Vendors in the MD area

[dhoch]

Well I've been to a bunch including the new ones, and I just want to say something (and maybe the'll even read this).

 

We need a store that caters to the serious hobbyist this side of the beltway. We need a place to get the items the standard stores do not carry, but we need (bulkheads, higher end skimmers and reactors, T5 HO bulbs and setups, plumbing parts)

 

We need a store that carries the items we demand (salifert test kits, URI VHO bulbs).

 

There are plenty of stores up and down this county and the next that carry Fastest, Coralife, CPR, etc... we need the high end stuff.

 

Also we do use the web, and while I for one am willing to pay a little more to buy at a local store... a 50% markup over what I can buy the same piece for online is not going to cut it.

 

Just my 2 cents, and maybe I'm just ranting....

 

Dave

[Gadgets]

We need a store that caters to the serious hobbyist this side of the beltway. We need a place to get the items the standard stores do not carry, but we need (bulkheads, higher end skimmers and reactors, T5 HO bulbs and setups, plumbing parts)

 

We need a store that carries the items we demand (salifert test kits, URI VHO bulbs).

 

Also we do use the web, and while I for one am willing to pay a little more to buy at a local store... a 50% markup over what I can buy the same piece for online is not going to cut it.

 

Just my 2 cents, and maybe I'm just ranting....

 

Dave

 

Dave, IMO, you have just decribed Aquarium One! Come by on Sunday, Thursday, or Tuesday so we can talk.

[Armson]

Well I've been to a bunch including the new ones, and I just want to say something (and maybe the'll even read this).

 

We need a store that caters to the serious hobbyist this side of the beltway. We need a place to get the items the standard stores do not carry, but we need (bulkheads, higher end skimmers and reactors, T5 HO bulbs and setups, plumbing parts)

 

We need a store that carries the items we demand (salifert test kits, URI VHO bulbs).

 

There are plenty of stores up and down this county and the next that carry Fastest, Coralife, CPR, etc... we need the high end stuff.

 

Also we do use the web, and while I for one am willing to pay a little more to buy at a local store... a 50% markup over what I can buy the same piece for online is not going to cut it.

 

Just my 2 cents, and maybe I'm just ranting....

 

Dave

 

 

 

I completely agree with Dave. There needs to be a store that carries the Higher end stuff like Deltec, T5 lighting, And those big long URI bulbs that always cost an arm & a leg to get shipped to you. This store should also have all those stupid litte things us reefers need like plastic hose clamps, Bulk heads and Glass Drill bits. They should also have really big aquacultured Maxima Clams!

 

 

DAVE,

 

I wish there was a store like that in the DC metro Area but I guess all we can do is just hope one day we will.

 

Don't worry Dave I will buy you a round at MACNA and we can talk about how great Blue ribb.....errrr How great it would be to have a shop that catered to us reefers.

 

 

-Byron

[dhoch]

Chris,

 

I was there today (errr yesterday) In fact it was that visit that prompted this thread... I found a shop that carried pretty much the same stuff as everyone else (I didn't see bulkheads, high end skimmers, plumbing and/or URI bulbs or salifert)...

 

I saw fastest, red sea testkits, 4' or 5' bulbs were the longest I saw, and they were not URI/UVL (remember many of the more experienced hobbysts also have bigger, read 6', tanks) I saw all the additives I'd pretty much never tell anybody to use on their tanks.

 

Maxijet 1200 powerheads were $29.95 (or somewhere in the high 20s, they are only $18 at that fish place)... you lost a sale on those just on the price... a guy there picked one up, looked at it and put it back... that sends a message to people.

 

The livestock setup was nice, but it really needed some work. Flow was poor, and I think the water stood a good chance of being less than properly oxygenated.

 

Look you guys are new and you might improve, in fact probably will (based on a number of the employees), but it was not what I expected when I first walked in.

 

Dave

 

Then I went out to BRK and saw 6' UVL/URI bulbs

[Charlie97L]

dave-

 

i talked with dimitri (owner of Aquarium One) extensively the other day, and he is planning to implement a lot of what you suggest. Now will he stock deltec? Probably not. I mentioned teh plumbing specifically, and they are planning on having a section.

 

I too, have noticed the weird flow in tanks, and Im' giving them the benefit of the doubt, that they're working out the kinks in the system.

 

I for one, will give them a chance. They've only been open 3 weeks, and just got their first real saltwater order in on Thursday.

