alternative for drilling an established tank?

[treesprite]

So, what about building a rim around top of the tank about 3 inches and drilling a couple drain holes in that? Would have to be heavy acrylic to glass, able to handle the top couple inches of surface water, and I guess would need to be braced. Whatcha all think?

[Integral9]

That should work, but I think it would be hard to do well enough to keep it from looking shoddy. The acryllic wouldn't have to be that thick either as it's only supporting the water above it. But as a rule I wouldn't use anything less than 1/4" acryllic for anything that you didn't want to flex too much. I'm using an 1/8" piece as a cover on my 30 gal and I have to flip it over every day to keep the bend from reaching the water.

 

The only thing I'm thinking is that fish / snails / etc would be easily lost down the gutter unless you had a fence or "gutter guard". Oh, and you would be exceeding the rest of the tanks design specs. You could cause your tank to break.

[dbartco]

so none of the closed loop options in the previous thread that allowed you not to drill the tank were feasable?

[ErikS]

Tough to beat this for $36.95

[treesprite]

so none of the closed loop options in the previous thread that allowed you not to drill the tank were feasable?

 

The two don't equate. I still need a drain to the sump either way. All I want is a couple drain holes that I won't have to worry about breaking my tank while there's stuff in it (actually just plain breaking it), then get rid of the hot box.

 

One of my 10g qts has a deep chip in the wall seam so I have no problem using that to do a prototype.

 

The question is design. I wouldn't want something "shoddy" looking. I would need something my light fixure legs can rest on. I am thinking about whether or not such a thing could beattatched to the inside edge of the existing tank rim. Maybe thick acrylic which has like an "alley" in it or something?? GROOVE - that's the word I'm looking for... took my while to remember it. Then the acrylic strips would rest on that rim but also have a bit that can be afixed to the glass that is still hidden by the tank's existing rim... the rim around my tank is about an inch below that "ledge", so all seams would be unseen. I would have to get someone to do the cutting for me.

 

Oh here we go... just finished making this crude diagram....

 

 

Glue+sealant or whatever would then be on both top and underside of the ledge, and on the glass surface below the ledge (but above the lower edge of the trim). Sounds like it would be secure to me.

Edited April 23, 2008 by treesprite

[treesprite]

actually if I had a canopy, the add-on could be hidden by it

[Origami]

Curious, Forrest. If all you're doing is trying to get an overflow to your sump and you don't want to drill your tank, why are you not considering a siphoning overflow box? Or is that what you're trying to remove (the "hot" box) with this approach?

Edited April 23, 2008 by Origami2547

[Almon]

Tough to beat this for $36.95

 

I agree. The overflow is a perfectly reasonable solution. Keep it Simple.

[treesprite]

Curious, Forrest. If all you're doing is trying to get an overflow to your sump and you don't want to drill your tank, why are you not considering a siphoning overflow box? Or is that what you're trying to remove (the "hot" box) with this approach?

 

Trying to get rid of having to use the hang-on because it's a pain in the rear and I keep worrying about floods and is very noisy. They work very well if one puts aside those drawbacks. The one I'm using is a CPR continuous siphon with two 1-1/2" bulkheads, which uses an aqualifter pump. The Aqualifter once caused a flood due to being clogged, caused a flood when it just simply stopped working, and caused a couple when it was bumped a little which caused the airline to detatch from the nipple through which the aqualifter sucks air that would otherwise break the siphon.

[Highland Reefer]

I agree with you Forrest about the siphon braking. Been there & done that. Drill your tank is my .02

[treesprite]

I agree with you Forrest about the siphon braking. Been there & done that. Drill your tank is my .02

 

That is the problem. I have no plan on emptying it. Now, people have said in another thread that tanks can be drilled while still having things in them, so I was thinking maybe I could get a volunteer, but then some think that it's too risky. I'm just trying to come up with non-risky alternatives until next time I get a tank which will most likely not be for several years. Nothing worse than breaking a tank while drilling than breaking a tank with livestock and water in it while drilling. I absolutely can't afford a new tank... I got the one I have in a trade.

