LanksTank January 13, 2014 Share January 13, 2014 Does anyone have any experience with setting up a BeanAnimal Overflow? I want to set one up on my new rimless tank as it will be next to my entertainment center and I want to reduce noise. I wanted to know if anyone has any advice on how far from the top of the glass I should drill the holes; both for the 2 returns and the 3 standpipes. I am not going to do a C2C but rather a large overflow box with returns on either side. The dimensions of the overflow box are 18.5 x 4.25 x 5.25. Also what do you recommend the waterline be set at (inches below glass) in a rimless tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoelace January 13, 2014 Share January 13, 2014 Your overflow box is not that tall so you don't have much room to work with. Depending on the size of your pvc, there may not be a lot of clearance. A 1" elbow is going to take up several inches easily and if you use threaded, remember you have to rotate them to install, so you need clearance below. IME, I have placed the overflow holes right in the middle of the height of the box. You can always add a short piece of pipe to adjust the height of the dry emergency if need be. As for the placement of the box, it depends on the teeth. Most box's teeth seem to be cut to a depth where the top of the box can be flush with the top of a rimless tank and accommodate 1/2" rise of flow above the bottom of the teeth and then another 1/2 to the rim, assuming 1" teeth depth. On the other hand, if you are running 4 MP60's and 4 WP40's or if you are running very high flow to sump, you might want to give yourself 1" or more for waves in addition to 1/2 to 3/4" for water rise above the teeth bottom. More details on your plans, flow, and pipe diameter would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowieReefer84 January 13, 2014 Share January 13, 2014 (edited) Drill 3 holes at different heights. Lowest will be full siphon, then secondary, then emergency. No plumbing in the box itself. 2cents. Not sure what size the tank is, so it's hard to recommend a specific bulkhead size. EDIT - At least put the full siphon down as low as possible with no fittings in the box. You would want 90's on the other two with such a small box maybe. Lots of ways to do this really. Edited January 13, 2014 by BowieReefer84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM January 13, 2014 Share January 13, 2014 I have a rimless tank with a DIY BA overflow which I drilled into the back. I wanted the waterline at 0.75" below the rim, so the weir of the overflow box is at 1 inches below the rim. I did the calculation for weir flow width vs flow rate to get the height of the water above the weir and it came out spot on. I wish I had gone about a half inch lower because when I run the magfloat along the glass at the waterline to clean it I get splashes out if I'm not super careful. Unfortunately, in order to get the algae and scale off to get it pristine I have to really scrub from time to time, so it makes it more difficult. So I'd advise setting the waterline at 1.25 inches below the rim and setting the weir below that level depending on the width and your desired flow rate. Here is my calculator which you can copy or use: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AitCoGEDB43DdDJxaWZyZW1JbEpSUGtVVGRkZUt0Y1E&usp=sharing A suggested hole placement from the BA expert on Reef Central, uncleof6, is shown here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=20851580 He suggests that the measurement from hole center to glass edge should be no more than 1.5x the diameter of the hole. In his case you can see 2.375 inch holes being drilled (actually, 60mm for 1.5" ABS bulkheads, classic BA design calls for 1" bulkheads or 45mm holes), so the top edge of those holes are 2.375 inches from the top edge of the glass. In addition, I've always heard that they need to be 3x the diameter of the hole from center to center (so 2x from edge to edge) when laying out the holes next to each other. Also a tip from someone who did it wrong (me), make the overflow box deep enough from front to back so that you can remove the elbows that you put in the holes which will probably be 1" street elbows pressure fit, not glued, into the bulkheads. Also make it high enough from top to bottom so that you can have enough volume in the box that a slight mis-calibration in one direction doesn't result in you flushing or sucking air out the full siphon connection in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM January 13, 2014 Share January 13, 2014 My calculator on google docs is for a smooth weir, by the way, no teeth. teeth will put the water level much higher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanksTank January 13, 2014 Author Share January 13, 2014 Drill 3 holes at different heights. Lowest will be full siphon, then secondary, then emergency. No plumbing in the box itself. 