Kenneth September 27, 2015 Share September 27, 2015 Was there a mistake in this article about another poisoning by zoanthid's palytoxin? http://boingboing.net/2015/09/25/aquarium-coral-poisons-sleepin.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k September 27, 2015 Share September 27, 2015 mist in the air? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth September 27, 2015 Author Share September 27, 2015 Yes, they called it "creeping death mist" -- seems like the reporter hasn't reported the situation accurately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keraxis September 27, 2015 Share September 27, 2015 Sounds like BS to me. With as many attacks against the trade as there are... I am guessing its made up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ford September 27, 2015 Share September 27, 2015 boingboing.net hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave w September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Maybe they walked barefoot on some of the zoas that had fallen to the floor and broken up. That seems more likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 I like that the dude had a 200 gallon in his mobile home. Not included, or pictured: wife. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmerek2 September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 You guys are saying you havnt seen or smelled the death mist? I cant start my mornings without getting a good sniff of good old death mist. -- and let me emphasize that you just can't make this stuff up -- This guy must have been talented if he grew a 70 lb clump of zoas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Come check out the 200 in my double wide. It's got about a half ton of zoanthids growing in there, all high end. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth September 28, 2015 Author Share September 28, 2015 Now that is a pickup line that I've never heard before: "come see my 200 gallon in my double-wide." ... but beware of the death mist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sen5241b September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 (edited) The article sounds poorly written BUT on this very board we have had people get sick when palytoxin became airborne by pouring boiling water on zoas, by cooking rock and in one case the rock sat out of water, the zoas began to rot and then rock was put back in tank on top of an airstone. I suspect there is something missing from this story. Edited September 28, 2015 by sen5241b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 I've felt severely ill (chills, shakes, fever, high blood pressure, rapid heartbeat, shallow breathing, etc.) from exposure to airborne palytoxin that, I assume, resulted when I was cleaning some rock infested with what I call "Outlaw Palys" and rinsing the rock under cold water. I was fully gloved up at the time. Whether the palytoxin was aerosolized by the rinsing or had otherwise "vaporized" into a "creeping death mist" I can't say. But I'm almost 100% sure that exposure was from breathing in palytoxin. Symptoms hit in 6-8 hours after exposure. The symptoms and timeline that the article talks about are consistent with palytoxin exposure. There may be some facts missing. It's hard to say, but when "some pieces of the coral fell on the floor, and some live polyps broke off," this might be an indication that the aquarist was fragging large zoanthid colonies, possibly aerosolizing some liquid from the zoas. When I handle these types of palys nowadays, I glove up, wear a labcoat, face shield and pesticide-rated respirator just to be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 When I handle these types of palys nowadays, I glove up, wear a labcoat, face shield and pesticide-rated respirator just to be safe. I want to see pics of Tom fragging palys! These things freak me out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth September 28, 2015 Author Share September 28, 2015 In our joking about the poorly written article and some clearly missing key details (probably not fully understood by the person writing the article), I didn't want to come across as not taking this seriously. It's something we must all be extremely careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 In our joking about the poorly written article and some clearly missing key details (probably not fully understood by the person writing the article), I didn't want to come across as not taking this seriously. It's something we must all be extremely careful. You're absolutely right. Missing information really reduces the value of an article like this. It is absolutely imperative that we understand these risks. Not all palythoas have the same levels of toxin in their tissues. There are some here in the DC region that have very high levels of toxin and have been part of the substance of many articles in recent years. These paly's are a really boring, gray-green color and spread like weeds. They're unattractive but really potent. A good picture of them can be found in this article (1st and 3rd pic) that was referred by the article in the original post. The symptoms that I listed above and that are called out in the article are consistent with respiratory system exposure. I have no idea if the same symptoms present themselves from transdermal (skin contact) exposure. I've heard of some people's hands going numb or tingling when fragging some zoas. Bottom line: Be careful. Also, be aware that in certain circumstances other people and creatures in nearby rooms can be affected by your activities. So use some sense when handling venomous organisms. For Alan: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefer_Madness September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Hopefully my wife doesn't read this article........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Hopefully my wife doesn't read this article........ I thought exactly the same thing. Every cough or headache would be blamed on the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 ehhhhh, I think with all things considered dangerous, you should exercise some level of caution, but I think by just being smart, you can avoid a lot of these issues. Wash your hands before and after, use eye protection, and gloves, and don't eat anything you frag. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefer_Madness September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 I thought exactly the same thing. Every cough or headache would be blamed on the tank. Exactly!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 ehhhhh, I think with all things considered dangerous, you should exercise some level of caution, but I think by just being smart, you can avoid a lot of these issues. Wash your hands before and after, use eye protection, and gloves, and don't eat anything you frag. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk And, when working with "Outlaw Palys" don an insecticide-rated respirator. Honestly, after having gone through this experience at different (declining) levels of symptoms, it wasn't until I added the respirator (available at HD and Lowes) that I seemed to finally beat it. Remember, palytoxin can kill. Didn't Julian Sprung speak on this at MACNA? Unfortunately, for a lot of us who were organizing the event, we didn't get to see the speakers. This is one I would really have liked to sit in on. What did Julian have to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Just found this on youtube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueTricia September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Did Isaac just recommend not eating anything you frag? Ummmm..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Did Isaac just recommend not eating anything you frag? Ummmm..... Write that down. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k September 29, 2015 Share September 29, 2015 We as a general rule do not keep Palys of any sort in any service tank due to their toxicity. Same goes with Lionfish. If everyone here just simply stopped growing Palys, then we'd have far less issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keraxis September 29, 2015 Share September 29, 2015 We as a general rule do not keep Palys of any sort in any service tank due to their toxicity. Same goes with Lionfish. If everyone here just simply stopped growing Palys, then we'd have far less issues. Thats not really the answer. Education is. Expressions like "cooking rock" need to be changed to bleaching rock or acid bath. At least then they wont try to boil them. Signs at LFS stating that gloves should be worn while handling. Basic education goes a long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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