[dhogan]

If you're going to all that trouble (ie bulding some acrylic frame which probably won't work) then just drain the tank and drill, you won't regret it.

[treesprite]

If you're going to all that trouble (ie bulding some acrylic frame which probably won't work) then just drain the tank and drill, you won't regret it.

 

i'm not going to take the whole tank down just to drill it - that's the whole problem.

[Highland Reefer]

Either drill the tank or install a better overflow siphon box. The extension sounds doomed from the start. I agree with everybody else.

[jhn]

Try a lifereef overflow box, they're not cheap, however they are reliable. I've had one on my 70gal. for the past 5 years or so and it has yet to lose siphon.

[Origami]

Forrest, you have a pretty innovative idea and I think that's pretty cool that you're thinking outside the (overflow) box. But I have to agree that you're best course is down one of two tried-and-true paths: Drill your tank or use an overflow box (which you have). After all, the extension idea could still fail if one of those add-on seams failed over time because of thermal expansion mismatches, repeated pressure of reaching over and into the tank. In that case, you could be looking at even more water being released. Not good at all.

 

I've got a CPR overflow on my 90 but really wish now that I'd listened and had the tank drilled (the problem was that I initially wasn't intending on using a sump but quickly decided to add one after I'd set up the tank). I've even considered partially draining the tank and drilling it in place but I don't have much room behind the tank to get a drill and bit in unless I get a drill with a right-angle chuck. In my case, my overflow is actually rather quiet (It seems sometimes that I've done a lot to get it that way, too - going so far as to re-invent what I later found out was already known as a Stockman standpipe). Not whisper silent, though, like what Bob (Lanman) has. Also, I've not had problems with my line to my aqualifter coming loose (I think I'm going to go put a nylon tie wrap on it now, for extra security!). I also try to keep my aqualifter and the airline on my maintenance schedule so I'm not surprised. Finally, the return pump section of my sump and display's water level, as well as the water level in the sump and of the siphon-break in my tank's return line, and the are such that either a loss of siphon or a loss of power (respectively) will not cause an overflow of either - there's enough capacity in each to handle whatever comes along. The only way I should get water on the floor is if there's a physical failure of the plumbing.

 

I have heard nothing but good things about Lifereef overflow boxes, though I've never owned one. If you want to mitigate the risks of future spills, I'd consider taking two actions. First, re-evaluate how your water levels in both your display and your sump are set up and size them appropriately to make sure you have capacity to deal with power outages and overflow failure. Second, if your concerned about aqualifter failure, get an overflow box that has a history and reputation of maintaining siphon long term without one (such as a Lifereef). The only reason that I see for having an aqualifter on my overflow is because the water velocity through the broad "tube" of the CPR design is not quick enough to clear the air that inevitably gathers at the top of the box and which can break siphon.

 

Good luck. I look forward to hearing what direction you will take.

[dtfleming]

+1 for the link to the hurricane filter overflow box. works great and breaks a siphon if power failure and will pick it back up again. You just have to clean the overflow once in awhile.

[Rascal]

Agree with what has been said about the seems for your extension idea. There is nothing (that I know of) that will make a strong watertight bond between acrylic and glass, so you'd really be relying on the strength of the bond between the acrylic extension and plastic rim of your tank. I imagine you'd have to use Weld-on to create that bond, and I certainly wouldn't want to work with that stuff right on top of my tank.

 

Another consideration that hasn't been brought up yet is what effect this would have on the seems at the bottom of your tank. When you increase the depth of your tank, you will also increase the amount of water pressure at the bottom of it. Take a look some standard tank dimensions and the thickness of the material used in those tanks, and you'll notice that the single biggest factor on how thick the material has to be is the height of the tank. You may not be increasing it all that much, but it is something to think about.

