Jan August 1, 2012 Share August 1, 2012 Please don't blow your used air in my bag of fish... There is approximately 20-21% oxygen in room air. We humans use a very small percentage of that oxygen, maybe 4-5%. When we exhale we exhale about 14-16% oxygen along with carbon dioxide. This is one of the reasons CPR, in particular rescue breathing, is as effective as it is in oxygenating persons in arrest. But this is about fish. So when you blow exhaled air from your lungs (spent air) into my new fishes bag you are actually adding more carbon dioxide and reducing the oxygen left in the bag of my new fish. Fish get stressed when they are handled, and when they are stressed they breath faster. I don't know how much more or even how much oxygen they use, but let's say their rapid respirations are double than what they usually are. Not only are they using more oxygen when they are stressed but now you've reduced the available oxygen they get at just room air when you exhaled into the bag. Less oxygen makes them stress even more. So, please don't blow your spent air into my bag of fish . Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icecool2 August 1, 2012 Share August 1, 2012 Haha. Nice point. Congressional Aquarium has an oxygen bottle at their bagging station and will fill with that if you ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind August 1, 2012 Share August 1, 2012 I think you should just bring a small oxygen bottle with you when you go to buy fish then. Or, bring the Kordon breathable bags with you, problem solved. http://www.novalek.c..._bags/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan August 1, 2012 Author Share August 1, 2012 I have to bring my own bags too? No way! I had several of those bags from a large order of macro I purchased a couple of years ago. They are very interesting. They feel a little like vinyl or rubber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan August 1, 2012 Author Share August 1, 2012 Good to know. Thank you. Haha. Nice point. Congressional Aquarium has an oxygen bottle at their bagging station and will fill with that if you ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypertech August 1, 2012 Share August 1, 2012 I just don't see how this can make that much of a difference for the 1hr trip home until they are out of the bag (or its opened) and you are starting acclimation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite August 1, 2012 Share August 1, 2012 The Man is trying to make LFSs charge the tax for the livestock bags as well as the shopping bags. I don't know if any of the shops are actually doing it though... the one I went to last week is not (that's where I got the information). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimlin August 1, 2012 Share August 1, 2012 really? Do they really expect you to bring your own bag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 August 2, 2012 Share August 2, 2012 Adding Oxygen can also impact the pH of the water, hence the reason why some package and ship without air, although really only for corals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind August 2, 2012 Share August 2, 2012 Adding Oxygen can also impact the pH of the water, hence the reason why some package and ship without air, although really only for corals... I thought the reason they ship corals without an air space is in case the bag shifts the coral is not left out of the water but always stays submerged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind August 2, 2012 Share August 2, 2012 The Man is trying to make LFSs charge the tax for the livestock bags as well as the shopping bags. I don't know if any of the shops are actually doing it though... the one I went to last week is not (that's where I got the information). I do like the general bag tax idea as a way to get people to use re-usable bags but that would push it too far for me. To me the fish bag is product packaging, no different then the plastic bag my peanuts come in. Will I soon have to pay for the plastic bags in the produce area too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind August 2, 2012 Share August 2, 2012 I just don't see how this can make that much of a difference for the 1hr trip home until they are out of the bag (or its opened) and you are starting acclimation. I agree the 1hr trip isn't that big of a deal. I see corals and fish that spend two days in shipping bags and survive. I think Jan posted it as kind of for humor and just a general something to think about thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowerseller August 2, 2012 Share August 2, 2012 plus, what if the person blowing air into the bag had really bad breath for crying out loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind August 2, 2012 Share August 2, 2012 A non sincere LFS employee blowing a bunch of hot air might also raise the water temp in the bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad August 2, 2012 Share August 2, 2012 I thought the reason they ship corals without an air space is in case the bag shifts the coral is not left out of the water but always stays submerged. I thought that was the reason too (that and coral respiration rates are slower, so the time in bag is not as likely to deplete the water of oxygen). This is a a tough one, since as with so many things, the answer is really "well, it depends..." I say that because (assuming my chemistry understanding is up to date - which I think it is) the pH change is driven by the presence of CO2 (which essentially makes carbonic acid) rather than oxygen; however, that also has the competing positive effect of changing the form of ammonia from free NH3 to to NH4+, which is less toxic than NH3. What it really comes down to for me is: how long they are going to be in the bag? If it's 1-3 hours or so, I don't care how they do it. If 3-12 hours or so, then I prefer regular air in a larger bag at 50-75% air (not blown) in the bag (resting the bag on a surface and then very quickly closing the top traps air in the bag quite well). Longer than that and there should be more O2 in the air. Just my thoughts on the subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind August 2, 2012 Share August 2, 2012 I figured you or Origami would eventually throw a post up that most of us simple people can't follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad August 2, 2012 Share August 2, 2012 Hah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Weaver August 2, 2012 Share August 2, 2012 (edited) plus, what if the person blowing air into the bag had really bad breath for crying out loud. They say garlic entices fish to eat.... It's all part of the acclimation process. Edited August 2, 2012 by Marc Weaver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami August 2, 2012 Share August 2, 2012 I figured you or Origami would eventually throw a post up that most of us simple people can't follow. Have a shot of vodka before blowing into the bag and get a little carbon dosing while you're at it. Corals in a plastic bag, if in the dark, respire. Biologically that means they're breathing like you and me. Oxygen in, carbon dioxide out. That's why the pH in your tank drops during the night cycle: Everything, including plants are respiring. Thus, a bag in transit slowly becomes more acidic (that is, the pH drops). Waste products are released, including ammonia (NH3). In the lowered pH, though, a lot of the ammonia is rapidly ionized to a less-toxic ammonium form (NH4+). Many retailers (including BRK, I'm pretty sure) top off a fish bag with oxygen. This is for the fish - they need to breath and this gives them an extra reserve of oxygen. For SPS and many corals, they're normally not bagged with air. I've always thought that this was just to make sure they stay underwater. I never thought it was any more complicated than that. Also, for corals, there's just so little tissue that needs to be kept alive that I don't think it's necessary to take the same precautions as with a much, much larger fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country August 2, 2012 Share August 2, 2012 Brings back memories of working in pet shops years ago during and right after college, last one being in the late 80's, used to bag the fish up and blow in the bags all of the time. Of course almost all of the fish at that time were freshwater fish. First time I bought a fish and saw the salesperson spread the bag out and then grab it real fast to keep the air in I remember thinking that it was strange and why didn't they just blow in the bag. Funny sometimes how things have changed in our hobby over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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