Pimped Out Aquariums (NAGA)

[DEEPBLUE]

Sean,

 

How big is your tank? Do you have any pics?

[SeanCallan]

Sean, I wasn't disputing your claim, just commenting on the last comment about an example of Jeff's work. Please do not bring me into your battle here, I want things to work out for you but saying things like "even you warned me" is putting words in my mouth, what I distinctly remember telling you was positive reviews about Jeff and as a matter fact it was the same time he built my custom water changing tanks which came out great. No offense bro but I disagree with you on this concerning Jeff's work. He has built me more than 5 tanks for me in the past and each and every one of them has come out beautiful. One thing I will add is that I have and never will place a time frame on work done, rushing jobs only produces sub quality products. even for my simple sump designs I give Jeff a month before I even send him an email. Most times I let him do his thing and let him call me whenever its done.

 

I'm not trying to bring you into this and I was in the process of editing my post to clarify. You yourself said Jeff builds great tanks but they take time and it will eventually be done.

 

I'm not trying to be rude Josh, but you don't seem to understand the it was Jeff himself who suggested we sign a contract for everything to be completed in 2 weeks. I didn't set this timeline myself, it was Jeff's decision. As a business owner you don't set timelines you cannot make.

 

You are welcome to disagree with me and you're welcome to create your own thread in praise of Jeff. If you have nothing else to contribute then please refrain from posting here. I don't want to turn this thread into me defending myself against Jeff's minions.

 

I gain nothing from trying to make a "big hoopla" but I have been wronged and Jeff never cared.

Edited December 5, 2008 by SeanCallan

[SeanCallan]

Sean,

 

How big is your tank? Do you have any pics?

 

34x30x20

 

http://www.wamas.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=25740

 

All the pictures are taken with my iPhone so they're not great. That's why I was suggesting someone with a better quality camera come over and photograph the tank. That way everyone is able to make their own conclusion as to the quality of Jeff's work.

[yauger]

You are welcome to disagree with me and you're welcome to create your own thread in praise of Jeff. If you have nothing else to contribute then please refrain from posting here. I don't want to turn this thread into me defending myself against Jeff's minions.

 

Sean, try to clam down a bit. No need to call me "Jeff's Minion", I didn't dispute your claim that your tank is not up to standards. Nor am I in the dark about some of Jeff's mistakes, however I do think if your eventual goal is to have your "dream" system up and running this is not the way to do it. Now to tell me not to post here and give my opinion about the experiences of my dealings with Jeff is ridiculous. If that was the case then why bother to start this thread? Now since you have met me you know I'm not about to get in the middle of this situation but I would like others to hear both sides of the spectrum concerning Jeff.

Cheers

[flowerseller]

Keep it honorable and take the high road gang.

[SeanCallan]

Sean, try to clam down a bit. No need to call me "Jeff's Minion", I didn't dispute your claim that your tank is not up to standards. Nor am I in the dark about some of Jeff's mistakes, however I do think if your eventual goal is to have your "dream" system up and running this is not the way to do it. Now to tell me not to post here and give my opinion about the experiences of my dealings with Jeff is ridiculous. If that was the case then why bother to start this thread? Now since you have met me you know I'm not about to get in the middle of this situation but I would like others to hear both sides of the spectrum concerning Jeff.

Cheers

 

 

Hi Josh,

 

You can't imagine how calm I actually am. I'm not upset, I know that I will resolve this with or without Jeff's assistance.

 

This particular thread is about my experience with Jeff and the nightmares that have ensued. I'm not calling you Jeff's only minion, I know Jeff and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find he was contacting people about the post.

 

Josh, you keep saying you're not trying to get in the middle but your posts convey a much different message at least to me. You and Jeff are buds and I'm glad things have worked out for you I wish I could be in the same boat as you. But unfortunately I am not.

 

I opened this thread so that people would be aware of the situation that Jeff has put me in. I'd like to keep the thread on topic with the original post. If you have an objection to that you are welcome to contact an Officer or a moderator, I promise I won't be upset. You have to do what you have to do.

 

I'd be interested to hear your suggestions on how I can achieve the tank I want while perpetually waiting on Jeff and tooth aches, birthday parties, and the rest of his excuses to rid himself of responsibility. At what point do I, the paying customer, get the satisfaction of enjoying my tank?

Edited December 5, 2008 by SeanCallan

[yauger]

Hi Josh,

 

You can't imagine how calm I actually am. I'm not upset, I know that I will resolve this with or without Jeff's assistance.

 

This particular thread is about my experience with Jeff and the nightmares that have ensued. I'm not calling you Jeff's only minion, I know Jeff and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find he was contacting people about the post.

