CaptainRon April 6, 2012 Share April 6, 2012 I know you do a lot of research and reading. You should know then that many tanks go through some sort of algae cycle in addition to the bioligical cycle. Every tank I've ever setup has gone through an algae cycle that lasts several months running through bryopsis, hair algae, that red stuff that blows off and more. But eventually everything settles down, stabilzes and looks good. Time is your only answer. It might look like a hair algae farm for a little while - but just harvest it, do your water changes and let things stabilize or 2 or 4 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roni April 6, 2012 Share April 6, 2012 I think you should just pitch this tank and upgrade to a 300DD. Lol. Why stop there? I hate looking at a tank that's "getting worse" everyday, and everyone basically says there is nothing I can do, just let it get worse and worse, until it's FULL of hair algae and cyano. I just want to start battling it now, versus later, when the tank is overrun. The reason why the tank looks worse is that it's cycling, and it's also dealing with the high bioload from an early time. My first reef was a 58 gallon tank when I was in college. I didn't have the cash to really buy anything so the tank was set up, rock was put in it, and one person gave me 3 single mushrooms that were different colors. Because i had no cash, I just set things up, got kalkwasser going and just watched the tank. That tank had the most amazing sponges, tunicates, etc pop up (good old Walt Smith Fiji live rock transshipped in). I think I added my first coral at 6 months and added a yellow tang at that point as well. That was one of the most stable systems I had and was growing sps well back in the late 90's. The key was patience (forced on me by the ramen noodle college budget). If I were you, here's what I would do. First, stop buying things for the tank. No corals/fish/etc. If you have to, stop looking at online or local stores. Check your water parameters, keep up with your maintainance and do small water changes. Wait 2-3 months and really watch your tank. Learn the little nooks and crannies and watch the microlife. Take pics of the sps and corals you have and document their growth. When things start to grow faster and the corals look pretty happy, consider buying more things. I know there is a desire to have a tank and I know you've done a lot of reading and waiting a while to get your dream setup. Now that it's here, don't miss the journey looking towards the finish line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan April 6, 2012 Share April 6, 2012 All I have to say is "Valium", Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amay121 April 6, 2012 Share April 6, 2012 Like everyone said, just relax and be a little patient. When I first started, I got a great deal on LR, but full of HA. Took me 6 months to get it to die off, but that was only because I was persistant and pullinger the HA during water changes and making sure the water quality was up to snuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowieReefer84 April 6, 2012 Share April 6, 2012 The rock is still dry from BRS, sitting in a box. So I could definitely make that happen. And I don't mind waiting for it to cure in the tank. I'm in no rush to get fish or coral in there. Slow and steady wins the race! Ryan... take your own advice back from January. It has only been 3 months and you have added 19 fish. You should have cured the rock for two months like Roni stated. In the long run it will be fine, and a nice tank. Just back off for a couple months. Keep up with frequent water changes and that's about all I would do. Things will get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan April 6, 2012 Share April 6, 2012 +1 Ryan... take your own advice back from January. It has only been 3 months and you have added 19 fish. You should have cured the rock for two months like Roni stated. In the long run it will be fine, and a nice tank. Just back off for a couple months. Keep up with frequent water changes and that's about all I would do. Things will get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlem April 6, 2012 Share April 6, 2012 (edited) wow... i just skimmed through this thread... sorry to hear of all the losses... and mr. coral (i've cut my loss with him long ago).... when i started my tank two years or so back, i did the same, added like 20+ fish or so within 2-3 months of adding water... got that one "bad" fish and it killed 90% of the fish... i then waited 8+ weeks to add anything else... i also notice you didnt start with any live sand nor live rock... i would say this is why you are having algae out break right now... Non live rock/sand takes a lot long to cycle... keep a positive thought and take it slow, it'll work out, ive been there... Edited April 6, 2012 by hlem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S April 8, 2012 Author Share April 8, 2012 Ok, update on the mr. coral order. My gf got back from spring break today with the camera. good news and bad news. good news, only 2 SPS arrived with half of them dead, and the other half alive. Evan thinks they won't make it, both are looking white today. the "dead" cloves, after sonny said to wait it out, have opened, and after 2 days of looking as dead as came be, are very much alive. so overall, i don't consider 2 SPS frags that may not make it, as a failed order, nor out of 21 frags sent, do i consider 19/21 survival rate (90%) bad at all. here are the 2 SPS that don't look good: the "dead" cloves weren't dead after all. i love these guys: the downsides. there were flat forms, even after mr coral told me they double dip the corals on their end as well. At least 3 