Getting ready to start "juicing" the tank, dosing conundrum

[YHSublime]

[Orion]

I'm no chemist, but a 30ppm drop in calcium in a 24hr period seems odd. Calcium, at least in my tank, takes a little while to drop vs. alk and is more stable.

 

How are your Magnesium levels?

[YHSublime]

I'm no chemist, but a 30ppm drop in calcium in a 24hr period seems odd. Calcium, at least in my tank, takes a little while to drop vs. alk and is more stable.

 

How are your Magnesium levels?

 

Yeah, I don't know either. The tank has nearly dropped 1 full dkh in the past 4 days, and I will test calcium again tonight, will space it out over 5 days to see. I can tell you coraline is starting to grow very quickly, fwiw. It's all going somewhere....

 

Last I checked my magnesium was 1400, but that was a few weeks ago, I'll check again tonight.

[GaryL]

So is conundrum the "hot" new additive? J/k I would take a look at magnesium too, I have seen with past members when they had a calcium problem then they had a mag problem also.

 

 

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Edited April 11, 2014 by GaryL

[Origami]

4/7- alk was 140 (or 7.84) Calc-410

4/8- alk was 130 (7.28) Calc- 380

4/9- I ran out of reagent, and had what I thought was enough for one more test, but results yielded 130 (7.28)

4/10- alk was at 125 (7dkh) with new reagent. Seems somewhat consistent. Did not test calc.

 

The fast drop in calcium (not in correlation to the alkalinity) may be due to the fact that my coraline algae is taking off like crazy. I went from none, to spots all over my overflows and back wall. Just a thought. I will test tonight to see what I come up with, but I've not done a water change in order to see my consumption, and I'm worried that my alk is steadily dropping fast, and I've added quite a few new acros.

Calcium carbonate is the primary skeletal component of Coral skeletons and calcareous plants and algae, such as coralline algae. It requires both calcium and alkalinity, in proportions very close to one calcium for every two carbonates. Magnesium can substitute for calcium a little in proportions that differ by coral species. In fact, magnesium substitutes for calcium about 5 percent in coralline algae. In this case, you actually use less calcium than alk than the proportion would dictate.

 

Randy Holmes-Farley has a good article that he wrote a few years ago illustrating several situations where the normal consumption proportion varies.

 

I've always contended that it's easy to be off by 20 ppm or more with most calcium test kits. Thus, it's better to compare your tank's consumption ratio over longer runs and not day to day. If dosing two part, be aware that if mixing your own, hydration of the dry Calcium chloride can cause solutions to be weaker than planned, leading to the false conclusion that calcium is being consumed faster than it really is.

 

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[Origami]

My tank in Ashburn, if not dosed would have easily dropped 30 or more ppm per day. A mature tank full of Corals laying down skeletal material, or a tank with calcium loving clams can go through a lot in a short time.

 

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[YHSublime]

My tank in Ashburn, if not dosed would have easily dropped 30 or more ppm per day. A mature tank full of Corals laying down skeletal material, or a tank with calcium loving clams can go through a lot in a short time.

 

Wow, that's quite a bit. So I used this beautiful day to do some testing, backwards, I know.

 

4/7/14

Alk- 140 (or 7.84)

Calc-410

 

4/8/14

Alk- 130 (7.28)

Calc- 380

 

4/9/14

I ran out of reagent, and had what I thought was enough for one more test, but results yielded 130 (7.28)

 

4/10/14

Alk- 125 (7dkh) with new reagent. Seems somewhat consistent. Did not test calc.

 

4/11/14

Alk- 125 (7dkh)

 

4/12/14

Alk- 122 (closer to 6.72, probably 6.80)

Calc- 375

I tested calcium using my salifert test. First it said 410, and then 400. I tested it against my API kit, which came up to 350. I did another two tests on the salifert, and made sure I followed the instructions to a T. This yielded 375, and I'm confident that is the closest number to what it is currently.

Magnesium- 1290

 

So over 6 days, I averaged 3ppm in dkh per day, and 5.83 for calcium.

In meq/l that is .06 a day

 

So BRS calculator says that for alkalinity to get back to 6 days ago

NEED: 135.9 ml

4.5 fl oz

27.1 tsp

 

 

and for calcium to get back to 6 days ago worth of consumption:

NEED: Need: 609 ml

20.5 fl oz

121.8 tsp

 

[Origami]

The 4/8 to 4/12 drop looks good. Not bad over the longer term either.

