Roozens nursery=Terrible

[B216adkins]

Hello friends. Today something very sad happened: My clownfish died :( . I bought this fish from Roozen's nursery. This is a bad place. Some of their tanks are dirty and completely filled with Algae. When I bought the fish, it had a little white dot on it. That dot was referred as ick. The person knew that when he sold it to me. When I called and told him about the fish, he said I should have dumped it into freshwater. My main question was, "How was I suppossed to know?" Their tanks should have been clean. To me, the white dots meant the fish was young. Also when I bought the fish, I asked him and he said it would go away. Now I can't get a refund or anything. Today is a VERY sad day. If anybody has a clownfish for sale, please let me know

[Jan]

I'm so sorry to hear about your clownfish. You should never purchase a fish that is not 100% healthy unless you think you can nurse it back to health and if that fails are ready to accept a loss. Roozens is a great place to find unique items. Some LFS may even purchase from Roozens. It is not a place for an inexperienced reefer. One really needs to know what they're looking for in terms of illness and disease when they buy anywhere but especially from a place like Roozens. I don't know if they QT their fish. Most all of the salt water livestock there come in directly from different parts of the world. They usually wild caught. I'm sure BRK or any of our other sponsors has clownfish. If not I'm certain they can get one for you.

[extreme_tooth_decay]

I find it unacceptable to hear someone calling a business "terriable" because they knowingly bought a sick fish and it died. Don't buy sick fish. If you do, don't blame anyone but yourself if/when it dies.

 

I have seen sick fish at EVERY LFS. No more at Roozen's than at any other. Less per capita, actually.

 

I also think it is actually unlikely that your fish died from ich. One spot of ich would not kill a fish so quickly. Ich takes a long time to kill a fish, and usually the fish would be smothered by ich. Often ich is blamed for a dead fish when it was not ich that killed it. How long was it before it died? How long has your tank been set up, what are your params?

Edited November 1, 2010 by extreme_tooth_decay

[BowieReefer84]

I find it unacceptable to hear someone calling a business "terriable" because they knowingly bought a sick fish and it died. Don't buy sick fish. If you do, don't blame anyone but yourself if/when it dies.

 

I have seen sick fish at EVERY LFS. No more at Roozen's than at any other. Less per capita, actually.

I think Brandon was trying to say the guy told him it was ich AFTER it died on him... He didn't purposefully buy a sick fish.

 

Brandon, as Jan said try stores like BRK. Roozens is better if you know what to look for and what to stay away from. I know you are just beginning in the hobby, and Roozens may not be your best bet at this point in time. It is always a good idea to ask them to feed the fish before you buy it as well. Make sure it is readily accepting food.

 

Don't get too frustrated. I am sure 100% of the people on here have lost a fish at some point. Especially in the beginning.

[Coral Hind]

Brandon,

 

Chalk that purchase up to experience. Now when you buy the next fish you will know what to look for. Make sure it doesn't have white spots or damage to fins and scales. Ask to see it eat before you buy it.

 

As for Roozens, I shop there because they have a selection of fish not found at most stores. I stopped in there two weeks ago and the fish selection was still great but there were very few corals at all in the place.

 

I have a healthy A. clarkii you can have to replace the fish that died.

[Jan]

I have to clarify my post.

If you choose to purchase a sick fish because you want to nurse it back to health you should do this in a QT ONLY. introducing sick fish into your main system can and often will infect other fish. ick is a nightmare for most of us.

 

I'm so sorry to hear about your clownfish. You should never purchase a fish that is not 100% healthy unless you think you can nurse it back to health and if that fails are ready to accept a loss. Roozens is a great place to find unique items. Some LFS may even purchase from Roozens. It is not a place for an inexperienced reefer. One really needs to know what they're looking for in terms of illness and disease when they buy anywhere but especially from a place like Roozens. I don't know if they QT their fish. Most all of the salt water livestock there come in directly from different parts of the world. They usually wild caught. I'm sure BRK or any of our other sponsors has clownfish. If not I'm certain they can get one for you.

