Where have all the cryptics gone?

[wade]

So, this is a bit of a rant.  It appears to be due to my start in the hobby some time ago and then absence while things shifted, but its as though people have moved to another of those not ideal positions:

 

Selling live rock that has nothing except time in a curing tank, eg - dry rock allowed to get wet and be colonized by bacteria.  It can work great for bypassing cycling on a tank. I get that. However, I believe it is in no way superior to real live rock, which seems to be harder and harder to find.

 

For the simple expediency of less cycling time and the potential for no nuisance species, you sacrifice diversity.

 

There are so few species that are truly problematic on real live rock (gorilla craps, some boring sponges (most don't matter), mantis shrimp and similar).  However, for every species you skip, you also skip on a few dozen other species that are critical to supporting the diverse systems we wish to achieve (polycheats, stars, bivalves, sponges, algae, forams, etc etc etc etc).  Many fish (cardinals, wrasses, blennies, mandarins, etc) require prey that naturally thrives in and on the rock.  Those prey items are gone if you start with dry rock exclusively and then the tank cannot support their survival unless you wind up feeding a ton (and hoping they are eating well).

 

It just gets under my skin when people tell you that starting with nothing but dry rock thats been wetted is best.  It most certainly is not for a fully diverse reef tank.  Not to say it isn't functional - it likely is - for many species that feed well from the water column exclusively.  But even for grazers, you limit their inputs.  It would be like a human living off of corn on the cob for the rest of their lives when they were born into or evolved into eating from the smorgasbord that is the reef.

 

I also want my live rock to serve as a cryptic filter.  Without the initial diversity, AND a reinvestment in that diversity over time (as it will decrease), there is nothing left to fill that role.

 

Just wanted to throw that out there and potentially start a conversation.

 

Enough from me. /endrant

[Origami]

Wade, I started out with Florida aquacultured rock years back. You failed to mention something that I also found exciting. The added diversity quickly translates to an observable abundance of life in your sandbed, too. I once spent hours with a high powered magnifier looking in awe at all the life there - much about the size of several grains of sand or less. Luckily, you don't have to have a tank full of such rock to introduce this diversity. Under the right conditions, you can add a few rocks and seed your tank in much the same way as adding some "real" live sand can add to a sandbed's diversity.

 

"Bad" hitchhikers that I did have to deal with and eventually cleaned out were gorilla crabs, mantis shrimps (I kept one in a separate tank, though, for years), and Caulerpa mexicana (at first it was pretty, then it got too prolific and had to be removed).

[Chad]

Overall, I agree with you.  It seems that the way of a natural and very biodiverse tank seems to be transitioning into a technology driven tank.

 

Although I agree that a tech driven tank can be successful, I feel that overall they require too much maintenance to be sustainable by hobbyists in the long-term.

 

To your point on "Live" rock being tougher to find, unfortunately I've found that true too... My best educated guess on that is LR is expensive to ship and keep all the biodiversity live, since hobbyists tend to not want it anyway (there are "pests" after all - lol), it's probably not worth it to them. 

 

That all being said, there are a few out there who still supply nice stuff, though much is Caribbean.  Like Tampa Bay Saltwater.

[trockafella]

I for one started my most recent tank with dry rock. I didn't wanna fight all the aiptasia and mojanos again.. Shocker, still ended up getting them..  The one thing I really like about dry rock is the ability to build my aquascape out of water, and its much easier to get epoxy to hold on dry rocks..  Also the fear of gorilla crap scares the H-E-double hockey sticks out of me.

[Coral Hind]

As a reefer starting out long ago it was always fun watching the life that showed up from out of the maricultured live rock. Granted it wasn't always the good stuff. The outfit I worked for in FL held the newly collected live rock in large greenhouse tubs that had octopi in them which cleaned all the crabs and mantis shrimp out. Starting out with mostly dry rock and seeding it with some maricultured rock is probably a good balance.

[wade]

 

 

Starting out with mostly dry rock and seeding it with some maricultured rock is probably a good balance.

 

This is what I have done. I was out on the town searching for live rock (the real stuff) and having no luck this weekend.  The current rockwork is a mix of dry stuff (mostly Caribsea base with some lace rock thrown in).  I am searching for some nicely growing live rock with critters to seed the entire tank.  I'm also going to try to get some sand/scum/sump debris from fellow reefers soon to help kick the tank off (trying to be selective about no nasties) as well.

 

So far there has been no sign of a cycle, but then there's nothing in there dying off yet.

