a dominance thing even though they appeared to be fine during the day.

[Orion]

Glad you got Nemo a friend. He (she?) sounded so tiny I wouldn't expect any issues. I am not sure if you have the tank covered, but I lost a young clown to carpetsurfing - he actually did it twice in one week. That would be my concern over actual nipping. I suspect it was a dominance thing even though they appeared to be fine during the day.

Glad you are back, Josh. +1 on making sure the top of the tank is covered. Any new fish in an aquarium is susceptible to jumping out.

[steveoutlaw]

My wife makes me twitch all the time.  I guess that's just how things work in nature.

[Coral Hind]

Since there are a few new people to the boards lately and they might not know how to pair off clowns I figured I would repost something I have posted on other boards as well as on WAMAS awhile ago. This should answer some questions for the newbies reading this thread. It's probably more information then what most need but here it is anyways.


Sex changes
1. Clownfish are protandrous hermaphrodites. They are hatched as sexually immature fish. Based on signals from their environment and being physically mature after 12-24 months they will either remain sexually immature, change into a male or change into a male then female. This is a one way trip, sexless to male never to be sexless again and male to female never to be male again.

2. A clownfish kept by its self will become a female in a short period of time if it is physically mature, in as little as a month.

3. Two female clowns will fight. The tell tale sign that you have two females is fighting ending in the two locking their mouths together. We are not talking about the normal love bites and taps here.

Pairing techniques
There are a couple of proven techniques to pair same species of clownfish.

1. Grow out technique:
With this technique two small juvenile clownfish are purchased at the same time and introduced into the tank at the same time. The fish will establish a dominate submissive relationship as they mature and eventually form a pair bond. This technique works the vast majority of the time.

Notes: Since the fish are going to fight and/or chase each other to establish who is the dominate fish and who is the submissive fish, it will often speed the pairing process and reduce fighting and potential damage to the fish by getting one of the two juveniles larger than the other. The smaller will quickly give up to the larger one. This technique should not be applied to Premnas species (maroon) clownfish as they are aggressive and will still fight.

2. Add a new clownfish to an existing clownfish technique:
With having an existing clownfish in your tank adding a new clownfish to form a pair can be a little harder or in other words more dangerous to the new fish. The technique is basically the same as the grow out technique. You will want to find a small juvenile clownfish and add it to the tank with the existing fish. By getting a small juvenile fish you are not risking possible sex compatibility problems, i.e. two females.

Example: Existing A. Ocellaris clownfish that has been in the tank by it's self for over a year. We can assume this fish is a female based on size, age and environment. A 3/4" to 1-1/2" juvenile from a community tank is added to the tank. The vast majority of the time the new fish will submit to the existing fish with little or no fighting at all. This technique should not be applied to Premnas species (maroon) clownfish as they are aggressive and will still fight.

3. Pairing Premnas species clownfish (maroon clownfish):
Pairing maroon clowns is much more problematic than pairing Amphiprion species clownfish. Maroons are notorious for being very aggressive towards other clownfish. They are pretty much fearless and will only back down from an all out fight when presented with the overwhelming threat of death.

Separation Technique:
The only technique I am aware of that works the vast majority of the time with the least amount of damage as possible is to use a separation and slow acclimation process to introduce a potential mate to a maroon clownfish.

First you need to have a large female already established in your tank before trying a pairing. The clownfish should be at least 3" from nose to start of the caudal fin. Next you will need to do a little preparation before buying a potential mate for your maroon. You need something to securely separate the two fish in the same tank while still allowing the fish to see each other and the new fish to get water flow. You can use a clear plastic specimen container with holes drilled in it for example.

Now go to the LFS and find the smallest juvenile maroon from a community tank that you can find. It should be no larger than 1" from nose to start of caudal fin. Acclimate the new maroon just as you would any other fish. Once the new maroon is acclimated to your tanks water, place the new maroon in the specimen container. Let the two fish see each other, place the specimen container near the females territory. Carefully watch the female's behavior. If she is trying to attack the new fish through the container, it is not safe to release the new maroon. Give her time to cool off from the disruption to her tank and addition of a foreign clownfish in her tank.

Now that the female has cooled her temper it is time to try an introduction. Get your favorite fish net ready and release the new maroon to the tank. If the fighting gets too bad you will need to rescue the new maroon and place it back in the container and try the next day. If after three failed attempts you can write off the new maroon as incompatible and you will need a new juvenile to try with.