[zygote2k]

Brandon-

Start reading some fish books before you buy another fish. Know what you're getting into before heading out.

[BowieReefer84]

As Zygote said books are a very good idea. However, knowing that you are in highschool with limited funds. Read all the articles you can find on live aquaria - http://www.liveaquar...ral_pagesid=176 Do NOT rely on forum posts, as you will get a lot of "opinions." Live aquaria is a good source of solid factual information. And best of all it is free.

 

Start with this one on ich - http://www.liveaquaria.com/PIC/article.cfm?aid=81

Edited November 1, 2010 by BowieReefer84

[Coral Hind]

^^ Very good advice.

 

 

 

Don't get too frustrated. I am sure 100% of the people on here have lost a fish at some point. Especially in the beginning.

Oh yes we have and still do. Just to make Brandon feel better I'll post my loss from yesterday. This Queen angel was DOA after a 15 minute ride home.

 

[Brian Ward]

Brandon,

We seem to have semiannual debates about Roozens on here and I'm happy to say that this one is more civilized than most of the ones in the past have been.

 

Roozens moves a TON of product. There is no QT and looking at the tanks it's hard to imagine that anything is healthy. But remember that algae isn't bad for fish. There's nothing wrong with a dirty tank except that it looks ugly. The system at Roozens has been established for a VERY long time. They do most of their sales wholesale (to other vendors) and you will find fish there that you will never see in stock at another LFS. But you need to know what you're doing when you go there. You must know the signs of a healthy vs. unhealthy fish, you need to know signs of disease, and you must be very picky and willing to do a proper QT (of course you should do these things no matter where you buy from). Something else to note is that fish sometimes just die. It can be due to a variety of things including just the stress of moving from the ocean to several different tanks - usually in a matter of a week or so. Losses unfortunately come with the hobby, but as you gain more experience you will learn the warning signs and be able to take corrective action.

[B216adkins]

Thanks to everybody who gave positive and negative information. I am reading more about this. I have just went to Borders and got a book about marine fish and disease.

[B216adkins]

^^ Very good advice.

 

 

 

 

Oh yes we have and still do. Just to make Brandon feel better I'll post my loss from yesterday. This Queen angel was DOA after a 15 minute ride home.

 

Sorry to hear you lost one as well. How do you dispose of a fish that size? Do you just throw it in the trash?

[B216adkins]

Brandon,

 

Chalk that purchase up to experience. Now when you buy the next fish you will know what to look for. Make sure it doesn't have white spots or damage to fins and scales. Ask to see it eat before you buy it.

 

As for Roozens, I shop there because they have a selection of fish not found at most stores. I stopped in there two weeks ago and the fish selection was still great but there were very few corals at all in the place.

 

I have a healthy A. clarkii you can have to replace the fish that died.

 

 

Ok, thanks. I would love to get your fish. Please message me your number

[Coral Hind]

PM sent.

[armymedic]

I am probably going to get a nasty gram from tom over this but im going to chime in on brandon's message.

 

First of all he if you really think telling someone that is just starting the hobby to expect to know everything some of the members have "learned" over the last 1000 years, then you might need to look take a look at yourself first, not to mention hes only like 15 years old. You want to pick on someone older send me a PM, i might address it a bit different.

 

there are alot of folks on here with really good ideas and opinions and i can not thank them enough, however some tend to shoot then possibly ask questions later. I realize you have been doing this for quite some time but you really need to be a bit more tactful when you formulate your opinions.

 

For those who have a tendency of getting lost on these forums, read the sub-forum heading NEW TO THE HOBBY!!!!!!!!

 

if you have nothing nice to say....fill in the blank

[Origami]

I don't send nastygrams.

 

Brandon, sorry for the loss. It happens. It's sad and it's often expensive. Just look at Coral Hind's loss. Bummer.