 

I do agree though, that they if they can pare down to cater to the more serious hobbyist, it will bring them a lot of business. it does make the store a bit, inaccessible to walk in traffic... but all the marine geeks will come out of the woodwork and become regulars.

 

like i said, i'm going to give them a chance... they seem more than willing to take our input to help shape the store to be the best it can be.

 

I completely agree with Dave. There needs to be a store that carries the Higher end stuff like Deltec, T5 lighting, And those big long URI bulbs that always cost an arm & a leg to get shipped to you. This store should also have all those stupid litte things us reefers need like plastic hose clamps, Bulk heads and Glass Drill bits. They should also have really big aquacultured Maxima Clams!

 

 

DAVE,

 

I wish there was a store like that in the DC metro Area but I guess all we can do is just hope one day we will.

 

Don't worry Dave I will buy you a round at MACNA and we can talk about how great Blue ribb.....errrr How great it would be to have a shop that catered to us reefers.

-Byron

 

hahah. dude, catharpin isn't DC Metro! especially to guys who live on the baltimore side of the beltway. I love BRK, and I live right on the DC/md/VA borders in bethesda, and it still takes me almost an hour to get to BRK. worth, it definitely, but it's impossible to just stop by for some cyclopeeze.

[Guest Larry-T]

Let me provide a dissent.

 

As someone who has previously owned an aquarium store, let me point out that the "high end" hobbyist who requires specialty equipment is a miniscule part of the overall hobby. Placing some of these items, such as 6' or longer bulbs (lots of breakage risk), Salifert kits (hazardous materials liability plus high price), specialty plumbing supplies or glass cutting drill bits (very infrequent need) on the shelf is risky (If I were looking for true "high end" testing supplies, I'd buy Lamotte rather than Salifert anyway.)

 

Add that, the fact that the "high end" hobbyists are the ones who will order online or demand that the retailer match an unreasonable price from a discounter that doesn't have to maintain a local presence, and you have a prescription for business failure.

 

I was always willing to special-order such things for my customers and could usually match what they would have to pay for mail order (pre-Internet) plus shipping. Since I had a deposit there was no risk and I didn't have to waste shelf space on products that would only turn once or twice a year.

[scott711]

Dave,

 

Not to be a bad guy, but if you take the price of that pet place 18.99 + shipping (~8.99)=27.98, what Aquarium One would sell it for is 29.99 - 10% Wamas discount = 28.35, difference is about 37 cents and your supporting a local place.

 

As far as the higher end equipment goes we can get that pretty quickly and I know the owner will carry a few higher end things, but like Larry said a lot of people buy online. (we will be getting salifert tests kits this week)

 

As far as the circulation goes, your right there isn't a suffiecient amount YET, we are working on that (believe me!) We are working on ironing out a lot of things and seeing what works and what doesn't. We are always open to constructive critisism or a pat on the back

 

Scott

[Guest Larry-T]

Not to be a bad guy, but if you take the price of that pet place 18.99 + shipping (~8.99)=27.98, what Aquarium One would sell it for is 29.99 - 10% Wamas discount = 28.35, difference is about 37 cents and your supporting a local place.

 

That assumes that Aquarium One can get the product for the same price That Pet Place pays, which may not always be true. My general policy is that if they can come within 10% of what I would pay at That Pet Place (including the shipping) I buy local.

 

Right now, my local stores are Tropical Fish World and Scales. I'm going to check out Aquarium One tomorrow, and I also sometimes drop in at The Fish Factory. Any other store would be too far to be considered "local" from my home.

[dhoch]

Larry,

 

Look I understand that the store has to make the bulk of it's money somewhere and I don't have a problem with them stocking stuff for others, but how come BRK can stock the stuff I need, and when I go other places they have stores that do it there, but in all the stores in MD, they don't carry the stuff... WHY??? It doesn't make sense... There is a market for it, but no one is will to capture it (it may not be big, but for my 2 cents BRK has built a loyalty and is willing to do a lot to please it's customers).

 

Also as for the shipping cost, I understand that with teh shipping cost for a single item it's more expensive, but who goes in (or gets shipped) a single item... it's multiple items.

 

And I never expected them to match the price, just be close (and a 50% markup is not close)... Also typically at stores markup is consistant.

 

One of my really local LFS sells the Turbo floter 1000 for $350 and I can get i online for $250, again an almost 50% markup (and it's consistant)... why?