 

Josh, you keep saying you're not trying to get in the middle but your posts convey a much different message at least to me. You and Jeff are buds and I'm glad things have worked out for you I wish I could be in the same boat as you. But unfortunately I am not.

 

I opened this thread so that people would be aware of the situation that Jeff has put me in. I'd like to keep the thread on topic with the original post. If you have an objection to that you are welcome to contact an Officer or a moderator, I promise I won't be upset. You have to do what you have to do.

 

I'd be interested to hear your suggestions on how I can achieve the tank I want while perpetually waiting on Jeff and tooth aches, birthday parties, and the rest of his excuses to rid himself of responsibility.

 

no need broski, just understand that since you open up a thread doesn't mean you can dictate who can or cannot post also control what they say. If a comment is not a personal attack, members have the right to post if they so choose. my original intentions were not to get in the middle of your argument with Jeff, all I did was post a comment that the latest TOTM winner is a NAGA creation. thats all... your comments in regards to me is what drives this conversation bro.

[WallyBackm]

I'm not trying to take sides here, but pictures would help. I would recommend taking pictures documenting what you consider faulty workmanship before opening up on the worker. Otherwise things quickly devolve into a he-said, she-said, which is what has happened here.

[gsedlack]

To me, reading thru your dedicated tank thread tells a different story than what you claim in this thread.

[SeanCallan]

no need broski, just understand that since you open up a thread doesn't mean you can dictate who can or cannot post also control what they say. If a comment is not a personal attack, members have the right to post if they so choose. my original intentions were not to get in the middle of your argument with Jeff, all I did was post a comment that the latest TOTM winner is a NAGA creation. thats all... your comments in regards to me is what drives this conversation bro.

 

I'm sorry you feel that I'm driving this exchange. My response was to your comments about rushing the build.

 

 

I'm not trying to take sides here, but pictures would help. I would recommend taking pictures documenting what you consider faulty workmanship before opening up on the worker. Otherwise things quickly devolve into a he-said, she-said, which is what has happened here.

 

I agree. But at this point I am without other options, I have done everything I can possibly do besides showing up at Jeff's house to get answers. I've already talked to a couple of members who have cameras who may be willing to help me document it.

[SeanCallan]

To me, reading thru your dedicated tank thread tells a different story than what you claim in this thread.

 

It does, because I was trying to keep the issues I've been having with Jeff private in the hopes that he would resolve them. I downplayed the leaks in my tank and everything else because I was hoping Jeff would hold up his end of the agreement and correct the issues.

 

At this time he still has not and I was left with few options. I never set out to bash Jeff, but Jeff has showed a complete disregard for the issues I have with the tank. I started this tank batting for Jeff in the hopes that he would do an awesome tank and I could brag about his work and help him out by generating him business. I wrote most of the things off as a one-time ordeal but from the PMs I've received it appears that I am not the only one who has these issues.

[MisterTang]

You will need clear photos. It will also help if you have a call log of every time you called him, and a written log of when you talked to him in person.

 

Once again: not taking sides, just making sure that if you so choose, you can easily navigate the process.

Edited December 5, 2008 by MisterTang

[SeanCallan]

You will need clear photos. It will also help if you have a call log of every time you called him, and a written log of when you talked to him in person.

 

Once again: not taking sides, just making sure that if you so choose, you can easily navigate the process.

 

 

Thanks MisterTang. I already have copies of my emails with Jeff, the contract, and phone logs printed off and put away.

 

Jeff has emailed me that he only intends to install a new carbon bin and a timer on the ball valve but does not intend to address the unfinished edges of the tank. He has no intention of apologizing for being unprofessional about this matter and continues to point the finger at me being "hot headed."

 

As per usual Jeff has put the blame for hanging up on my phone call on his daughter. It seems now that everyone is to blame except Jeff.

 

Oh well, I've told Jeff since he does not wish to refund a percentage of the funds so I can find another builder to make the repairs I will be taking him to court not only for failing to fulfill the contract in a reasonable timeframe but for the damage he did to the carpets in my apartment.

 

This was an avenue I was trying to avoid but Jeff has shown no desire to remedy the situation. I no longer want to wait for him to find time to make the repairs himself, I suggested he find another contractor which he was against. I am simply left with no other option.

[SeanCallan]

I decided this morning to take some rough shots with my iphone so people would have some kind of reference to what I'm talking about.

 

This picture just illustrates how the tank is leaning forward. The water comes up the edge a little bit, if the overflow were to clog it even a little would almost immediately be on the living room floor.