 

i'm not going to take the whole tank down just to drill it - that's the whole problem.

 

I don't think you would. Drilling holes in glass can seem daunting until you've done it once, and then you realize how easy it is. For a tank like yours (glass less than 1/2" thick I'd imagine), it should take no more than 15-20 minutes to drill two holes and install the bulkheads.

 

You don't have to drain your tank all the way. I would only drain it to 1/4 - 1/3 of its current level. This should leave plenty of room for your fish to be OK (better than catching them and sticking them all in a 5 gallon bucket anyway), and any corals or anything else left on the rock will be more than fine for the short amount of time it would take you to do this project. (Think of those pictures of reefs exposed during low tide - baking in tropical sun for hours). Another good tip is put a piece of bubble wrap on the surface of the water and tape it to the side of the tank below where you will be drilling the hole. This will keep most of the glass dust from falling into the water. For the inevitable pieces that do fall into your tank . . . don't worry about them. At worst you will have just added a teaspoon or two of silicone-based sand.

 

Another option would be to add an external overflow box like this: http://www.wamas.org/forums/index.php?show...amp;hl=external

 

A lot more work than just a couple of bulkheads, but probably still less than what you are thinking of.

 

Good luck whatever you decide.

[treesprite]

I had asked in that other thread about a volunteer for drilling since it was said that it could be done without emptying, but then there were comments about risk that led me to believe that the risk is relatively high. If someone can do it for me with a VERY low risk factor, I would have it drilled. There's not a ton of room behind the tank but drilling on the left end is ok with me.

[phisigs79]

I say if you drain it almost all the way down and keep it lubed well that it should be a problem to drill. Is there a chance it will break? Sure just like there is a chance that it will brake without water in it. Take your time and let the bit do the work. I have drilled maybe 5-6 tanks without ever breaking one.

[treesprite]

I would have to have someone do it for me.... I have a hard enough time drilling a hole in wood perfectly straight down.

[tbittner]

Try a lifereef overflow box, they're not cheap, however they are reliable. I've had one on my 70gal. for the past 5 years or so and it has yet to lose siphon.

 

I concur, I have had one for a year and it's never failed, ever... And we had a couple multiple hour power outage. With the silencer option, you can't hear it running.

 

With that being said though, I would also much prefer to have the tank drilled. I'm not willing to take that risk with thousands of dollars of livestock that is all doing great though. So my next best option was the LifeReef overflow box. I also have two of the EShopps boxes (DFS sells them now) and they too have never failed.

[treesprite]

Unfortunately my pockets don't allow for replacing stuff that isn't broken.

 

I really didn't think so much about drilling until recently when I got a drilled and undrilled 20 for sump and fuge to replace using a single 38 for both - I have trully been enlightened.

 

OH OH and DUH!! I have an EMPTY NON-COMMITTED 38g, the SUDDENLY I hear calling "drill me"!! WHO IS willing to volunteer to DRILL this 38???

 

WHY did I not think of it before?

[treesprite]

PROSPECTIVE VOLUNTEER:

 

I PROMISE that I would NOT be upset if the tank were by slim chance to break during drilling! You would be free of liability 100%. To demonstrate, here is the tank's history:

 

The only reason I got it - used - many years ago - was because I needed to let my amyloodinium-infested 45 go fallow. Several months later I emptied it and it sat empty a couple years. Then I made it into a Monongohela (sp?) forest biotope terrarium full of dirt, rocks, plants, moss, branches.... then the pond in it and a small hole in the cover turned it into a mosquito farm, so once again I emptied it and left it empty another couple of years. Then it became the sump/fuge. Then I listed it here for trade when trying to not have to buy the 2 20s. THen I ended up buying the 20s, so here agian the 38 sits empty. I was going to temporarily make a waterfall/river out of it until another use came along or I simply get/got bored and/or lazy and leave/left it empty again.

[treesprite]

no one willing to do it?