 

Transporting fish - especially wild caught fish - from their origination to your tank is very, very stressful. We, as hobbyists, probably only see a fraction of the losses. For that matter, our LFS's probably only see a fraction of the losses. Think about it for a second: If wild caught, the fish first has to survive the process of being caught and hauled back to shore, probably in a small catch bin that's overcrowded and unstable (temperature and waste products). Then, it has to survive the transfer and temporary hold facility - probably a day or two - maybe even a week - there. Then, it's into bags and onto a plane to LA or some other port for handling and distribution to wholesalers. Add another two or three days there for sorting and some recovery time, maybe more. Then, it's off to retailers, or in some cases, secondary distribution. I wish it weren't the case, but there are undoubtedly losses at every stage. Those fish that do survive are probably really stressed. If your LFS doesn't quarantine but, instead, "flips" the fish (sells it quickly), you're losses will be higher than if your LFS were to institute a solid QT process that is designed to relieve stress and to address disease. Be aware that we have LFS's of both types around here - those that institute good a good QT process and those that don't. Those that don't may sell the fish at a much lower price, so it seems like you're getting a deal. As long as you're able to accept this fact and the possible attendant losses, it may, in fact, be a good deal. However, you need to go into this situation with open eyes.

 

Next time you're shopping around, ask your LFS what their livestock handling procedures are. If they QT, ask them about the process and the time that their fish are in QT. If you see a fish in QT that you like, you may be able to put a downpayment on it and come back in a week to pick it up. If it's in good shape and eating, you will probably have a healthy fish. Understand what salinity the fish has been held at - especially when you buy it. If it's still in hyposaline ("hypo") conditions when you pick it up, then you're acclimation process will be a bit more stressful than if the LFS took care of this for you.

 

Get to know your LFS and ask questions. You'll still suffer losses, but hopefully they'll be much fewer.

 

Good luck in the hobby and, by all means, read. There's a lot of good stuff out there that can help fill in the gaps of your knowledge - gaps that can, if left unfilled or unrecognized, can have you learning the hard (and expensive) way. I'd hate to have you become discouraged simply because you didn't know to ask the right question in this, or in some other, forum.

[dakotasreef]

Sorry to hear about your fish loss. There will be times in this hobby that this happens. It has happened to us all at one point or another. We can just try to learn from this and move on.

 

You will learn in time to know what to look for in the furture. Even then there is still no guarantee that the livestock is 100% healthy. Sometimes they just do not make it into your tank or only live a short while.

 

 

Just remember to enjoy the hobby!

[Jan]

Brandon,

Make sure you read about proper acclimation techniques too. Some fish can handle shorter acclimation periods while others require very long acclimation periods. You can find information on all of this stuff free by doing google searches for "how to properly acclimate marinefish", disease and parasite of marine fish", etc. check out the google images to see what pics of what you've searched for. You may also want to check out places like livaquaria, www.wetwebmedia.com and www.saltwaterfish.com. they have great information on their sites about the hobby and specific fish, inverts, etc.. Save your money for buying fish.

Edited November 2, 2010 by Jan

[LanglandJoshua]

Brandon,

Make sure you read about proper acclimation techniques too. Some fish can handle shorter acclimation periods while others require very long acclimation periods. You can find information on all of this stuff free by doing google searches for "how to properly acclimate marinefish", disease and parasite of marine fish", etc. check out the google images to see what pics of what you've searched for. You may also want to check out places like livaquaria, www.wetwebmedia.com and www.saltwaterfish.com. they have great information on their sites about the hobby and specific fish, inverts, etc.. Save your money for buying fish.

 

 

I wanna just say, I love saltwaterfish.com. They have great information and background on their fish, they used to have a very good forum as well but I cant seem to get on it lately. Most of the prices are good, and their acclimation instructional video even got the messege through my thick nubie skull. Two thubs up!

[davelin315]

Sorry to hear you lost one as well. How do you dispose of a fish that size? Do you just throw it in the trash?

You eat it! I always said if one of my showpiece fish dies I'll eat them...

