YHSublime March 10, 2013 Author Share March 10, 2013 flatworms that eat coral are different than acoel or red planaria. there are very few AEFW predators that are effective in a home tank. Once you get AEFW, it's very very difficult to rid them from the tank. If you buy SPS from some of the people here, you will get AEFW because they have had them in the past and thought they got rid of them but they didn't. If anyone posts that they have AEFW, you should be real hesitant about buying acroporas or other SPS from them if you don't want the possibility of an AEFW outbreak. If you really want to go down the SPS path and you want a nice SPS tank, you need to start a real coral QT process. When you get a frag, you remove any hard bases that it came with including frag plugs. You check the coral visibly with a magnifier if necessary for any sort of critters. You dip the coral in Revive or the Bayer dip. You then put the coral into the coral QT tank for observation for X amount of days. If inspection reveals no cooties after X time period, you put it into your DT. No exceptions for anyone- even some of the best SPS guys here will tell you the same with their corals. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Well, magnifine glass and some inspection this morning, Rob's right, flatworm. did a revive dip on all 3 pieces, but where should I go from here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incredible Corals March 10, 2013 Share March 10, 2013 Did you find flat worms after the revive dip as well? You should let whoever you got them from know. They might not even know they have a problem. I would just toss them. Starting out with acros that have flat worms isnt worth the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime March 10, 2013 Author Share March 10, 2013 Is it possible that they came from my tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime March 10, 2013 Author Share March 10, 2013 Did you find flat worms after the revive dip as well? You should let whoever you got them from know. They might not even know they have a problem. I would just toss them. Starting out with acros that have flat worms isnt worth the risk. Oye. Nothing huge, but yeah. Do they affect LPS as well, or it's just SPS? Still trying to figure out what I'm dealing with here. What a shame, they are nice pieces. Doesn't the flatworm stay behind anyways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surf&turf March 10, 2013 Share March 10, 2013 The AEFW will die once you remove all the acros from your system. They do not bother LPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k March 10, 2013 Share March 10, 2013 (edited) I'd toss all of the acroporas and let whomever sold them to you know that they most likely have AEFW. Start over clean. Dipping the corals is only the start. This is why a coral QT is necessary- you can find all of the cooties that the first dip and scrub didn't get. Egg bundles and such. Look at how some of the big coral farms like ORA do their coral QT. Edited March 10, 2013 by zygote2k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime March 10, 2013 Author Share March 10, 2013 I'd toss all of the acroporas and let whomever sold them to you know that they most likely have AEFW. Start over clean. Dipping the corals is only the start. This is why a coral QT is necessary- you can find all of the cooties that the first dip and scrub didn't get. Egg bundles and such. Look at how some of the big coral farms like ORA do their coral QT. Welp. Lesson learned. So here's a question: Since this is the first set acropora I've added to the tank, even if I toss all of them, isn't it not too late to just see if I can keep them alive in the tank? I'm not planning on adding anything else for a while, and if I ever do, I can always take the time to set up a qt tank and at least give it a shot at seeing what I can do, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS March 10, 2013 Share March 10, 2013 If they really are AEFW and not regular flatworms, they will eat the acros until they are dead. You could try to dip, kill, and save those frag but they most likely wont survive. It looks Ike you have $50 worth of frags there. You'd need to decide if its worth the time and effort to try and save them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind March 10, 2013 Share March 10, 2013 Are you even sure what you have? DIp the corals and take a picture of what comes off of them for us. I'd hate to see you toss corals if it isn't really AEFW. With three weekly dips you can kill the flatworms. I wouldn't jump to tossing them myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime March 10, 2013 Author Share March 10, 2013 If they really are AEFW and not regular flatworms, they will eat the acros until they are dead. You could try to dip, kill, and save those frag but they most likely wont survive. It looks Ike you have $50 worth of frags there. You'd need to decide if its worth the time and effort to try and save them. Even if I kept them instead of throwing them out, at least there's a fighting chance. I guess what I'm trying to say is, even if I put 0% effort, it wont hurt anything else. Are you even sure what you have? DIp the corals and take a picture of what comes off of them for us. I'd hate to see you toss corals if it isn't really AEFW. With three weekly dips you can kill the flatworms. I wouldn't jump to tossing them myself. I dipped this AM, will do another dip tomorrow and see if anything else comes off. The closest thing I could identify too, based on pictures I've found online, is brown/rust flatworm. They were on the part that was bleached on the coral already, and moving up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind March 10, 2013 Share March 10, 2013 AEFW are almost colorless so if you found brown/rust colored worms I bet you have none AEFW. AEFW's will not hurt any LPS, softies, or even SPS like montipora, only acropora species of corals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime March 10, 2013 Author Share March 10, 2013 AEFW are almost colorless so if you found brown/rust colored worms I bet you have none AEFW. AEFW's will not hurt any LPS, softies, or even SPS like montipora, only acropora species of corals. Very cool, what I found was definitely dark. They have been dipped, will continue dipping, and see how it goes. I'm really hoping for the best here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind March 10, 2013 Share March 10, 2013 If they are AEFW do the dips once per week for three weeks. Look for eggs during every dip. If you see eggs cover them with superglue to kill and seal them in. After three to four weeks from the last three week dip do another dip just to make sure you got them all. The corals may lose some color and brown out during this time but they will gain it back. If they are another type of flatworm besides AEFW then try Flatworm Exit. I didn't see any of the tell tale bite marks on your corals which is why I don't think you have AEFWs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime March 10, 2013 Author Share March 10, 2013 If they are AEFW do the dips once per week for three weeks. Look for eggs during every dip. If you see eggs cover them with superglue to kill and seal them in. After three to four weeks from the last three week dip do another dip just to make sure you got them all. The corals may lose some color and brown out during this time