Origami November 29, 2014 Share November 29, 2014 It should go like this: sump with 1.5" bulkhead, union ball/gate valve, pump intake, pump, pump out, union check valve, ball/gate valve, T. All of this should be 1.5" pipe to the T. The side of the T can be reduced down to incorporate the 1" manifold. After the T it should go to the returns with as much 1.5" as possible, then reduced down at the returns to 1"- both of which should have union ball/gate valves. +1. I'm mixed on the check valve, but definitely agree with putting ball valves at strategic points (including between the sump and the pump and again after the pump) to facilitate pump removal for maintenace. Your sketch above is missing a valve between the sump and the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzaguy November 29, 2014 Author Share November 29, 2014 So should I let the manifold flow back into the sump or cap it off and let it stay pressurized? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzaguy November 29, 2014 Author Share November 29, 2014 Also. If any at all, where all should I install back flow preventers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ford November 29, 2014 Share November 29, 2014 Also. If any at all, where all should I install back flow preventers Check valves = back flow preventers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM November 29, 2014 Share November 29, 2014 I vote for pressurized, not back into sump, or maybe even better what Rob said and pressurize both ends of it and install it as a side loop from the pump output. I also vote for check valve after the manifold on the way to the return nozzles. Basically see if you can figure out what is going to keep siphoning when the pump is turned off. If your sump is big enough to handle the entire siphon down, then I would vote for no check valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k November 30, 2014 Share November 30, 2014 check valves are for stopping water coming back into the sump. It should be a mandatory part of plumbing, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzaguy November 30, 2014 Author Share November 30, 2014 Ok I got all plumbing today except a check valve. They only have spring loaded valves in my area so I'll add that later if need be. Got lucky and found a 1.5" bulkhead at our local store which was pure luck. They don't typically sell them. Got a hole saw to drill the sump hole larger. It's been in a vinegar bath for about a week so I'll drain and drill tonight and hopefully start plumbing tommorow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzaguy November 30, 2014 Author Share November 30, 2014 I'm gonna put a ton of valves and unions in this setup to make removal or replacement for every part simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ford November 30, 2014 Share November 30, 2014 Its my opinion check valves are not needed and shouldnt be trusted. Make sure theres enough room for the siphon in your sump and call it good. All it takes is a sponge or something to grow in it and it will fail. Just my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzaguy November 30, 2014 Author Share November 30, 2014 Ready to rock and roll. Who's in?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k November 30, 2014 Share November 30, 2014 Its my opinion check valves are not needed and shouldnt be trusted. Make sure theres enough room for the siphon in your sump and call it good. All it takes is a sponge or something to grow in it and it will fail. Just my opinion Large commercial systems use check valves and nearly all of the builds that I do incorporate them. I only use serviceable check valves and some of the ones out there aren't serviceable and some are just plain crap. Ball check valves and Union Flappers are the 2 that I prefer because of their reliability and serviceability. Balls last 20+ years and flappers last about 10. I've never seen sponge growing in plumbing components in 25+ years..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzaguy November 30, 2014 Author Share November 30, 2014 Sump hole enlargement success. Thank god I called rob first or I might have been in trouble. Thanks Rob. Now has a 1.5" bulkhead. Gonna make things neater and easier for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctenophore November 30, 2014 Share November 30, 2014 I recently made a new manifold for my system with 10 ports. 2" main line with 3/4" spigot barb fittings. Then, silicone soft tubing with antelco valves to each piece of equipment. I love it so far, although if I redo any part of it, i would make the first two ports 1" soft tube. This manifold is gravity fed from my skimmer, so it has a bit less pressure than if direct driven by pump. I'll post pics if you're interested and if i can find some. The antelcos are very easy to fine tune and they act like unions with the silicone tubing which is easy to remove and doesn't harden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ford November 30, 2014 Share November 30, 2014 I had a ton of pineapple sponges growing in my drain pipes a couple years ago. Now that my tank is a little older I dont seem to see them much anymore but I have certainly seem them in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzaguy November 30, 2014 Author Share November 30, 2014 Gravity feed 10 ports? Help me understand this. How is there any pressure for anything if it's only gravity fed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctenophore November 30, 2014 Share November 30, 2014 Gravity feed 10 ports? Help me understand this. How is there any pressure for anything if it's only gravity fed?the pressure