 

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[lnevo]

I still think you should just go with the same amount of cal solution as alk. Especially when you look at the difference from 4/7-4/8 vs the difference of 4/8-4/12. You can always dose more and as long as your calcium is not plummeting you should be fine.

[YHSublime]

I still think you should just go with the same amount of cal solution as alk. Especially when you look at the difference from 4/7-4/8 vs the difference of 4/8-4/12. You can always dose more and as long as your calcium is not plummeting you should be fine.

 

Fair enough. And that alk dosing looks to be on par with normal?

[lnevo]

Yeah looks spot on. Comes to about 22ml/day of consumption. You probably will need more but starting there is perfect.

[YHSublime]

Dosing both calc and alk using this below:

 

I mixed up a gallon of soda ash (2cups) and calcium carbonate (2.5cups) this morning, and made sure everything was clear and nothing crystallized on the bottom before pouring them into my containers.

 

In each port (4 for alk, 8 for calc) I changed them into "advanced" buttons, and then put this script in:

Fallback OFF OSC 000:00/000:52/059:08 Then ON

 

 

Then I went back into my dashboard, and I put both the dosers on as "Auto"

 

I also drilled 1/4" holes into the top of my dosing container lids (just little on gallon containers) and then used the hollow handles on the inside to run the rigid tubing through. This way it keeps them flush against the bottom and I don't have to worry about the tubing curling up and running dry.

 

Wish me luck!

[lnevo]

Good luck!!

[YHSublime]

Good luck!!

Haha, thanks. Should I be concerned about dosing them at the same time? They are fairly close...

[lnevo]

The first field after osc is the offset. I would put a 5 minute or 30 minute offset on one of them so they aren't dosing at the same time... You dont want them at same time or they can precipitate unless the outputs are far apart.

[YHSublime]

The first field after osc is the offset. I would put a 5 minute or 30 minute offset on one of them so they aren't dosing at the same time... You dont want them at same time or they can precipitate unless the outputs are far apart.

 

So that would look like this?

OSC 05:00/000:52/059:08

[lnevo]

Yep

[YHSublime]

Yep

 

Thanks man. I'm glad we have you around the WAMAS way, you've been bomb.com helping me out with all this stuff!

[lnevo]

Thanks! Definitely feel welcome here Having gone through the exact same process just a few months ago, I definitely learned a lot that i can share.

[YHSublime]

Well, thus far the experience has been... uneventful. It looks like I have found my consumption rate PERFECTLY, which I suppose is very eventful!

 

I have been dosing 23ml a day over a 24 hour period of both calc and alk. I am testing for alkalinity, as that is my main number that I am concerned with. Today marks my 5th day.

 

When I first started dosing on the 13th (this past Sunday) my alk was at 122, which roughly translates into 6.80 dkh. I'm sure that based on my consumption, by the time I had started dosing, it probably dropped to an even 120 (6.72 dkh) So at 5 days of dosing 23ml a day for alk, I tested on the 15th (it was 125) and I tested today, and it was at 125! So I'm (at least for the past two days) staying solid at 7dkh, which I think is going to be my desired number to stay at.

 

is it safe to say I got it right the first time?!

[lnevo]

Theres not really much difference between in 5ppm but the dosage sounds right for that difference and consumption. When I started it was at 20ml back in august. I'm now at 40ml and probably need to increase...havent tested in a while.

[sachabballi reef]

Why 7? Not much room in case of anything. I like 9...gives me room up and down and mid point for frags from people...since some run at 10/11 and 8

 

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[YHSublime]

Why 7? Not much room in case of anything. I like 9...gives me room up and down and mid point for frags from people...since some run at 10/11 and 8Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

Because it's about what I've been at. Way I see it is I've not lost any sps yet, so why push it up by 2 if 7 has been working?

 

Plus it was never a number I intended to hit, but I know a few nice tanks with close to the same setup that run at 7. I can see your argument for flex on up or down at 9, but I can't remember the last time I tested that high... Probably in the 57.

[sachabballi reef]

ARE THE TANKS YOU KNOW WITH 7 oops sorry about caps lol zeo tanks?

[YHSublime]

ARE THE TANKS YOU KNOW WITH 7 oops sorry about caps lol zeo tanks?

 

NO THEY ARE NOT!    But I also understand 2.5 meq/L (7dkh) to be about on par with NSW?