 

This is a long shot of the scratches that are present around the edges of the tank

 

Heres a close up of the scratches, you can see that they're rough and that the router blade scratches the main viewing pane as well. Jeff himself said he had planned to sand the tank and buff it but he ran out of time. Now that he is on the hot seat he has changed his tune to "industry standard". I've seen other acrylic tanks and this is NOT industry standard with the other manufacturers.

 

One of the more serious concerns, these air bubbles are in the bottom seem. Air bubbles can be found in a number of the seems throughout the tank. I only hope this doesn't mean even better leaks down the road.

 

Still waiting on someone with a better camera to come and get more detailed photos.

Edited December 6, 2008 by SeanCallan

[phisigs79]

Looks like you have every reason to be pissed off. Those edges are not industry standard and i would worry about those huge bubbles too. How have you come to the conclusion that the stand isnt leveled though? Since its sitting on carpet you have to shim it to where its level regardless. Its a easy fix but the tank doesnt look like its a finished product. The water storage container and sump i have seen NAGA make have those same unfinished edges (which is fine for what they are used for). Definetley not a display edge by any means. Good luck and hopefully you guys can work things out. I have a frag tank made by NAGA and mine is great. Sometimes with custom tanks though you have to understand that things happen and in this hobby things dont happen over night. I have meet Jeff a few times and he is a nice guy. Sometimes misunderstandings happen and get out of control. I believe this is what happened here but thats me looking in. Good luck guys!

Edited December 7, 2008 by phisigs79

[johnnybv]

man, Jeff has done some really great work in the past for me, but this not so good......maybe a rush job for him? Hope its gets worked out, I know times are tough for everyone and you cant repay to have it fixed, and Jeff cant go in the hole to make it right.....there has to be a way to make this a win win, come on guys, talk it out, it can be resolved and lawyers is not a good route......$$$

[dschflier]

I agree with John. Now maybe some steam is blown out. It sucks any way you look at it, but trying one last time to make it work I dont think would be a bad thing. Good luck guys

[reefhunter]

I think everyone in WAMAS wants this to end in a good way. I personally think this thing has gone out of control and your two personalities crashed as a result. I have mixed feelings about posts like this... 1. Waste of time. 2. Vendor feedback is important.

 

I am going to have a custom sump built eventually and I will give the business to Jeff. Why? Because as a small business "operator" I am aware of how "*@ happens". Also, I know how hard it is to operate a small business... and Jeff's business is a small operation.

 

I have only ever had one client as mad as Sean and I wasn't able to do anything to satisfy him.... it ended up on my insurance in the end... after over a year of sending letters, exchanging phone calls and ALOT of stress... at least the client got what he wanted (most of it) and I dont ever have to hear from him again (and he is not running around bashing my business). However, that was a $15,000.00 mistake by my employee... this issue seems like it can be resolved alot easier....

 

I mean, honestly, how much does the acrylic cost to remanufacture the tank? A few hundred dollars and some time... I am sure that is not worth the stress NAGA is under right now because of this thread. Or, for that matter, the business that gets chased away by this post.

 

If I was going to have my dream tank built I would think twice because of these threads. On the other hand, a few meetings ago when Jeff brought a sump and tank to the meeting they looked awesome. I wanted one bad.

 

Sean, this sucks for you. I would post on this thread what your expectations are to resolve the issue... and I think that if they are reasonable (level the tank, polish out the scratches, fix the carpet, etc) that Jeff should try to make it happen for you. If they are unreasonable (build me a new 500 gallon tank and fly it to me in a helicopter) then you will probably have to deal with this the hard, long way. I am sure you are both sick of each other but for the good of WAMAS you guys should resolve these issues diplomatically.

 

Remember that when you log off WAMAS and go to your work they are totally unrelated. Jeff's business is directly affected by this post and it IS negatively affecting his business. You have every right to post (you feel people should know about this to avoid similar situations) but remember that this man needs to eat and pay his bills at the end of the day... a VERY large part of him being able to do so is the sales he gets off of WAMAS.

 

Anyway... thats my thoughts on the matter...

[reefmontalvo]

man, Jeff has done some really great work in the past for me, but this not so good......maybe a rush job for him? Hope its gets worked out, I know times are tough for everyone and you cant repay to have it fixed, and Jeff cant go in the hole to make it right.....there has to be a way to make this a win win, come on guys, talk it out, it can be resolved and lawyers is not a good route......$$$

 

 

Johnny brings up a great point if you get lawyers involved you

[stevearlen]

I'm hearing that folks (more often in the past) have had good experiences with NAGA but I'm also seeing a more recent pattern where TOO many folks have had bad or at least questionable experiences. This is very unfortunate.

