Cyanobacteria is out of control: Recommend Product?

[cabrego]

Hi all,

 

My tank is has been doing pretty well over the last year or so. It is a mixed reef with a medium load, 90g 30g active sump, pair of clowns, pb tang, yellow tang, 6line, blenny, with some corals. The system seems well balanced when I measure the parameters:

 

nitrate is 0

ammonia is 0

nitrite is 0

phosphate looks close to 0 hard to tell

I was out of town quite a bit and the calcium and alk dropped to 360 and 6 but over the last month I have raised the levels to

cal 400

dkh 9

 

usually run carbon and been running gfo for the last 4 weeks.

 

 

Over the last 3 or 4 months I have watched cyano creep into my system and now it has gotten a bit out of control and covers most of my rock and some of my sand-it seems to stay mostly off of my corals for the most part. I also noticed that over the last 4 to 6 weeks my cheato has not grown much. Before, in two weeks my sump was over flowing in cheato, now it is living but has not really grown in the last few weeks.

 

I feed very heavily and hardly ever do water changes, I have probably done one water change in the last 3 months. I replenished trace elements with brightwell products, purple up, etc. I guess i broke every rule in the book this time..but everything was thriving, especially the cyano (unfortunately).

 

Syphoning out the red stuff is just going to take to much time to do daily- it is that bad.

I think I am at the point of needing some sort of product. What is the best to use? I need it to be reef safe, coral safe, invert safe, etc.

Edited April 16, 2010 by cabrego

[onux20]

C'mon Man!

 

Sounds like you just need to improve your maintenance schedule. You know what the problem is...heavy feedng, infrequent water changes. Improve just one of those and you should see an improvement, with no chemicals. Improve both and your are golden!

 

Ron

[lhcorals]

When i had a out break of Cyano i used Chemiclean Red Slime Remover. It took care of it for me.

[gmubeach]

More water changes and get a korlina to blow it around it won't settle in high flow areas!

[cabrego]

C'mon Man!

 

Sounds like you just need to improve your maintenance schedule. You know what the problem is...heavy feedng, infrequent water changes. Improve just one of those and you should see an improvement, with no chemicals. Improve both and your are golden!

 

Ron

Yeah, I think you are right and I guess I am now convinced that I do need to do water changes at least once every 2 months To top it off my skimmer wasn't pulling much gunk out. So, I suppose it was just a matter of time before the docs caught up to me.

 

When i had a out break of Cyano i used Chemiclean Red Slime Remover. It took care of it for me.

did chemiclean bother your corals? or inverts?

[cabrego]

More water changes and get a korlina to blow it around it won't settle in high flow areas!

i have a k4, k3, and 2 modded maxi. I usually just run one because the second one is too much.

[gmubeach]

wow thats soo wierd it must be eating something viroiusly I had a nano and with a nano korlina I cleaned it up fast as fast can be!

[lhcorals]

Yeah, I think you are right and I guess I am now convinced that I do need to do water changes at least once every 2 months To top it off my skimmer wasn't pulling much gunk out. So, I suppose it was just a matter of time before the docs caught up to me.

 

 

did chemiclean bother your corals? or inverts?

 

 

Did not bother inverts at all. Only coral it bothered was the Pink Poccillipora. It did not have polyp exstension for a couple of days. You can not run your skimmer if you add this. I also started doing (2) 15 Gal water changes a week to keep better H2O parameters.

[zygote2k]

regular water changes is the answer to your cyano. various elements were used up by the chaeto and now that it's dying, the cyano is eating it up and flourishing.

[cabrego]

regular water changes is the answer to your cyano. various elements were used up by the chaeto and now that it's dying, the cyano is eating it up and flourishing.

So is your logic, do regular water changes>replenish various trace elements>cheato will stop dying>cyano stops living? You don't think the cyano is out competing the cheato for nutrients?

 

I think you are right that more frequent water changes is probably the long term solution, but I think it is more likely due to removal of DOCs.

[Novi]

Going thru it myself right now. I think I may have brought some of it into my tank on some frags I got recently... I readjusted my MP40's and moved some rockwork around to maximize flow in the tank. I am also running some rowaphos and am keeping my lights off for 48 hours. If I still have it I will use the Chemiclean.