[Decadence]

I have made the mistake before of buying devoid live rock which is one of the big reason that I won't buy live rock from stores anymore. I don't think that a tank without algae is a healthy tank. If I have an unforeseen rise in nutrients, I would rather an algae bloom (lock them in as organic) than have all of the inorganic nutrients free in the water.

[basser9]

The reason you dont see it is because it is bad for a sps tank.

The biofilm on that stuff is a mess when you expose it to high reef tank light.

I remember well getting the fresh rock letting it cure in the tank doing a waterchange

 then watching the bubble algae grow an hair then all the rock anemone take over......

.......no thanks.

The Florida stuff is at HOT in glenburnie it is full of EVERYTHING GOOD AND BAD.

[AlanM]

When I finally get my plumbing done, and I know it's working correctly, I'm getting live rock from TBS.  I'll post when I do and we can maybe upsize "The Package" if folks are interested in getting some of the really live stuff and want to help schlep it from the airport, but since the airline charges by the pound for shipping I'm not sure if there's a win in doing it that way.

[wade]

The reason you dont see it is because it is bad for a sps tank.

The biofilm on that stuff is a mess when you expose it to high reef tank light.

I remember well getting the fresh rock letting it cure in the tank doing a waterchange

 then watching the bubble algae grow an hair then all the rock anemone take over......

.......no thanks.

The Florida stuff is at HOT in glenburnie it is full of EVERYTHING GOOD AND BAD.

Not really sure what this is saying... or how you got to that conclusion.  I had an extremely successful sps reef tank for 7 years using a mix of Fiji and Carribean live rock that was packed with everything (arrived raw from transhipping on a plane - stank like mad).  The reality is that if you don't want something that came in on the rock, you work on eliminating it during the settling stage before packing your tank with coral.

 

Yes, valonia and gorilla crabs can suck, but they are also something you can handle if you stay on top of them.

 

I might be game for getting a small quantity of florida rock when you get to that point. I'm a firm believer in adding back diversity on a regular basis to a tank - it does decrease over time.

[zygote2k]

Back in the day we used to get "fresh" Marshall Island rock shipped wet from LA. Full of cryptics and other goodies. I believe in all my years of experience doing tanks that to start a successful reef tank, you need to have the freshest rock available.

[monkiboy]

When I finally get my plumbing done, and I know it's working correctly, I'm getting live rock from TBS.  I'll post when I do and we can maybe upsize "The Package" if folks are interested in getting some of the really live stuff and want to help schlep it from the airport, but since the airline charges by the pound for shipping I'm not sure if there's a win in doing it that way.

alan, if/when, let me know and we can get together on a purchase if it makes sense to do so. i love me some tampa bay saltwater.

[basser9]

A scoup of sand from a healthy reef or garf grunge is all you need .......period.

A tank with acid washed rock which has been bleached then

 soaked in LC is just better.

I think when you prep your rock with acid it opens the pores up and

 really allows for better nitrate control and of course the phosphate

 issue with fresh rock can be really bad thats why i think its really

 important for a SPS tank not to use fresh rock or even non prepped

 clean rock.

Sure you can have a nice tank with the fresh rock but its just less

 hassle to use a clean phosphate free rock in your tank.

30 YEARS and a dozen setups and its a world of difference

 in MY tanks if i use prepped rock .....a no brainer.

Edited May 29, 2013 by basser9

[swffan]

I remember my first tank about 12+ years ago, I went to what at one point was the Aquarium Center (I think) in Randallstown Md the day they got their shipment of live rock in.  I think I bought 30-40 pounds at $9 or $10 a pound before they even put it in their live rock holding tubs. I remember all types of things growing and coming out of the rock.  I had a tank with rock and one Damsel for many months because I was more interested to see what else was going to grow or pop out of the rock over time.  

 

All of the recent tanks I've had since then I've used dry rock with a scoop of sand and/or rock from an existing established tank.

 

This new build I am working on I am going to go back to the old method and order a few boxes of either Tonga or Fiji Rock (gets to LAX on the 12 hour flight from Fiji and to my airport terminal (BWI) within 48 hours .....total air time from Fiji to my tank.  I don't keep any SPS and there will be no high end corals in this system, just some basic stuff, But I again, am more looking forward to the rock itself. 

Edited May 29, 2013 by swffan

[basser9]

The florida stuff from HOT has some meat corals and sea squirts

 that survive.

There are alot of mantis in there stuff also.

A tank with nice rock only is a nice tank just dont confuse that with

 a full blown SPS reef.

They used to call them DUTCH tanks and they would have alot of

 different red algae in them.

Edited May 29, 2013 by basser9