 

I mean I could open a store, order from that fish place (bulk order) and probably undercut them in price... that doesn't make sense to me...

 

I understand loyalty... I drive out to BRK ~1/month, because I belive in them and what they are doing... If there was a store in MD that did things the way I think they should I would be their loyal customer as well...

 

Dave

[Guest Larry-T]

Dave,

 

I will bet you any amount you care to name that BRK, for example, pays quite a bit less per square foot than a store in Gaithersburg or Rockville, especially if you add in all applicable expenses. Also, stores in highly urbanized areas tend to be a lot smaller and need to turn the product more often to succeed.

 

Also, BRK, as I understand it, does not depend upon the aquarium trade as their sole source of income. This comes with more space in far-out areas.

 

 

Larry,

 

Look I understand that the store has to make the bulk of it's money somewhere and I don't have a problem with them stocking stuff for others, but how come BRK can stock the stuff I need, and when I go other places they have stores that do it there, but in all the stores in MD, they don't carry the stuff... WHY??? It doesn't make sense... There is a market for it, but no one is will to capture it (it may not be big, but for my 2 cents BRK has built a loyalty and is willing to do a lot to please it's customers).

 

Also as for the shipping cost, I understand that with teh shipping cost for a single item it's more expensive, but who goes in (or gets shipped) a single item... it's multiple items.

 

And I never expected them to match the price, just be close (and a 50% markup is not close)... Also typically at stores markup is consistant.

 

One of my really local LFS sells the Turbo floter 1000 for $350 and I can get i online for $250, again an almost 50% markup (and it's consistant)... why?

 

I mean I could open a store, order from that fish place (bulk order) and probably undercut them in price... that doesn't make sense to me...

 

I understand loyalty... I drive out to BRK ~1/month, because I belive in them and what they are doing... If there was a store in MD that did things the way I think they should I would be their loyal customer as well...

 

Dave

[flowerseller]

Larry,

 

I mean I could open a store, order from that fish place (bulk order) and probably undercut them in price... that doesn't make sense to me...

 

Dave

You're deffinatly not a merchant.

 

How about those Nationals?.............

[scott711]

or the redskins?

[jamesbuf]

 

Also we do use the web, and while I for one am willing to pay a little more to buy at a local store... a 50% markup over what I can buy the same piece for online is not going to cut it.

 

You must be talking about Congressional Aquarium. I was looking at their lights and they were easily twice as much compared to the online stores. Several other products too. I agree though, I'm also willing to pay a little extra to support the LFS, just not twice as much.

[jason the filter freak]

This is shaping up to be a pretty good argment, I'd liek to see more on a decent LFS in maryland, as long as I have space to QT sadly I find Higher quality specimens, at cheaper prices than most of my other LFS

[cbashaw]

Dave,

 

We have been working to improve our stock as well as get a feel for what everyone wants. Salifert test kits came in today and we are working to get a larger selection of bulbs in soon.

[cbashaw]

Dave,

 

We have been working to improve our stock as well as get a feel for what everyone wants. Salifert test kits came in today and we are working to get a larger selection of bulbs in soon.

[Guest Lles]

My wife and I made out weekly LFS trip and ended up at Aquarium One today. It was our first trip out there and we got to meet out first two Wamas members, scott711 and cbashaw. The customer service was outsanding, they really took the time to talk to us and cbashaw took the time to explain to me how to aquascape a LR pillar idea I've been working on. I can't wait to see them get their 2nd coral tank up and running.

 

So here's to you Aquarium One and thanks again for the great base rock for our system. Next time tell scott711 to take his finger off the scales tho :wink:

[danskim]

I've said this in another thread, but I hate going to LFS for the exact same reasons (and more) that Dave stated.

Why on earth would I want to pay more than I need to?

While I understand all the costs involved in having stock on everything while being competitive with online retailers... it's just common sense for a consumer like me to purchase online.

People say, "support your LFS," but if I can gain no benefit, then I have no reason to do so. Saving two days while waiting for a package to come is worth saving the extra (potentially a lot) money (and a little for gas).

 

This goes for livestock as well. I much prefer buying corals from local or other reefers. I bought a frag-pack from a guy on RC for a very reasonable price. The selection, health, color, and price were all excellent even factoring in the $55 shipping costs. Much better than going to any LFS I've been to where they charge $35 for a small brown montipora capricornus frag.