[treesprite]

What about lighting? Are your bulbs getting old?

[droyal1110]

I was in the same boat as you, I resorted to Boyd's Chemiclean. I just made a bunch of saltwater at the start of the journey; I siphoned off the large chunks using a small diameter line hooked up to a bucket to avoid having to do an instant water change (maybe pulled out a quarter of a gallon in the end) shut off the skimmer, dosed about half recommended, let it marinate for the designated time (I think 48 hours) and it worked! I did a water change, siphoned off any chunks that may have been left, cut the skimmer back on (low! Chemiclean makes it go nuts) and have been good since. I didn't remove any of my inverts, anemones, corals, fish, nothing was harmed in the dosing. However I did invest in an air pump and some good air stones and ran it in the tank to help keep it extra aerated (don't know why but the directions say you need to so I did.)

 

Definitely change the bulbs if they are going bad, just because you don't have any bad phosphates doesn't mean they aren't there. It just means something could be producing it and something could be consuming it (cyano or types of algae) before it can be detected. Also just do a 50% water change over a 2 day span, preferably after you are done dosing chemiclean. Good luck!

[treesprite]

Meant to say that some of the chemicals may be antibacterial (kill cyano because cyano is a bacteria), meaning that they can kill off ALL bacteria including the ones you need for nitrification. Using a chemical could possibly throw you into a cycle. If you use a DSB, such a thing could destroy the bacteria living in it, thereby rendering it useless.

[zygote2k]

Doesn't your skimmer remove the DOC's? Maybe you are starving the chaeto and whatever is left over after the skimmer removes everything is enough to make the cyano flourish. Since you don't do w/c, you basically have a closed system, and it sounds like an important element(s) has been used up. You might be adding fuel to the fire by using a chemical to eradicate the cyano. I've used Chemiclean in the past, but I really don't recommend the use of it or any other chemical treatment because there are too many things that can go wrong.

W/C is the easy answer, it'll only cost you some time and a few cups of salt.

[Brian Ward]

Skimmer will only remove a portion of the DOCs. Improve your water change schedule, increase it to 10%-20% every 2 weeks. Reduce the amount you're feeding or make a habit to use a net and remove the excess after about 5 minutes. Remove the cyano by siphoning when you do your water changes. You won't need to do trace element replacement because your water changes will take care of that. After about 6-8 weeks, if you still have cyano problems, pull the rocks and scrub them. Once the cyano is out of the system and your nutrient levels are under control, your chaeto will start growing again. We've all gone through it, but you've already diagnosed the problem - heavy feeding and no water changes.

[bshriver]

Don't forget the old lights. As lights color shift from blue to red, cyano does better and coral does worse. Cyano prefers the red spectrum. I have replaced bulbs, cleaned my tunze and gotten rid of cyano problems in the past.

 

And a random article on dealing with cayno

 

http://www.reeftime.com/reef-articles/reef-health/cyanobacteria-red-slime-algae/48.htm

[ctenophore]

Careful with chemiclean, it is simply erithromycin which will kill the cyano. I've used it a long time ago and it worked well, but you're treating the symptom and not the problem. The sudden death of all that bacteria can cause dissolved O2 levels to drop and wipe out your tank if not careful. I killed a tank this way once, learned the hard way after using it successfully before that.

 

I agree that more regular water changes to decrease unskimmable DOC would be your best course- don't try to rely on a "silver bullet" to take the place of good husbandry!

 

FWIW, I am dealing with some form of cyano outbreak too, although mine is a chunky yellow & brown variety. I just got my ozone reactor online which I am hoping will help break down unskimmable DOC into compounds either skimmable or consumable by organisms other than cyano. I attribute my outbreak to the greatly increased fish/feeding load in my greenhouse over the past few months. I have an auto water change system that is helping as well.

[cabrego]

Thanks for the great responses!

 

I will try to hit on all the questions asked.

 

Light bulbs- I just replaced the MH a couple of months ago (albeit with the ebay bulbs but I did have the issue before I replaced them). Last week I also replaced the 65 watt actinic, I will tell you that was one of the best things I have done in a while for my tank. Those old pc actinics were ancient! Night and day difference!