but they will gain it back. If they are another type of flatworm besides AEFW then try Flatworm Exit. I didn't see any of the tell tale bite marks on your corals which is why I don't think you have AEFWs. Great. Thanks for the advice. I will keep this post updated as I continue through this obstacle, whatever it may be. If anything, the omniscient reminder of "QT everything that goes into your tank" was stirred up again. Thanks to everybody who has chimed in with thoughts and/or advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan March 11, 2013 Share March 11, 2013 Where did you get these corals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy March 11, 2013 Share March 11, 2013 Where did you get these corals?I'm pretty sure all the ones photographed in here are from the frag pack I gave him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan March 11, 2013 Share March 11, 2013 (edited) Red bugs - AEFW and eggs After dipping in Revive they are a little brown against a white background. Edited March 11, 2013 by Jans Natural Reef Foods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decadence March 11, 2013 Share March 11, 2013 Could see AEFW eggs in pictures of the first two corals. Flat worms are very hard to avoid but very easy to live with. I have eight wrasses in my tank and would have no issue dropping a colony full of AEFWs in without treatment. I also have red bugs... I'll get rid of them sometime soon and I never hand out frags without dipping them or warning the person that they need to be dipped. These two pests will only ruin your day if you let them. If you water conditions are otherwise perfect and you have some wrasses, you won't even notice their presence. What are you using to measure your salinity with? You calcium and alkalinity levels are both a little bit high. I would not be surprised to find that your salient is actually closer to 1.030 with those numbers. If you are checking your salinity with a swing-hydrometer, it's time to get a refractometer. If you already have one, it may be time to calibrate it. SPS are by no means hard, they just require extremely stable parameters, high light and high flow. No matter what, keeping a healthy SPS tank is going to require great investment. You are either going to invest a lot of money in equipment (controllers, heaters, chiller, calcium reactor, kalk stirrer, big skimmer, ATO, etc..), invest a lot of time in manual maintenance (water changes, dosing, testing, etc..) or some combination of the two. These two are the champions who protect my corals most actively: Draco Apollo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trockafella March 11, 2013 Share March 11, 2013 Wrasses are known to eat flatworms, but I wasnt aware they eat AEFW.... Also IMO if you knowingly have pests YOU JUST SHOULDNT BE SELLING THINGS PERIOD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy March 11, 2013 Share March 11, 2013 because i'm starting to receive rather interestingly worded messages on this topic, i'd like to state i do not have red bugs or AEFWs in my frag system where these came from. these frags/colonies were QT'd per my rather stringent protocol, and i always inspect corals day of or a couple hours before i give or sell them away with a photographer's loupe. this frag pack i gave the original poster was no exception. so before jumping to conclusions or heated words, please be reasonable and fair if you choose to reach out to me personally. the original poster and i have a good relationship and we talked it over and he's going to try to save the pieces. i do appreciate the responses in this thread about what it could be and photos of the potential problems, as i know it has helped at least a couple reefers that had questions about these little annoying critters. thank you in advance for your understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trockafella March 11, 2013 Share March 11, 2013 My above comment was to the guy who posted above me who wrote "I also have red bugs... I'll get rid of them sometime soon and I never hand out frags without dipping them or warning the person that they need to be dipped" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy March 11, 2013 Share March 11, 2013 trock* - that's the way i understood it, sir - no worries. i was politely referring to the text and pms i received. nonetheless, thank you for clarifying, isaac, do you happen to have a macro for that camera body? it'd be great to take some nice up close photos for us to see since you do have a nice camera available. or even dropping it into its "macro mode" and seeing what you are able to generate might be helpful. in the interim, how are the dips working out and have you tried bayer dips or are you sticking with revive/coralrx ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime March 11, 2013 Author Share March 11, 2013 Wow, I stepped away for a bit and things got wild! First off, I would like to let the community know that It's 100% possible I have miss diagnosed the issue. Identifying bugs in our tanks can be tricky, especially for somebody who doesn't know what they're looking for. I have let the seller know (thanks for stepping in!) and they are very serious and thorough with their QT processes. I have mentioned before that I have never dipped my corals, and I have used the crushed coral from the PO, it would be no surprise to me if I was harboring something in my tank unknowingly. With help from our members, I'm positive that the problem can be identified correctly, and fixed. Or not. I'm ready for either answer! Decadance- I have a refractometer. It's calibrated. I assure you, my salinity is correct. Jan- Thanks very much for those pictures, certainly helped a lot. What I identified was a little longer than wider, and definitely darker. I think it will be helpful once I dip again tonight to have me take some shots. Marcos- I had a late start this morning, and wasn't able to prepare a dip. I plan on first thing tonight. I don't have a macro lense, but I can drop it down to it's macro mode. Before I dip tonight, I'll do a picture, and then I'll take a pic of the water once I'm done. I'm not opposed to a bayer dip, but I bought a bottle of Revive, figured I'd make use of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decadence March 11, 2013 Share March 11, 2013 Fwiw, I do not have aefw but I have had them before and they don't stand a chance with certain wrasses in the tank. Not only will they control them, they will eventually irradicate them. I also stated that I don't sell or give away frags without either treating or advising of red bugs. I would treat my whole tank for red bugs but I have a lot of acro crabs which I would have to get out so I'm waiting for my 150 to go up so I can treat a few corals at a time as I move them over with interceptor and try to save the crabs. If you do get red bugs and they kill a colony, your conditions otherwise weren't good enough. No need to jump on anybody's case, I'm not hiding anything and I would be happy to not give you any corals if you don't want them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocko918 March 11, 2013 Share March 11, 2013 they don't stand a chance with certain wrasses in the tank. Not only will they control them, they will eventually irradicate them. IMHO this statement is completely false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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