Understanding submissive behavior in clownfish:
As a part of pairing you need to know what submissive behavior is. You will know that you are well on your way to a successful pairing when one fish submits to the other fish. This is especially important behavior to observe in maroon clownfish.

Amphiprion and Premnas species submissive behavior goes something like this. First the dominate fish will rush or otherwise attack the submissive fish. The submissive fish will turn sideways to the dominate fish and tilt its belly towards the dominate fish and quiver like an epileptic seizure. The female should recognize this behavior and stop the attack short of actual damage. Sometimes in new pairings and old well established pair bonds the dominate fish will move to a parallel position to the submissive and quiver back to the submissive fish.

In Maroon clowns there is an additional submissive behavior that is unique to maroons. When the submissive fish is rushed or otherwise attacked it/he will duck the attack, slip to the side of the female and tenderly kiss her cheek spines and pectoral fins of his beloved female.

Signs that you have a pair bond in your clownfish:
There are a couple of signs that a pair bond has formed and is maturing in your clownfish in addition to submissive behavior. Typically mated pairs (pairs that have a pair bond) will sleep in the same area. They will also host in the same host or stay in the same territory if there is no natural host present. The two fish will stay close to each other the vast majority of the time.

The pair bond is a developing thing. It starts out as a general acceptance of each other. Then slowly develops into a closer relationship were both fish are together most of the time. There is a bickering phase too where the female will make sure the male knows who is the boss. During this time it is not uncommon to find the poor little dejected male cowering near their normal host/territory. But don't worry this is normal and the male will be accepted back sooner or later. The ultimate end of the pair bond is seen in a spawning event such as nest cleaning or laying of eggs.

Some information taken from "Clownfishes" by Joyce Wilkerson. This is a great little book if you are thinking of raising clownfish.          

[Origami]

^^ Great post, Coral Hind. It wasn't until the end, where you talk about one fish rushing the other and the second quivering that I realize that I'd read it before when you posted it elsewhere. Thanks for the refresher.

[BowieReefer84]

Coral hind covered it all so I will post a couple videos of my old clownfish pair in my old tank.

 

 

 

 

One of the coolest things there is to see while running a tank

[Joshifer]

My wife makes me twitch all the time.  I guess that's just how things work in nature.

That made my day lol thanks

[Joshifer]

Great post coral hind. They seem to be doing great.

[PK3]

I am no clownfish expert by any means, but my experience with many pairs of ocellaris and percula clownfish is that the smaller male does the twitching when the larger female charges or comes near. I've never seen the larger female twitch. With that in mind, I find it odd that the larger "Nemo" of yours is the one twitching and the smaller one is just swimming around. Does anyone have any other experience with the twitching? In any case, keep an eye on them for aggression.

[Joshifer]

I am no clownfish expert by any means, but my experience with many pairs of ocellaris and percula clownfish is that the smaller male does the twitching when the larger female charges or comes near. I've never seen the larger female twitch. With that in mind, I find it odd that the larger "Nemo" of yours is the one twitching and the smaller one is just swimming around. Does anyone have any other experience with the twitching? In any case, keep an eye on them for aggression.

I've never had any problems at all. Knock on wood. Lol. They never fight or pick or charge or anything. They just follow each other around. The bigger one twitches. The little one does nothing.

[Squishie89]

I wonder if it is possible that they are an a-typical pair. The large one is a male, just a large one (was possibly with a very large female). And the small one is female, just a small one (was around an even smaller female maybe)

 

Sent from my toaster using tapatalk2

 

 

[smallreef]

I'm not sure if his pair (i should say whichever male changes to female) has changed sexes quite yet...they are REALLY tiny...so it would not surprise me if one started showing dominance or submissiveness contrary to our normal thinking...

[Coral Hind]

I am no clownfish expert by any means, but my experience with many pairs of ocellaris and percula clownfish is that the smaller male does the twitching when the larger female charges or comes near. I've never seen the larger female twitch. With that in mind, I find it odd that the larger "Nemo" of yours is the one twitching and the smaller one is just swimming around. Does anyone have any other experience with the twitching? In any case, keep an eye on them for aggression.

The twitching you are referring to has to do with establishing dominance and they both do twitch and send messages back and forth. As for the female in the video, she is twitching because she is laying eggs. She is twitching to get the eggs out and attached to the rock.