 

With respect to DOCs, at one point I was feeding my breeding clowns (and the rest of my tank) frozen food every day and pellets twice a day on top of that. I figured I was Ok since my nitrates are always at zero and everything appears to be growing pretty fine. My skimmer has been slacking over the last couple of months, I have now readjusted it and it is actually doing a decent job now, it appears I will be getting a cup every couple of days. I hope to see some improvement because of this, I will also do around a 10% this weekend. I also have an army of sand sifting detrivores coming so I hope that will help some too.

 

With respect to dosing trace elements, since I was not doing water changesI was only dosing to replenish trace elements . I really despise water changes and my logic was.."if the only purpose of water changes is to replenish trace elements and reduce nitrates" then because I do not have nitrates i will just repelenish manually.

 

I do realize that any quick fix, such as using chemiclean, is exactly that-a "band aid". But boys and girls my tank is bleeding right now! I am trying to resist temptation! I think I will try to hold out longer if i can!

[cabrego]

Another quick note-

 

 

I have some filmy cob webby looking stuff on some of my rocks too. I am not sure wwhat it is but it is white and looks like a spider web of sorts, any ideas if this is related?

[cabrego]

Careful with chemiclean, it is simply erithromycin which will kill the cyano. I've used it a long time ago and it worked well, but you're treating the symptom and not the problem. The sudden death of all that bacteria can cause dissolved O2 levels to drop and wipe out your tank if not careful. I killed a tank this way once, learned the hard way after using it successfully before that.

 

I agree that more regular water changes to decrease unskimmable DOC would be your best course- don't try to rely on a "silver bullet" to take the place of good husbandry!

 

FWIW, I am dealing with some form of cyano outbreak too, although mine is a chunky yellow & brown variety. I just got my ozone reactor online which I am hoping will help break down unskimmable DOC into compounds either skimmable or consumable by organisms other than cyano. I attribute my outbreak to the greatly increased fish/feeding load in my greenhouse over the past few months. I have an auto water change system that is helping as well.

 

Contains no phosphates, algacides or Erythromycin succinate. Avoid prolonged skin contact. Keep away from children. Do not ingest. ChemiClean Net Weight: 2 grams.

This was taken from this ad about chemiclean

http://www.marvelousproducts.com/Chemiclean-Red-Slime-Algae-Remover-p/chemiclean.htm

 

is that the same stuff your talking about?

[dbartco]

If you want, I have some Chemiclean you can have I can bring to the social if you are going. Again, use with caution like justin said, but you can have.

[ctenophore]

Contains no phosphates, algacides or Erythromycin succinate. Avoid prolonged skin contact. Keep away from children. Do not ingest. ChemiClean Net Weight: 2 grams.

This was taken from this ad about chemiclean

http://www.marvelousproducts.com/Chemiclean-Red-Slime-Algae-Remover-p/chemiclean.htm

 

is that the same stuff your talking about?

Whoops, I must have been thinking of the Ultralife stuff, which is erithromycin. Still, the effects are the same- that many dead cells in your system can fuel a secondary bacterial bloom which depletes O2 very rapidly. Might be worth a go just to knock down the cyano, but you'll need to follow up with better water quality to keep it away long term.

[paul b]

I have used ChemiClean dozens of times and never had anything bad happen. I even spoke to the manufacturer and told him that it is the only product that does exactly what it claims and does not hurt anything else. It is great stuff but a little expensive.

If cyano gets out of hand, use it. Light bulbs, water changes, water movement will not clear up a bad cyano infestation. First use Chemi Clean then do those other things. I used to add the stuff all the time.

I have not used it in a few years but if I needed it, I would use it in a minute.

If you are afraid of chemicals you would not use ASW, (which is all chemicals) and all of the other additives we add which are all chemicals.

"Red Slime Remover" is a different product which also works but that is Erthromycin.

Chemi Clean is not.

[sdah0414]

UltraLife Red Slime Remover

http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4121

 

"Red Slime Remover does not contain algaecides or erythromycin succonate"

I've used it before and it works like a charm. Never bothered any corals or fish.