2cents. Not sure what size the tank is, so it's hard to recommend a specific bulkhead size. EDIT - At least put the full siphon down as low as possible with no fittings in the box. You would want 90's on the other two with such a small box maybe. Lots of ways to do this really. I ordered a 57 rimless, 1/2 inch thick glass. The original design for 1" bulkheads should be more than adequate I would think. I plan on putting 90 degree elbows inside the box that slip into the bulkheads (no threads), and constructing the standpipes on the outside similar to the original design. I was waiting to get the tank before I buy the overflow box because I still am not sure whether it wouldn't be better to just buy some black 1/4 inch acrylic and build my own with just a flat weir. I liked the idea of the teeth though as a precautionary measure of not having things fall into the overflow that shouldn't be in there. Having the holes at 3 different heights makes sense as it would be easier to calibrate the return pump flow and wouldn't have to worry about a break in the siphon, and emergency really just needs to be situated so that plumbing is just above waterline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanksTank January 13, 2014 Author Share January 13, 2014 Does anyone have or know someone I could borrow bits and drill press from for glass holes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM January 13, 2014 Share January 13, 2014 Mike's idea for different hole heights is a fine one. His idea about drilling the full siphon down near the bottom of where the box will be and then not even putting an elbow on it is a neat one, actually. The three different heights and no internal box plumbing is an interesting one too, and it seems like it should work, but the emergency should really be dry and out of the water at all times except maybe startup, which would be tough to do with elbowless holes. I think elbows are better, but what do I know. The hole heights are not super crucial (unless you were to put the open channel lower than the full siphon for some reason), but the emergency water level should be the highest and after that the open channel and the full siphon can be the same or full siphon lower if you want. I built my own out of 3/8 black acrylic and it works fine. I only left 2.5" front to back, though, and I can't get the 1" street elbow out without cutting the elbow with a hacksaw which is doable, but you can't put a new one in with a hacksaw, heh. 3.25" front to back would have been better. Also I only made mine with a bit less than 0.5 inches of clearance between the bottom of the full siphon elbow and the bottom of the box, the clearance is probably fine, but I wish the box was deeper and the elbow ended lower to allow for play in the water level in the box before it started sucking air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM January 13, 2014 Share January 13, 2014 Also, I've never seen one drill with a drill press. No idea how you'd even do that. Most people use a little template made of a hole cut in plywood with a regular hole saw or just build a dam with plumbers putty to hold in the water and start the drill bit sideways and rotate it up to level once you get a groove. You're out in centerville or I'd let you borrow my bits for 1" ABS bulkheads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanksTank January 13, 2014 Author Share January 13, 2014 Mike's idea for different hole heights is a fine one. I built my own out of 3/8 black acrylic and it works fine. I really think that the only purpose of the elbows in the original design was the strainers he had cut into them. That's why I was going to go with the teeth. No plumbing would work but might get clogged constantly if you have stuff jumping into it.. How wide was your overflow box Alan? and how far apart did you space your holes? (Center to center) Also, I've never seen one drill with a drill press. No idea how you'd even do that. Most people use a little template made of a hole cut in plywood with a regular hole saw or just build a dam with plumbers putty to hold in the water and start the drill bit sideways and rotate it up to level once you get a groove. You're out in centerville or I'd let you borrow my bits for 1" ABS bulkheads. Do you live in Gaithersburg? If you're willing to lend it to me, I would gladly pick them up this weekend when I visit my girlfriend in Clarksburg. Do you have bits for 3/4" ABS as well? I didn't think about a wood template, but that is a great idea. I think I'd be too scared to do it free hand with the tilt and rotate method. Last thing I want is a pile of glass on the floor.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanksTank January 13, 2014 Author Share January 13, 2014 (edited) He suggests that the measurement from hole center to glass edge should be no more than 1.5x the diameter of the hole. In his case you can see 2.375 inch holes being drilled (actually, 60mm for 1.5" ABS bulkheads, classic BA design calls for 1" bulkheads or 45mm holes), so the top edge of those holes are 2.375 inches from the top edge of the glass. In addition, I've always heard that they need to be 3x the diameter of the hole from center to center (so 2x from edge to edge) when laying out the holes next to each other. Never mind already answered my question in an earlier post. Judging by that rule of thumb, the 3 holes should fit safely inside the overflow box I mentioned earlier. I spaced them 5.5 inches apart and that still gives me 2.4 inches of clearance on each end of the box. Edited January 13, 2014 by LanksTank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM January 13, 2014 Share January 13, 2014 I have hole saws for 1.5", 1", and 3/4" ABS bulkheads, 60, 45, and 35 mm, respectively if I can put my hands on them all. You're welcome to borrow them on your way through to Clarksburg. My overflow is 36 inches wide and I just put the holes on the convenient end for me. As you can see I would do it differently next time. You'll get good at picturing how the BA works after you build your first defective one too, heh. By the way, I have the 75 Deep Blue Rimless like the 57 that I assume you're getting and I really like it. Build