mari.harutunian January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 Palytoxin poisoning doesn't occur very often, but when it does, the poisoned individuals usually have to print an info sheet and bring it to the ER to inform their doctors while being dangerously and extremely sick. I was thinking I could design and order an info sheet that will be laminated and can Velcro to the inside of a cabinet/ wall/ flat surface. It would have general info, early symptoms, safety precautions, what a doctor should do, modes of inhalation/exposure, and anything else you guys think would be important. 1. Good idea? Yay or nay? 2. Free w/ optional donation? Just free? Or paid? 3. You guys are more experienced than me so have any info/advice? All input appreciated Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandJ January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 (edited) I have had the same thought. I was thinking of making a refrigerator magnet style one. That way it could be grabbed quickly and given to first responders or er doctor. Also, you could just print them as photos (4x6) and they could be mounted as magnets if desired. Should only cost a few cents to print. Probably would like to see it list: -symptoms (human and maybe animal) -What to do (I actually don't know some of this like should you rinse your eyes? Induce vomiting? Does rinsing skin with anything specific break down the palytoxin faster?) -Poison control number (is there a poison control for animals?) I have talked with my family about the symptoms and what to do. I also printed out the CDC info sheet on it and the family knows that is in the front of my fish binder. Edited January 31, 2017 by SandJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mari.harutunian January 31, 2017 Author Share January 31, 2017 I have had the same thought. I was thinking of making a refrigerator magnet style one. That way it could be grabbed quickly and given to first responders or er doctor. Also, you could just print them as photos (4x6) and they could be mounted as magnets if desired. Should only cost a few cents to print. Probably would like to see it list: -symptoms (human and maybe animal) -What to do (I actually don't know some of this like should you rinse your eyes? Induce vomiting? Does rinsing skin with anything specific break down the palytoxin faster?) -Poison control number (is there a poison control for animals?) I have talked with my family about the symptoms and what to do. I also printed out the CDC info sheet on it and the family knows that is in the front of my fish binder. All great ideas! If it's Velcro and not magnet it can be placed just about anywhere. I was thinking lamination so if it was by the tank it could avoid water damage. They could use it as a direction sheet for safety precautions too. I was thinking full sheet because it could fit a lot of information front and back. Front and back lamination of 100lb glossy paper is 50¢ per page and very durable. The company I found sends out a free test page too to make sure it's the right look. I'll add all those points to my list when I get home. If anyone has anymore suggestions, it would be greatly appreciated! For you, by you. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 It's a good idea for folks whose children might get into the aquarium. As far as adult-only homes go, IMO, anyone so afraid of getting palytoxin poisoning that special documents are required, should not be handling those animals, maybe not even keeping them in the tank. We don't keep special notices around for the innumerable household hazards we are exposed to daily. There aren't notices on public space doorknobs and handrails. What happens if you shake hands with someone who was just touching tank stuff, then eat something without washing your hands, bite your nails, or rub your eyes? Your special palytoxin document will not be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mari.harutunian January 31, 2017 Author Share January 31, 2017 It's a good idea for folks whose children might get into the aquarium. As far as adult-only homes go, IMO, anyone so afraid of getting palytoxin poisoning that special documents are required, should not be handling those animals, maybe not even keeping them in the tank. We don't keep special notices around for the innumerable household hazards we are exposed to daily. There aren't notices on public space doorknobs and handrails. What happens if you shake hands with someone who was just touching tank stuff, then eat something without washing your hands, bite your nails, or rub your eyes? Your special palytoxin document will not be there. Children are most definitely not the only people effected by palytoxin poisoning. Most people are effected, while taking every precaution, but still somehow inhaling it when fragging- especially with bandsaws. This is not just a "caution- wet floor" kind of mindless and common warning, it's a "hey ER doctor I've been poisoned by an incredibly potent poison and this is what you need to know" so that people poisoned don't have to waste time printing it out before going to get emergency care-like people who have diabetic tattoos. But a tattoo would be ridiculous, so it's just a sheet of paper stored where you choose. Then for those that are just starting out, like me, they can have a nice info and precaution sheet. If you don't want it, don't have it. If it doesn't help prevent or help in the case of palytoxin, then oh well. But if this helps even one person then I'll consider it a success. You don't have to be young and unsuspecting to poison yourself. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandJ January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 I don't think it is as much of a warning to the aquarists, as info in case you are sick and not able to tell someone or as an aid for emergency personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 Could print this and keep it: https://goo.gl/s0b7f4 It's a nice article written by MASNA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandJ February 1, 2017 Share February 1, 2017 Could print this and keep it: https://goo.gl/s0b7f4 It's a nice article written by MASNA. Oooh, good article. This is the one I have https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6431a4.