of the WYSIWYG "limit 1" corals were not sent - i got 3 different corals (i cant compare the sps i ordered to what i got, since the sps are all brown/white - not colored up like on the mr coral website). photos of what i ordered and what i got, are below. again, not the end of the world, but still a little annoying. lastly, there is no doubt these were fresh cut frags that did not sit in holding tanks for 1 month. a piece of one broke off in transit, so i glued it to a new plug while Evan was here. the next day it looked identical to the 21 frags that arrived - that is, not having been glued to the plug for more than a couple days at most. "limit 1" coral I ordered #1 (rainbow acan): what i received: "limit 1" coral I ordered #2 (zoas): what i received: "limit 1" coral I ordered #3 (green center, green borders favia): what i received (green center, red borders): mr coral told me to call him and we'd figure things out. i will give him a call tomorrow. i know mistakes happen. and nothing here was that big of a deal i suppose (though flatworms alone might be a bigger deal for others of you than me - what's another "cootie" for my tank. it's already the tank of doom!) i also don't mind that a few "limit 1" items were not sent. 21 corals were sent total, for $150. that's a great deal. in the future, if i see something i really want, i will probably just go to the store in person. as for ordering online, i would do it again, knowing to dip, and knowing it might not be perfect. but it's so cheap, i dunno, not a big deal. so all and all, i am not upset today. i am hoping at least 50% of the SPS continue to grow in my tank of death. i am not adding anything for a while. the next thing i add will probably be a colony from sean. i want to try something bigger and see how it does. but again, not until everything stabilizes! i will have 2 more updates later today. 1 for my weekly parameter check and another to post the PAR results for the radions over the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS April 8, 2012 Share April 8, 2012 i am not adding anything for a while. the next thing i add will probably be a colony from sean. i want to try something bigger and see how it does. but again, not until everything stabilizes! Umm, I know you said you won't add anything for a while. I suggest that you make sure you don't have AEFW before you add any more SPS. Even a big colony won't survive AEFW. Give it 3 months and see how your SPS are doing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S April 8, 2012 Author Share April 8, 2012 (edited) Here are the PAR readings for the 2 Radions over my tank. They are running at 100% intensity, 12k. The tank is 36"x36"x27". The radions are 8" from the surface of the water, in the canopy. The distance from the Radions to the top reading is 10" (2" under water); the middle number is 20" from the Radions (12" under water); and the last number is 30" from the Radions (22" under water). These readings were taken in the center of the tank. The readings taken in the corners, or the front or back, were lower. For example, the front bottom readings were 70/90/70; the front middle were 140/170/140; the front top left and right were 130/180/130. Edited April 8, 2012 by Ryan S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S April 8, 2012 Author Share April 8, 2012 Compared to the PAR readings on the left and right in this photo, by Melev, the Radions are substantially lower PAR than a 12k 250w MH bulb. Are they low enough that I should be concerned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowieReefer84 April 8, 2012 Share April 8, 2012 Your order from Mrcoral was a bust. Don't waste another $150. I have had successful orders in the past, but that was mushrooms and zoas. I just think fresh cut wild colonies with tiny frags have little chance. You will regret getting frags less than 1". I did at least... Your PAR numbers look low. The chart below shows what I was getting on a diy 24 led kit... par by mteske1, on Flickr The 1900 was at the fixture out of water. I would not worry though. I think your numbers will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trockafella April 9, 2012 Share April 9, 2012 I would have to agree with several of the above statements.. First and most important. Just stay away from the Mr. coral crap. It was a bust, and its really not that good of a deal. You can order $10-15 frags from dr.macs if you really wanna go that route. If I had spent 150 and got that I would be PISSED.! Dont except anything less than exactly what you paid for. My order wasnt exactly what I ordered and I WILL NEVER BUY FROM THEM AGAIN. Secondly, your PAR does seem a bit low. Are you sure you did the testing right.? I wouldve expected a bit more from those lights.? And lastly, stop knocking your tank and viewing it that way. Its a nice set up, and will become a nice reef. But you have to think positive and be proactive in its success. If you keep thinking its the "tank of doom" then that is exactly what it will become. I see tanks on here that look way worse than yours but they are happy with it. Not to mention your a grown man pouting on a forum, come on Ryan and pick your head up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim April 9, 2012 Share April 9, 2012 Ryan, Apogee has admitted that their PAR meter does not measure LEDs very well. Before you add any additional equipment, like T5s, you should wait for things to settle and see how corals react to your current lighting setup. Vivid Aquariums is growing SPS on the sandbed in a 30" deep tank with Radions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novi April 9, 2012 Share April 9, 2012 Ryan, how far into it from purchase did you notice your PBT