Finnex Titanium Heater.........any good?

[DaveS]

I still want the heater setup from my favorite build thread: http://wamas.org/forums/topic/18747-dandy7200s-400g-sps-tank/?do=findComment&comment=162199 .

 

Maybe the guys at Avast can replicate it.

[Der ABT]

that is such a good idea...almost no way to run them dry...

[ctenophore]

We talk about building those manifolds every year around this time but we never do it.  I have a few 1" compression fittings sitting here that were intended to be used as heater-holding magnet mounts but again, haven't gotten around to building them.  The biggest problem I see with them is that using them as magnet mount heater holders (the idea being to keep the cord potting out of the water so it can't leak and fail) is that the ebo-jagers which I prefer are too long for most sumps to sit upright, or even at an angle.  Then, the idea of the manifold is nice but you do need to be aware of the possibility of the heaters being left on if the pump is off, resulting in super hot water inside the PVC.  So an intelligent control system is needed, almost a flow sensor with relay cutoff for the heaters if flow stops.  Of course that isn't terribly hard but turns the idea from a few $tens to a few $hundreds very quickly.

[Origami]

Marcos - Take a look at Dan's old build thread here.  He made a nice little heater thingy for his:

 

http://wamas.org/forums/topic/18747-dandy7200s-400g-sps-tank/

Are you talking about his using probe / cable glands and a PVC flow-through design to keep the glass envelope in the water but the sealed top end out? If so, I remember that and have thought about doing something similar for a while. One thing to be thoughtful of is air entrapment. Make sure that air can't become trapped and isolate the heater.

 

For some reason, I think that BeanAnimal has probe/cable glands on the side of his sump that he pushes the heater envelope through.

 

In some heater failures, it seemed that the top of the heater fails. That is, the seam where the glass and plastic are sealed together allows water in resulting in heater failure, sometimes explosively. This happened, for example, with the Stealth Pro line of heaters. This kind of failure can be mitigated by not completely submerging the heater, but by keeping the control top above the water line. That's the approach that BeanAnimal has taken, I think. Copps, on the other hand, has a built in heater holder in his sump design that holds the heater envelope in the water but keeps the control top dry.

 

Still another set of failures involve the bimetallic strip sticking because of arcing at the contacts. This cheap implementation of a thermostat can cause the contacts to stick (resulting in a heater that's stuck on) or sometimes they become so carbonized that they don't make contact (heater stuck off). The way that many of us deal with it is to set the thermostat on the heater slightly higher than where we want the tank temperature to be (this keeps the contacts "on" without arcing) and to use an external thermostat to turn the heater on and off.

[AlanM]

Would some of this work if plugged into an Apex?

 

http://www.briskheat.com/p-327-ctl-cut-to-length-silicone-rubber-heating-tapes.aspx

 

wrap it around the return PVC piping with insulation around it.  If you're using 1" PVC as the return pipe, that's 4" circumference.  One foot of this stuff has about 12W of power, so to get up to 500W you'd need 125 wraps around the pipe or much fewer if you spiral it.  It's 1" wide, so that many wraps is 10 feet or so.

[ctenophore]

I suppose an easier safety mechanism (besides accounting for air entrapment) would be to mount the thermostat's temp sensor near the input of the manifold, just upstream of the heaters, so that if flow stopped and the heaters began to overheat the water inside, it would turn off the thermostat.  That would be cheaper than a flow sensor.

[ctenophore]

Would some of this work if plugged into an Apex?

 

http://www.briskheat.com/p-327-ctl-cut-to-length-silicone-rubber-heating-tapes.aspx

 

wrap it around the return PVC piping with insulation around it.  If you're using 1" PVC as the return pipe, that's 4" circumference.  One foot of this stuff has about 12W of power, so to get up to 500W you'd need 125 wraps around the pipe or much fewer if you spiral it.  It's 1" wide, so that many wraps is 10 feet or so.

How much is that stuff?  I would use at least CPVC as it is more temp resistant than regular PVC.  You wouldn't need an Apex, just a reasonably good quality thermostat like a Ranco.

[AlanM]

How much is that stuff?  I would use at least CPVC as it is more temp resistant than regular PVC.  You wouldn't need an Apex, just a reasonably good quality thermostat like a Ranco.

 

 

Dunno, but lowes has this stuff at 5W per foot and 100feet long with a plug at the end.  Not sure if it's the stuff that has a conductive polymer in it that's self regulating or not...

 

http://www.lowes.com/pd_24490-72436-ADKS-500_0__?productId=3115537

[dandy7200]

I never had any issues with the water stuck inside the heater manifold and super heating the water.  Even if it did happen, PVC can be boiled and not melt so there is limited risk.  I had a bunch of heaters and I used the thermostats on the heaters themselves as a first line of defense.  I also had the heaters on a Ranco.  Then I had two separate temp sensors from my ACIII than monitored tank temp and sump temp (sump was outside).  Then I had a solenoid valve 2" that would shut down the flow from my sump to the tank based off the sump temperature and redirect it back through the heating-cooling-sump closed loop.  All that being far more complicated than the avg person is going to setup but none the less, it worked for me quite well. 

 

The gland holders inside 2" PVC manifold is not new nor was it my original idea.  It is Current UV's design for the UV units they sell (sold?).  I copied it pretty much exactly, except instead of bulbs inside of quartz sleeves I installed nichrome inside of pyrex

 

That manifold design I am 99.9% confident in and would be a great DIY for someone.  The 00.1% risk is simply not worth the liability for it to be produced by AVAST.  Maybe someone like Finnex and Won Brothers are more comfortable with those odds though

 

Ebo is the only heater I will ever use or suggest any one else use.  Although I have a feeling Justin is going to try and talk me into making some solid state $300 heater around this time next year, so I guess never say never......

[lnevo]

Oh well, i've been very pleased with my finnex titanium heater. Been working great for a while now, no issues.

[zygote2k]

Oh well, i've been very pleased with my finnex titanium heater. Been working great for a while now, no issues.

most heaters work great for a while with no issues until they break....

Finnex doesn't make the heater, they are a rebrander. 

Ebo Jager makes heaters.

[dmatt56]

Are the newly branded Eheim Jagers as reliable as the Ebo?

[CaptainRon]

Are the newly branded Eheim Jagers as reliable as the Ebo?

 

I'm still happy with mine. A couple purchased this past spring/summer and several purchase a year or two ago all still going strong.

[steveoutlaw]

 the idea of the manifold is nice but you do need to be aware of the possibility of the heaters being left on if the pump is off, resulting in super hot water inside the PVC.  So an intelligent control system is needed, almost a flow sensor with relay cutoff for the heaters if flow stops.  Of course that isn't terribly hard but turns the idea from a few $tens to a few $hundreds very quickly.

 

What if you were to have the PVC in the sump itself?  That way the heaters could stand upright without running dry and if the feed pump ever died you would have the sump water to dissipate some of the heat.  Plus, if you had your temp probe in the sump next to it, you could kick it off before it got too hot.  So you have a primary and a backup (thermostat and temp probe).