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k February 1, 2017 Share February 1, 2017 It's simply easier to not keep, buy, or trade for palys. I throw them in the trash whenever I see them. If rock comes in from somewhere bearing these corals, they get chiseled off and discarded. It takes a special kind of stupid to keep something that can kill you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k February 1, 2017 Share February 1, 2017 I'd rather see a ban on these corals or a plea not to purchase them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mari.harutunian February 1, 2017 Author Share February 1, 2017 I'd rather see a ban on these corals or a plea not to purchase them. I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sen5241b February 1, 2017 Share February 1, 2017 I'd rather see a ban on these corals or a plea not to purchase them. I think we need to let the individual take the risk --as long as they understand what the risk is! I've touched my zoas a gaziilion times and never felt sick but this discussion has put the fear of God in me. Wearing gloves from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mari.harutunian February 1, 2017 Author Share February 1, 2017 I think we need to let the individual take the risk --as long as they understand what the risk is! I've touched my zoas a gaziilion times and never felt sick but this discussion has put the fear of God in me. Wearing gloves from now on.Same Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnybv February 1, 2017 Share February 1, 2017 I have been poisoned by these palys on more than one occasion. Even with all the right precautions, masks, gloves googles etc, they still seem to get me, and every time it is agony. Eventually they are going to get someone worse than Steve Outlaw got it, and the consequences could be deadly. I think I sign for the aquariists would be great, along with possible treatments to bring to the ER if they go. My experiences have been very unpleasant, including fever of 103.5, uncontrollable shaking almost convulsions, chills with a fever very flu like but much worse, full body aches, with nothing to stop the reaction except time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sen5241b February 1, 2017 Share February 1, 2017 I have been poisoned by these palys on more than one occasion. Even with all the right precautions, masks, gloves googles etc, they still seem to get me, and every time it is agony. Eventually they are going to get someone worse than Steve Outlaw got it, and the consequences could be deadly. I think I sign for the aquariists would be great, along with possible treatments to bring to the ER if they go. My experiences have been very unpleasant, including fever of 103.5, uncontrollable shaking almost convulsions, chills with a fever very flu like but much worse, full body aches, with nothing to stop the reaction except time... How did you get poisoned?! Touch through skin? Inhalation? Touch with a little open-cut on finger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnybv February 1, 2017 Share February 1, 2017 Not really sure how it got through this last time, but all I can say is I had taken all the normal precautions and still got some! Those thing are evil, I was fragging the Caribbean grandis palys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mari.harutunian February 2, 2017 Author Share February 2, 2017 Not really sure how it got through this last time, but all I can say is I had taken all the normal precautions and still got some! Those thing are evil, I was fragging the Caribbean grandis palys... Did you use a saw? Also can I see a pick of the paly/zoa just cause I'm curious. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sen5241b February 2, 2017 Share February 2, 2017 Not really sure how it got through this last time, but all I can say is I had taken all the normal precautions and still got some! Those thing are evil, I was fragging the Caribbean grandis palys... Its known that some zoas have the playtoxin and some do not. One marine biologist tested different zoas from the same large colony of the same species in the Caribbean. Sample one had the poison and the second sample did not. Without testing its very difficult to know whether the poison is present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbowdeep88 February 2, 2017 Share February 2, 2017 I think the sheet is a good idea. Some stores might even be willing to distribute them with zoa/paly sales. I explained to my wife what it is and put a tab on the appropriate page in one of my coral books, but I totally agree that it's way easier to say "If I need to go to the hospital after working in the tank, grab this and bring it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami February 2, 2017 Share February 2, 2017 I have been poisoned by these palys on more than one occasion. Even with all the right precautions, masks, gloves googles etc, they still seem to get me, and every time it is agony. Eventually they are going to get someone worse than Steve Outlaw got it, and the consequences could be deadly. I think I sign for the aquariists would be great, along with possible treatments to bring to the ER if they go. My experiences have been very unpleasant, including fever of 103.5, uncontrollable shaking almost convulsions, chills with a fever very flu like but much worse, full body aches, with nothing to stop the reaction except time... Brings back memories. I've been hit by them three times. Twice it was pretty severe - nothing like Steve's, though. I remember the chills, the convulsions, the fever, the aches. It hit me fairly fast - about two hours and my breathing was kind of unusual, within a couple of hours of that is when the hard symptoms hit. In addition, your blood pressure does wacky things. The major symptoms cleared up in about 12 hours for me, but there was a lasting effect on my lungs/breathing, I've felt, that lasted for weeks, months even. Did you experience that, John? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnybv February 2, 2017 Share February 2, 2017 Yep sounds exactly the same, and yes breathing was difficult for at least 12 hours, then yes some prolonged trouble for a few days. Who know what affect this will have in the future on our bodies..... Here is the grandis Palys that I was cutting. The last time I was affected I did not use the saw, took all precautionary measures, cut the rock with coral cutters, and avoided actually cutting the polyp itself, but it still got me some how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnybv February 2, 2017 Share February 2, 2017 Tom, didn't Steve Outlaw do a write up about his exposure? I remember he was hospitalized for days, and was having a hard time walking even 6 months later. Now he did go to the extreme of boiling the polyps to get rid of them, and inhaled the toxins big time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mari.harutunian February 2, 2017 Author Share February 2, 2017 Tom, didn't Steve Outlaw do a write up about his exposure? I remember he was hospitalized for days, and was having a hard time walking even 6 months later. Now he did go to the extreme of boiling the polyps to get rid of them, and inhaled the toxins big time.... Yeah he did http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1083843 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt LeBaron February 2, 2017 Share February 2, 2017 I would love something like this. I've never had an issue with the Palys I have but better safe than sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM February 2, 2017 Share February 2, 2017 Decadence, in WAMAS about 2 years ago, was the last person I remember to get hit hard by it. I think it was himself, wife, dog, maybe baby too. He was cycling some old rock with the skimmer going. Rock had palys on it that were damaged or dying. His theory was that the skimmer had aerosolized the toxins that were released into the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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