quality was very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanksTank January 14, 2014 Author Share January 14, 2014 Just realized I have my cracked 90 gal sitting in my garage. Going to use it as a crash test dummy to get a better feel for how the overflow works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt January 14, 2014 Share January 14, 2014 Saw some good advice and stuff in this thread. I'll offer a different perspective on the elbows on the tank side of the bulkhead...that they could add value. Having the holes drilled at similar/same heights let's you control the height of each drain opening with different height PVC pipe attached to each elbow. The overflow's water level needed to climb up to the emergency drain will impact your water level in your sump return area proporionally if the emergency ever comes into play. In larger tanks it may not be an issue, but in smaller tanks (I'm working on plans for a herbie in a 5.5g), this could impact salinity depending on how you have your sump and ato set up. Caveat - I'm only in planning stages and haven't implemented herbie or bean before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcrazyjoker81 January 15, 2014 Share January 15, 2014 Here is an idea on the spacing on my 150G Bean Animal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanksTank January 15, 2014 Author Share January 15, 2014 Here is an idea on the spacing on my 150G Bean Animal. Looks good Aaron, you'll have to let me know how it turns out once you do a water test. How high did you raise the secondary standpipe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcrazyjoker81 January 15, 2014 Share January 15, 2014 Looks good Aaron, you'll have to let me know how it turns out once you do a water test. How high did you raise the secondary standpipe? Jasen the tank is full and running/cycling already. Dead silent once you tune it. I highly recommend a gate valve vs ball valve. So much easier to tune. I only raised it 1/8th of an inch...should of probably went 1/4 or so, but it works like a charm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM January 15, 2014 Share January 15, 2014 Jasen, if you stop by to get the bits when I'm here you can see how quiet mine is as well. It's dropping 1500 gph of water around 10 feet vertical and 12 feet horizontal across the ceiling and it's even quiet downstairs where the horizontals run through the ceiling. The pump is a different matter. My old one was dead silent. The new one is bigger and much more powerful and kinda loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowieReefer84 January 15, 2014 Share January 15, 2014 Another way is to drill the bottom, and this allows a much smaller footprint in the tank (front to back at least...) Three pipes of different heights straight into the sump. You don't need elbows this way. I take a little pride in my old tank design: 20120904_210826 by mteske1, on Flickr 20120904_210221 by mteske1, on Flickr It worked like an absolute charm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanksTank January 15, 2014 Author Share January 15, 2014 Another way is to drill the bottom, and this allows a much smaller footprint in the tank (front to back at least...) Three pipes of different heights straight into the sump. You don't need elbows this way. I take a little pride in my old tank design: That is a pretty nifty design, sweet and simple. I have cross bracing in the middle of my tank underneath the bottom pane though and would like to have the overflow centered. Did you ever get slurping noises from a vortex created by the vertical pvc? I would imagine it would happen eventually if you kept cranking up the flow. As long as the pipes are far enough apart (height wise), I wouldn't think you would see this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoelace January 15, 2014 Share January 15, 2014 If you have your siphon tuned correctly, the flow in the secondary should be just a trickle. Not enough to do vortex slurping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der ABT January 15, 2014 Share January 15, 2014 Little late to the party but if you can try to leave enough water in the overflow that a fish would survive during a power outtage, thats the only thing i would change on mine, id make it a little deeper so i fish would have more water when the power goes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowieReefer84 January 15, 2014 Share January 15, 2014 That is a pretty nifty design, sweet and simple. I have cross bracing in the middle of my tank underneath the bottom pane though and would like to have the overflow centered. Did you ever get slurping noises from a vortex created by the vertical pvc? I would imagine it would happen eventually if you kept cranking up the flow. As long as the pipes are far enough apart (height wise), I wouldn't think you would see this issue. I notched a 'V' in the siphon to avoid that. Never had any issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM January 15, 2014 Share January 15, 2014 Before I'd run one I thought Mike's design was silly, but now that I've run one for a while I think it would work great. I have an idea for a fun design that I want Adam to do for me at some point because I think it would be possible in acrylic and maybe impossible in glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2nhle January 21, 2014 Share January 21, 2014 Thank for sharing. Great pictures. Good information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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