is dependent on how far the water falls between tank level and sump level, and a little bit on pipe diameter (friction will reduce pressure). For example, if you have a siphon pipe in your overflow, and the water level inside the overflow box is at 5', and the sump water level (or gravity-fed reactor output) is 8", then you have a 4'4" difference, which is about 1.5 psi or roughly the output pressure of a small sicce or magdrive pump. This is typically enough pressure to fluidize biopellets and certainly other types of media and feed a skimmer. Also, this has nothing to do with flow rate. If that siphon pipe is 2" diameter, then you can carry about 5000gph with that 1.5psi pressure. I'll take a pic when i get home, but in my case, my skimmer is very tall, so it essentially acts like a prefilter box. The 7' tall column of water inside exits around 18" from the bottom, so a net change of 5.5', or about 2psi. I sized the output pipe at 2", and all my manifold fittings at 3/4", so friction loss would be minimal. I get pretty close to that 2psi at each valve, and about 500 gph of flow on each 3/4" tube. The result is that my single hammerhead return pump that drives the system pushes all of its ~5000gph into the tank, then i get all of that flow again for free, to drive the filtration manifold. It saves me a considerable amount of power each month not having to use a bunch of feed pumps. Hope this helps. I'll try to take a video when i get home that explains it better. I helped my friend with a 120gal tank do a similar version of this and it works very well and silently, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzaguy December 1, 2014 Author Share December 1, 2014 One to many unions beside the sump but it was glued already. Guess more is better in this case. Never know when I'll wanna yank the sump out rhat side I suppose. Slow progress is better then no progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzaguy December 1, 2014 Author Share December 1, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k December 3, 2014 Share December 3, 2014 stop using purple primer! It always looks bad when there are drips and runs. Use the red can of PVC solvent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzaguy December 3, 2014 Author Share December 3, 2014 Is the red so you don't have to use primer?? And I agree on the purple. I hate it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM December 3, 2014 Share December 3, 2014 They make a clear cleaner that does the same thing, just isnt purple. The red glue/solvent is all purpose, and I think Rob is saying that primer just isnt necessary in aquarium plumbing, so dont use it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami December 3, 2014 Share December 3, 2014 Some thoughts on primer: I agree with Rob that the purple-run look messes up the cosmetic elegance of a well-done plumbing job. Purple primer is used for four purposes. It's purple so the plumbing inspector can see that plumbers have used it to prepare a plastic joint (in accordance with the building code). It cleans the surface of the plastic - this is probably where most of its functionality lies (in terms of its chemical composition, which is mostly acetone and MEK). It has additives that soften (releasing molded stresses in the plastic on) the surface of the pipe and, by applying it early, allows the plastic to be conditioned longer (i.e. deeper) than if you were to use cement only. And, it has an organic lubricant to help fit the joint components together. All of these, except for the purple dye, can be found in regular PVC cement - whether it's clear or tinted. The action of priming removes surface dirt, dust, ink and oils from pipe that might otherwise get trapped in the joint by cement and possibly weakean a joint. This is probably less of a problem with new pipe. All this is important enough in constructing homes and such, when the pipes are in the wall, longevity is expected, and loss risk is high. For our purposes, where runs are short (and subject to less expansion), the joints are in the open (so we can detect and repair leaks easily), where the pressure is far lower, and we don't have a plumbing code to drive its use, whether or not you use primer is your choice. If you don't use primer, you might consider prepping the pipe and coupling surface with clear PVC cleaner (in the yellow can) before applying the cement ( to take care of the dust, dirt, and oils issue). Alternatively, you CAN also buy Clear Primer and avoid the purple-run look which, no matter how careful we think we are, we always seem to get. For example, Oatey makes a clear primer. The part number for an 8-ounce can is 30751. You can buy it online. Home Depot has it listed on their website, too (just search Oatey 30751 and it should come up). You might have to choose to ship it to the store and pick it up later since it's probably not a high-demand item that merits shelf space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzaguy December 3, 2014 Author Share December 3, 2014 Thank you. I will definitely get that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzaguy December 3, 2014 Author Share December 3, 2014 It's nice to have a plumbing store by my house that has every plumbing valve you can think of and cheaper then brs at that. Sch. 80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzaguy December 27, 2014 Author Share December 27, 2014 Couldn't make the manifold fit where I wanted it to so I just bit the bullet and made a very expensive trip to the hardware store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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