 

...I have only ever had one client as mad as Sean .....

I'm wondering how many small business folks have treated a client like this:

http://www.wamas.org/forums/index.php?s=&a...st&p=213999

 

...Sean, this sucks for you. I would post on this thread what your expectations are to resolve the issue... and I think that if they are reasonable (level the tank, polish out the scratches, fix the carpet, etc) that Jeff should try to make it happen for you...

This proposed solution (and NAGA) would have more credibility if NAGA had made good on other issues such as the bounced checks from 9 months ago.. Three months ago, in a post on the bounced check thread ( http://www.wamas.org/forums/index.php?s=&a...st&p=214093 ), NAGA said "I clearly owe Art the money and I have little excuse for having bounced a check other than it was not intentional. I will make Art whole in this matter and hope to do this very soon. He has been more than patient..."

 

I'm (1) concerned about and (2) support small business but ...

I also (1) reserve the right to take my business elsewhere and (2) hold a business (large or small) accountable when they have a pattern of poor performance or failure to deliver.

 

Steve

Edited December 7, 2008 by stevearlen

[SeanCallan]

Hey Guy,

 

Definitely a lot of great feedback and I'm considering a number of alternatives. I intend to keep everyone posted as to the developments of the tank. As of this morning there is another leak in the plumbing of the tank.

 

 

Jeff has repeatedly told me he has built a replica of this tank. A solution that I am willing to accept to resolve this matter is Jeff delivering a brand new tank that hasn't been patched to fix his leaks. The tank needs to be drilled to my ORIGINAL design. He needs to polish and finish it completely and ensure it's leak free before he delivers it.

 

He can have 2-3 months to do it, I'll set the current one up and upon delivery of the second one I will transfer everything over and he can have the other tank back.

 

Input?

[L8 2 RISE]

I think that's a great and very generous plan. This could make it work for both of you if it is stuck to.

[lhcorals]

Hey Guy,

 

Definitely a lot of great feedback and I'm considering a number of alternatives. I intend to keep everyone posted as to the developments of the tank. As of this morning there is another leak in the plumbing of the tank.

 

 

Jeff has repeatedly told me he has built a replica of this tank. A solution that I am willing to accept to resolve this matter is Jeff delivering a brand new tank that hasn't been patched to fix his leaks. The tank needs to be drilled to my ORIGINAL design. He needs to polish and finish it completely and ensure it's leak free before he delivers it.

 

He can have 2-3 months to do it, I'll set the current one up and upon delivery of the second one I will transfer everything over and he can have the other tank back.

 

Input?

 

 

In my opinion i think you are being more than fair. I would think to a business owner this would be a small price to pay to save face. I dont know Jeff or anything about his business but from reading this i would not call him to do business. I really hope you get your dream tank set up and enjoy it after all this mess.

[ctenophore]

Hey Guy,

 

Definitely a lot of great feedback and I'm considering a number of alternatives. I intend to keep everyone posted as to the developments of the tank. As of this morning there is another leak in the plumbing of the tank.

 

 

Jeff has repeatedly told me he has built a replica of this tank. A solution that I am willing to accept to resolve this matter is Jeff delivering a brand new tank that hasn't been patched to fix his leaks. The tank needs to be drilled to my ORIGINAL design. He needs to polish and finish it completely and ensure it's leak free before he delivers it.

 

He can have 2-3 months to do it, I'll set the current one up and upon delivery of the second one I will transfer everything over and he can have the other tank back.

 

Input?

 

Sounds like a good compromise. Good luck working things out. I agree with the folks above that getting lawyers involved is not the answer.

 

IME those shallow sewer/drain-class PVC fittings aren't great for aquarium plumbing. I used them on my big tank because the local HD/Lowes didn't have normal 2" fittings. I wish I hadn't, even though I didn't have any leaks I still don't trust the glue joints. I'm not surprised you're getting leaks with them, there is less surface area to create a good solvent weld.

[johnnybv]

IME those shallow sewer/drain-class PVC fittings aren't great for aquarium plumbing. I used them on my big tank because the local HD/Lowes didn't have normal 2" fittings. I wish I hadn't, even though I didn't have any leaks I still don't trust the glue joints. I'm not surprised you're getting leaks with them, there is less surface area to create a good solvent weld.

 

 

 

Outstanding point Justin!!! Always use the deep socket schedule 40 PVC, that stuff is designed for sewer drain lines, unpressurized, which is what our overflows are but you get 1 1/2 " to glue to with the deep sockets as opposed to 1/2" with the drain ones. Its a no brainer to ELIMINATE leaks when primed and glued properly.

John