Basement Pumps / head pressure

[MBVette]

Hey guys.

 

So Im working with my brother on building a new setup for him.  He is putting together a 120g tank that is going to have the sump in the basement.

 

So I am looking at pumps to figure out what is best for him.  He will have about 20' of head pressure on the tank.  I was looking at reeflo and looks like their yellowtail will work.  But what about DC pumps, I don't know much about them so what pump would I be looking at for  a DC pump with that type of head pressure.

 

Thanks

[gmerek2]

Just make sure a larger diameter pipe is used for less friction loss. I made this mistake on my old basement sump. I don't know anything about the pumps since I bought the largest in sump mag when I had a basement sump.

[MBVette]

what do you mean by larger pipe.  How big would you run the pipe.  I just looked and for example the yellowtail has a 2" inlet/outlet!  I assume you are not telling me to run bigger, just don't make the pipes smaller than that.  I have always plumbed keeping the pipe as big as possible for as long as possible.

 

Is that what you are saying?

[gmerek2]

Yes. I ran 1/2" for my mag. should have gone 3/4" newbie mistake. 2" sounds massive with very little friction loss. Sounds great

Edited March 24, 2015 by gmerek2

[YHSublime]

I would stick with the Reeflo with that kind of distance, JMO.

 

 

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[AlanM]

No DC pumps will deliver much flow over that head pressure. Also, in my experience the iwaki/panworld/blueline magnetically coupled ones have small pump heads and generate pressure by turning really fast. The high pitch of them running sounds like a turbo spinning up to me. I would agree to stick with a reeflo and two inch pipe. They can be happily valved down if you get too much as much as 50 percent.

[Origami]

Scott, are you saying that the tank will be 2 floors above the basement? Twenty feet of head pressure is a lot.

 

At that pressure, you'll likely want to go with a pressure pump like Reeflo's Yellowtail. It draws 345 Watts and provides 1,655 gph at 20' of head pressure. It has a Baldor motor, which is (in my opinion) a very good motor. It'll probably cost around $25-$30 per month to run this pump.

 

Run the largest pipe for the longest distance that you can reasonably run to minimize friction losses and you won't be wasting as much money.

[MBVette]

Its only one floor.  I have not measure anything yet.  But from the basement floor to the celing is about 9' then a couple more feet to get through to the main floor, then all the way up to the top of the tank would be about another 5'??  So I was rounding up at the highest but I would say w/o measuring we would be looking at most 20', but probably more than likely 15-16'.  Does that not sound right?  I know I need to firm up measurements on things but 20' while a bit much is on the conservative side when figuring the head distance.

[Brian Ward]

Its only one floor.  I have not measure anything yet.  But from the basement floor to the celing is about 9' then a couple more feet to get through to the main floor, then all the way up to the top of the tank would be about another 5'??  So I was rounding up at the highest but I would say w/o measuring we would be looking at most 20', but probably more than likely 15-16'.  Does that not sound right?  I know I need to firm up measurements on things but 20' while a bit much is on the conservative side when figuring the head distance.

Sounds similar to what I set up. I believe I'm running a Marlin and had to dial it back. You're welcome to come by and take a look sometime.

[MBVette]

Cool thanks Brian. So the yellowtail would be better than since its smaller than the marlin. I might hit you up on coming and taking a peek, just need to see when I might have some time on a weekend.

[AlanM]

I'm running a Reeflo Blackfin 3600 and ended up with higher than the rated flow I had calculated from using the head-loss calculators at Reef Central, for instance.  I think those calculators are very conservative.  I had to valve it down about halfway to not blow stuff out of my tank.  I'm still at 1400gph with a "calculated" 14 feet of head.  Horizontal runs don't really add head pressure, by the way, just a little friction.

[BowieReefer84]

Put the sump on a stand.  You won't regret it.

[MBVette]

Yeah We are going to build a table for the sump and pump to sit on.

[AlanM]

Yeah We are going to build a table for the sump and pump to sit on.

 

If, by chance, the sump is going to be made out of a 40B tank, then you can buy for around 60 dollars a set of metal shelves at Lowes that have exactly an 18x36 footprint.  I got one and the metal shelf supports around the outside hold the frame of my 40B sump perfectly and can set the sump however high you want.  Then you can put a shelf above the sump for reactors or supplies or dosers or whatever.

 

My basement sump tower looks like this:

 

 

I think the shelf was this one:

 

http://www.lowes.com/pd_242576-1281-UR-364_4294936608__?productId=4750829

[Origami]

The less height, the less head pressure loss and, most likely, the less power you'll use. The less power, the less money spent. Raise the sump if you can....

[MBVette]

I'm going to go over tonight and get a good idea of the height we are looking at.

 

For a sump we have an extra 75g tank sitting around that I'm going to utilize for a sump. It's a bit big, but it's free and extra water volume never hurts

[MBVette]

Ok so I measured it out and I am looking at an 11' head night using a 4' stand on the sump and guesstimating the plumbing going to the top of the tank at 5'

 

So do you think the super dart will work. Reeflo says at 12' there is 1150 gph. So it should be more than enough correct?

[Origami]

Write Reeflo and see if they can give you a power consumption figure for the Super Dart at 12' of head pressure. Compare that with the Yellowtail. While you're at it, ask them about your specific situation. Reeflo gives very good customer service. It's actually worth giving them a call. Great people.

[MBVette]

Good idea Tom.  I have dealt with them before on an old pump I have used and they were fantastic then.  I will give the a call tomorrow.

[gmerek2]

Also I lost a lot of heat with cooling of water in long pipes. Also the basement is very cool so that cost me a lot of power.

[MBVette]

Thanks for the infor Graham.  So maybe I can put some that foam pipe insulation onto the pvc to reduce the loss of heat since his basement is on the chilly side.

[AlanM]

Thanks for the infor Graham.  So maybe I can put some that foam pipe insulation onto the pvc to reduce the loss of heat since his basement is on the chilly side.

 

I always wanted to take advantage of my long pipe run going into my basement sump to wrap the pipe with some heat tape and plug it in to my controller as a heater.  That way I wouldn't have heaters in the saltwater that is always the thing that crashes tanks when they fail or break.

[DaveS]

For flow curves, don't forget it's not just the head height but also friction loss and bends in the pipe.  Your 11' vertical head may very well equate to a 20' head flow curve after factoring in the rest.

[MBVette]

I'm going to need to many elbows in this setup. It's only 1 more elbow than I use on the 220 with the sump directly underneath the tank. But I will make sure to use them sparingly.

 

So I heard back from reeflo today and they recommend the swordtail pump. At 10' of head its almost 1200 gph so I think that will be more than sufficient for what I'm looking at.

 

And the pump is pretty energy efficient using an average of 155 watts

[dave w]

I don't want to be a wet blanket, but not only would I agree with those who say to put your sump on a stand, I'd recommend that you put it close to the ceiling as possible.  Nobody wants to work off a ladder, but 155 watts for 24 hours would be 3700 watts and at 15 cents/kilowatt hour would cost about 53 cents a day, about $200 a year.  I would be a lot more fun putting that money into fish instead of a coal fired generator of the power company.