 

If I want fish or other inverts, I would choose an online retailer that gives at least 10-15 days live guarantee on most (or all) of its livestock.

 

I have yet to visit BRK and some other places down in VA, and I've heard so many good things about them. However, I am still very skeptical... I would, however, like to stop by and see what everyone is talking about sometime... It's just so far!

As Dave mentioned, we need a nice place in central MD! (Preferably Howard county )

Perhaps a business venture that has the convenience of an LFS, but also an internet/mail-order division to reach a larger market (like my beloved premiumaquatics.com that price matches EVERYTHING - I got a brand new Tunze 6100, Tunze magnet, and single controller for $320, 250w HQI 14K Phoenix bulb for $55 shipped, and lots of other really good deals).

 

In response to what someone said about the additional shipping costs... In our hobby, if we want to be succesful, it is useful to plan ahead. That said, one should plan ahead about what to buy and buy it all at once.

 

Dave,

Let's start a business together! Haha...

Edited September 19, 2006 by danskim

[johnnybv]

I've said this in another thread, but I hate going to LFS for the exact same reasons (and more) that Dave stated.

Why on earth would I want to pay more than I need to?

While I understand all the costs involved in having stock on everything while being competitive with online retailers... it's just common sense for a consumer like me to purchase online.

People say, "support your LFS," but if I can gain no benefit, then I have no reason to do so. Saving two days while waiting for a package to come is worth saving the extra (potentially a lot) money (and a little for gas).

 

This goes for livestock as well. I much prefer buying corals from local or other reefers. I bought a frag-pack from a guy on RC for a very reasonable price. The selection, health, color, and price were all excellent even factoring in the $55 shipping costs. Much better than going to any LFS I've been to where they charge $35 for a small brown montipora capricornus frag.

 

If I want fish or other inverts, I would choose an online retailer that gives at least 10-15 days live guarantee on most (or all) of its livestock.

 

I have yet to visit BRK and some other places down in VA, and I've heard so many good things about them. However, I am still very skeptical... I would, however, like to stop by and see what everyone is talking about sometime... It's just so far!

As Dave mentioned, we need a nice place in central MD! (Preferably Howard county )

Perhaps a business venture that has the convenience of an LFS, but also an internet/mail-order division to reach a larger market (like my beloved premiumaquatics.com that price matches EVERYTHING - I got a brand new Tunze 6100, Tunze magnet, and single controller for $320, 250w HQI 14K Phoenix bulb for $55 shipped, and lots of other really good deals).

 

Just remember, if you don't support your LFS, don't expect them to support you.

[danskim]

While that is true... that's based on circular logic...

Why should the customer be the one to serve the merchant's needs first?

I know you guys have a loyal customer pool, but that's because of your service, prices, and whatever else makes people feel that it's worth it to be one of your customers.

[johnnybv]

While that is true... that's based on circular logic...

Why should the customer be the one to serve the merchant's needs first?

I know you guys have a loyal customer pool, but that's because of your service, prices, and whatever else makes people feel that it's worth it to be one of your customers.

Doesnt mater who does what first but as you said it is ane needs to be circular.

[dandy7200]

Doesnt mater who does what first but as you said it is ane needs to be circular.

 

 

I think the main point of Danskims first post was missed. When are you going to start shipping so that the reefers that want to support someone locally but may be too far away for a drive or just would prefer to shop from their livingroom can do so. Your prices compete with Premium Aquatics from what I have seen. I'd pay shipping over gas anyday and twice on Mondays-Wednesdays. I mainly order drygoods from PA because my experiences with them have been really great and they have that LFS feel and attitude without the $markup$. Another example using livestock would be Pacific East Aquaculture, same attitude and kind-of-sort-of local. I buy some things locally and more than half of my stock have come from other members here but, when I want something special or generally expensive I almost always research and then buy from an online vendor. Example: I am currently considering a LuminArc A3mini or Stealth with a yet to be determined bulb ballast combo. BRK is a vendor that can get the reflectors I know from research on the WAMAS boards but, nowhere on the website does it list them. I also am pretty sure that they are not kept instock so they have to be delivered so why not have it drop shipped to my house? I have no idea what suppliers you use for ballast/bulbs and such so in order for me to even find out if I can buy the setup from you I need to figure that out. I can not even begin to imagine what all is involved when gettinginto the e-commerce field so I may be way out there but, I do know my time is valuable and while I like to hang out and look around a LFS my schedule rarely allows this luxury. Even if it was just possible to list every available product to you and your retail price and that way I could just put it all together on paper and order it by phone and have it drop shipped to my place instead of yours? I dunno just a thought.