[quazi]

I think Roozens is a LFS for very experienced hobbyists. They move a lot of "product" and caveat emptor rules. I find that I would rather deal with other LFS that are less expensive or on par or provide so much better service that the extra price is a bargain in comparison.

 

 

 

My favs: BRK, F&F, and Aquarium One. None too close to you. I am sure others have their favs that are closer.

[ErikS]

Well really we all kind of make excuses for Roozens, myself included - they are what they are. Excuses like "move a lot of product" etc.........but they are pretty irresponsible. They don't really care how/where a fish comes from, they don't really care about survival rate......it's a pretty long list.

 

My "question" - they move a lot of product? Where's it going? (rhetorical) You get the idea.

 

Are they alone in this? Heck no, not by a long shot. How many stores you think really quarantine fish? Make sure they're eating?

 

Some will claim it & I'll toss out the BS flag.

 

You want a pretty certain quality? You'll need to shop places like Divers Den. Known fish, from an known source, in known condition. They'll even tell you exactly how long they've been there, what they're eating, where they were sourced. They're cherry picked fish. Ain't cheap though. A quick check shows a powder blue running $129.00 vs the $39.99 regular product @ their other operation. You just need to ask yourself which will really be cheaper in the long run.

 

How long you figure the LFS will be in business selling $200 powder blue tangs? (adding markup to cover added expenses of running the store) when the competition is selling $50 - $75 PBTs? Answer? About 5 minutes.

 

Ultimately it's the consumer (us)..........step up & pay the coin = we'll get a better product. If we were willing to pay the $$$ the store could afford to put in more effort. I mean really who the heck can really run a business (make a profit) making that kind of effort for the prices we're willing to pay? That's why Dr Foster & Smith has two "stores". One for those who want a quality product, the other for those who want fish.

 

Roozens "gets away" with because there's a demand - lots of fish @ cheap prices.

Edited December 10, 2010 by ErikS

[GaryL]

Well really we all kind of make excuses for Roozens, myself included - they are what they are. Excuses like "move a lot of product" etc.........but they are pretty irresponsible. They don't really care how/where a fish comes from, they don't really care about survival rate......it's a pretty long list.

 

My "question" - they move a lot of product? Where's it going? (rhetorical) You get the idea.

 

Are they alone in this? Heck no, not by a long shot. How many stores you think really quarantine fish? Make sure they're eating?

 

Some will claim it & I'll toss out the BS flag.

 

You want a pretty certain quality? You'll need to shop places like Divers Den. Known fish, from an known source, in known condition. They'll even tell you exactly how long they've been there, what they're eating, where they were sourced. They're cherry picked fish. Ain't cheap though. A quick check shows a powder blue running $129.00 vs the $39.99 regular product @ their other operation. You just need to ask yourself which will really be cheaper in the long run.

 

How long you figure the LFS will be in business selling $200 powder blue tangs? (adding markup to cover added expenses of running the store) when the competition is selling $50 - $75 PBTs? Answer? About 5 minutes.

 

Ultimately it's the consumer (us)..........step up & pay the coin = we'll get a better product. If we were willing to pay the $$$ the store could afford to put in more effort. I mean really who the heck can really run a business (make a profit) making that kind of effort for the prices we're willing to pay? That's why Dr Foster & Smith has two "stores". One for those who want a quality product, the other for those who want fish.

 

Roozens "gets away" with because there's a demand - lots of fish @ cheap prices.

 

HE"S ALIVE!!! lol

 

something reefmon told me long ago "Wanna know how to make a small fortune in the reef hobby? start with a big one..."

[extreme_tooth_decay]

More money does not always mean better quality, and Roozen's is a perfect example.

 

The fish I have selected there are on par with fish from anywhere else, and much lower price.

 

Of the many fish I have bought there over the years, one example is an Achilles I bought for $38 or $48. Perfect condition, would have cost $100 anywhere else. Lived for years until I sold him. For me, paying more for no reason is nonsense. If you know what you are doing, the place can be a gold mine.

Edited December 10, 2010 by extreme_tooth_decay

[losking44]

how are the price