started to show signs of ICH? Where did you get it from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S April 9, 2012 Author Share April 9, 2012 Ryan, Apogee has admitted that their PAR meter does not measure LEDs very well. Before you add any additional equipment, like T5s, you should wait for things to settle and see how corals react to your current lighting setup. Vivid Aquariums is growing SPS on the sandbed in a 30" deep tank with Radions. Jim, I forgot that fact about Apogee PAR meters. Maybe that means my numbers aren't as bad as they appear. I wish Vivid would post an update on that tank (and the comparisons to the MH side). Ryan, how far into it from purchase did you notice your PBT started to show signs of ICH? Where did you get it from? Fishie and I both got the PBTs from a liveaquaria order. They were on sale for $29.99 at the time. His died the day of arrival, or maybe it was the day after. Mine lasted, a month I guess? They both had signs the day we got them. Mine went away for a couple of weeks, then returned with a vengeance. Nothing changed in the tank when they returned, they just came back and he was dead shortly thereafter. The sailfin tang died last night, as well as the last anthias. The leaves just 2 last fish in the tank, 2 blue-eyed cardinals. Should I remove them and leave the tank fallow for 12 weeks? If I don't, could they carry the ich indefinitely? Maybe they're immune since they don't have signs? Another question: I have a gray brute trash can (20g) from home depot. It "smells". I am sure that's not normal. I have a MJ600 inside stirring the fresh saltwater 24/7. I suspect it's one of two things. 1) I have a lid on it, keeping it closed, and it just needs to breathe. or 2) the trash can is leeching into the water. could this be poisoning the water and maybe what killed all the fish off? (I found a lengthy thread (see original here, and a later one here) about brute trash cans leeching materials. i believe it was Eric Borneman vs randy holmes and Borneman said yes, randy holmes said no. so i think the final conclusion was unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowieReefer84 April 9, 2012 Share April 9, 2012 Removing those fish and going fallow for 12 weeks sounds like a really great idea! I can't think of a reason for you NOT to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S April 9, 2012 Author Share April 9, 2012 Removing those fish and going fallow for 12 weeks sounds like a really great idea! I can't think of a reason for you NOT to do this. "does anyone want 2 beautiful blue-eyed cardinals that might be carrying ich?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S April 9, 2012 Author Share April 9, 2012 (edited) although, it may not have been ich at all. i think it may have been velvet. the PBT did have some questionable ich looking spots upon arrival, but they went away once i got him home and in my tank. After reading this description, after Evan suggested it looked more like velvet than ich; velvet fits closer. it moved faster than ich, and everything died. Edited April 9, 2012 by Ryan S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der ABT April 9, 2012 Share April 9, 2012 Sorry about the loss of the fish man...i was hoping they would pull thru... what color is your brute???ive seen many of the grey ones used....i used a black one (really cheap and may not have been brute i cant remember)for some rock i was curing a long time ago and it leached black die into the rocks (which i eventually redid in another bucket) i found some food grade contrainers at target that i use now (meant for dog food) but use one as my ato and the other as my water change....they hold about 15 gallons.... im sure others will say which they have had success with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S April 9, 2012 Author Share April 9, 2012 another question since I am tossing them left and right. i read online somewhere (maybe LA's website itself) that they QT all of their fish. i wonder for how long? i mean, are their fish safe to order and put directly into a DT? i know sean QTs for weeks before selling his fish right? so they'd be as "safe" as LA's fish? if not, then i need to get fish from sean from now on, and pay a little more, but save money by not having my own QT tank at home? or should i get a 10g for a QT for ANY fish from LA, Sean, or anyone else, for 12 weeks before putting into the DT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novi April 9, 2012 Share April 9, 2012 I have the 40 Gallon Brute Grey Cans and I havent had any smells or problems with mine? They work great especially with the casters! Sean keeps his fish at 1.09 I do believe for weeks on end. He will show you they eat before you buy and if anything is suspect he will not sell it to you. Very good guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraffitiSpotCorals April 9, 2012 Share April 9, 2012 I would just qt any fish you get no matter what. Also I had the same (actually lower) par readings on my 210 and grew all the sps just fine. Until I realized my ballast was a LITTLE OLD, and replaced it. I guess we will see what difference it makes... As long as everything else is stable and flow is good you will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trockafella April 9, 2012 Share April 9, 2012 Removing those fish and going fallow for 12 weeks sounds like a really great idea! I can't think of a reason for you NOT to do this. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S April 9, 2012 Author Share April 9, 2012 Not to mention your a grown man pouting on a forum I am not pouting mofo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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