 

Dan

[squiddly]

Doesnt mater who does what first but as you said it is ane needs to be circular.

 

And when I buy some couple hundred dollar item and the shop owner gives me his phone number in case we have a problem installing it that night, what's that worth? How much extra price would you pay when another shop owner gave me his cell number in case my tank went south while I was on vacation? You kinda have to balance all those things, plus the ability to get some little emergency something you need RIGHT NOW by taking a little drive on a friday evneing rather than wait for Tuesday at the earliest to get it?

 

Yeah, I understand stores that gouge you, but I also understand what being a retail store owner entails, and it is far from easy. Not an easy job, definitely. Not only do you have to try to make everyone happy at all times, but you also have to make payroll, pay the rent, keep up with the taxes, do the maintenance on the facility (sometimes), price the items, do the inventory, ordering, etc. etc. I'm not defending those who deliberately mark their stuff up outrageously, but I have to say that I am VERY thankful for the help I have received from the local shops who have gone above and beyond the call of duty for me and my critters.

 

Thanks, guys!

[johnnybv]

I have over 700 items in my inventory system, there is no way I am able to maintain an online catalog. If I was able to employ someone that would be soley dedicated to the web site only I might have a chance. As far as lumenarcs, a simple PM would answer all your questions, but let me add this.....If you order the Lumenarcs from me, you will get the same exact price that they have listed online and I dont charge shipping if it is going to be drop shipped to you. So first off you are getting a better deal than the online price and second you are supporting a LFS that supports your club.

John

 

 

I think the main point of Danskims first post was missed. When are you going to start shipping so that the reefers that want to support someone locally but may be too far away for a drive or just would prefer to shop from their livingroom can do so. Your prices compete with Premium Aquatics from what I have seen. I'd pay shipping over gas anyday and twice on Mondays-Wednesdays. I mainly order drygoods from PA because my experiences with them have been really great and they have that LFS feel and attitude without the $markup$. Another example using livestock would be Pacific East Aquaculture, same attitude and kind-of-sort-of local. I buy some things locally and more than half of my stock have come from other members here but, when I want something special or generally expensive I almost always research and then buy from an online vendor. Example: I am currently considering a LuminArc A3mini or Stealth with a yet to be determined bulb ballast combo. BRK is a vendor that can get the reflectors I know from research on the WAMAS boards but, nowhere on the website does it list them. I also am pretty sure that they are not kept instock so they have to be delivered so why not have it drop shipped to my house? I have no idea what suppliers you use for ballast/bulbs and such so in order for me to even find out if I can buy the setup from you I need to figure that out. I can not even begin to imagine what all is involved when gettinginto the e-commerce field so I may be way out there but, I do know my time is valuable and while I like to hang out and look around a LFS my schedule rarely allows this luxury. Even if it was just possible to list every available product to you and your retail price and that way I could just put it all together on paper and order it by phone and have it drop shipped to my place instead of yours? I dunno just a thought.

 

Dan

[danskim]

And I didn't meant to make it a debate or have any hard feelings.

I do recognize that BRK is a unique LFS because of all of its good attributes already listed.

We are talking about MOST LFS, especially ones I've (and others) have experienced here in MD. If anything, the ones we are complaining about are your competition.

 

I'm grateful for you guys for supporting WAMAS and having a discount (although I haven't had a chance to take advantage of this).

 

In addition to other bad things... several LFS here in MD no longer honor CMAS or other MAS discounts :(

 

Also... I am still sticking to my point about the merchant needs to make the move first to meet the needs of its customers or offer the customer something he can't get elsewhere. As a consumer, I want the most my money can buy. As a businessman (my family owns two retail stores), I want to attract customers with something that they want in order to have them come initially and keep them coming... whether that is with my prices, service, professionality, etc or a combination of those things. I don't tell customers, "hey come support me, and THEN I'll meet your needs." Business just doesn't seem to work like that in my head. Once a loyal customer, it does make sense that you will be treated somewhat (or a lot) better... in this case, getting info on new shipments, discounts, help on the side, etc. So in that sense of course it is circular...

 

Services like being able to call someone's cell for emergencies or help is indeed great as Squiddly has experienced.

Edited September 20, 2006 by danskim